AMAZING discussion with Iraq vets last night!!!

[StraightDope]

Oy, what a hangover! However, if I hadn't gone out last night and worked at attaining this hangover, I wouldn't have had the distinct pleasure to speak with an amazing bunch of soldiers.

Last night, as I'm sure you can imagine, was the unofficial adult observance of Halloween. Y'know, Saturday night, and all that jazz. Anyway, last night I was bar-hopping here in good old Morgantown, WV (home of West Virginia University. Go Mountaineers!) and I ended up at an establishment full of beautiful young ladies in skimpy costumes. :evilgrin: But it wasn't just attractive women who were there; also in attendance were a gaggle of soldiers from the Army National Guard. I'd say there were about 12 or 15 of them, give or take.

My brother is an Army Reservist, and an Iraq vet, so naturally, I'm always one to buy a shot or a beer for a soldier. I ordered a round of tequila (Mmmmm... Tequila!) and we raised our glasses. I never like to do a shot without toasting to something, for fear of bad fortune, so I asked the soldier nearest to me what we should toast to.

His reply, "Fuck George W. Bush!"

I was floored. I clinked glasses with him, whereupon ALL of his comrades-in-arms roared, "FUCK GEORGE W BUSH!!!"

The ENTIRE bar turned in their direction, some people cheered and clapped, and they said it again, "FUCK GEORGE W BUSH!"

As I'm sure you can imagine, I was delighted! After the commotion died down, I got to talking to the soldiers.

"Nice toast, and I couldn't agree more. Fuck the pretender to the Presidency!"

"Man, you have no idea what we went through. We were in Fallujah."

I didn't need to ask when, or what had happened. I knew. He told me anyway.

"You ever seen a body burnt from white phosphorus?"

"No."

"How about a kid who had his head crushed?"

"No."

"Have you ever had to step over dismembered limbs lying in the middle of a street?"

I had to confess that I hadn't.

"I have." He put his arm around his friend next to him. "He has." He swept his arm out, and gestured at the rest of his friends. "They all have, too. Those things are something that you can NEVER forget, they stay with you for life. Fuck George W. Bush!"

I told him about my brother. Poor kid was in that hellhole for 14 months. The war started on (Iraq time) his 20th birthday, March 19, 2003. He's a combat engineer, specifically a bridging unit. You know that GoArmy.com comercial, where they splash the pontoon bridge across a river? That's my brother's unit. During the beginning of the war, his unit was on the front line; they built the bridge across the Euphrates for the invasion of Baghdad. They and the Marine 3rd Infantry Division fought against the Republican Guard. That war was an eternity ago, however. These guys had just gotten back within the past year.

As they proceeded to tell me, the things that they saw and did had made them all realize what harm Bush has done to to America. Most of them professed that they believed in the righteousness and justness of the war before they went to fight, that they believed the President when he claimed to have their best interests, as well as the best interests of the Iraqi people, at heart. They don't believe that any longer. They saw, with their own eyes, in horrible detail, EXACTLY where Bush's best interests lie.

Blackwater. Halliburton. The oilfields around al-Basrah. Everywhere but where they should be: our brave soldiers.

Suffice it to say, this bunch of troops were as pissed as we all are at the Chimp-in-Chief. So after a good 45 minutes of conversation, I asked them if they had any political affiliation.

"Well, I'm a Republican, about half of us are Democrats, half Republicans, but I can guaran-goddamn-tee you that not one of us is voting for a Republican this time around!"

I smiled. He smiled. I ordered another round of shots. We kept talking, about things that, in my drunken reverie, escape me, though I do believe the substance of discourse 2.0 was how WVUs national championship chances are looking in light of USC's loss yesterday. As the last shot was poured, we raised our glasses once again, and this time, I didn't have to ask what we should toast to...

[NanceGreggs]

1. This was an amazing discussion ...

... and thanks for sharing it with all of us!

K & R!

[babylonsister]

2. StraightDope, what a night!!! Thank you for sharing that

heartwarming story! You made my day though I'm so sorry all these soldiers will be carrying around such horrific memories. At least they realize the cause of their misery; that's got to account for something.

Now take 2 aspirin and a nap. :hug:

[knowbody0]

3. I watched "the Ground Truth" last night

profound testimonies from those who've been there. Fountains of truths coming out.

These criminals responsible for the madness will be brought to justice IMO.

[Lars39]

4. Fuck George W. Bush!

Works with a coffee mug, too. :D

"They saw, with their own eyes, in horrible detail, EXACTLY where Bush's best interests lie.
Blackwater. Halliburton. The oilfields around al-Basrah. Everywhere but where they should be: our brave soldiers."

I can't imagine how horrible it would be to realize that in the midst of such carnage. :cry:

[StraightDope]

10. That's what struck me the most as well...

As I heard it last night, these guys had to see KBR employees in brand new, type IV body armor while they had vests from Vietnam, or no vests at all. The KBR employees make well over 100k a year, tax free if I'm not mistaken. Meanwhile, I do believe that the average combat pay salary for an E-5 is in the 30000-35000 range. :mad:

You have no idea how much anger I felt listening to these guys tell me about all of the shit that they had to go through... :cry:

Fucking Bush... sigh.

[Lars39]

23. I bet it contributes to PTSD, too...seeing the imbalance.

It's just heartbreaking. :(

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

48. The worst part of this for PTSD is multiple tours in combat

A lot of these guys have been deployed to Iraq two or three times already.

They come home for six weeks R&R and back they go. They've been separated from their families and in the case of reservists, lost their jobs.

The load these guys are carrying because of BushCo's screwed up priorities is beyond imagination.

[midnight]

60. Tax free? This I would love to find our more about.

[SeattleGirl]

38. I can DEFINITELY join in that toast. Fuck George W. Bush!!!!

:toast:

[Seabiscuit]

54. At my ripe old age I just can't imagine being in those soldiers' shoes

and having to suffer through all that and learn the long, hard way about the real Bush agenda. For me, in the comfort of my home, it was pretty easy to see through the BS propaganda way back in 2002. It seems unfathomably difficult and heartbreaking to imagine going to Iraq in uniform believing in some "mission" you've been indoctrinated into and then living through what these soldiers have suffered.

My heart goes out to them.

The part about "How about a kid who had his head crushed?" brought tears to my eyes, as I am now the happy father of a 2 year old boy.

Yet this story gives me hope that as they return they will vote against the bastids that did this to them, and drive them out of office without the need for white phosphorous.

So I too will join the toast to them: "FUCK GEORGE W. BUSH!" :toast:

[Auntie Bush]

56. I'll second that...even though I'm a lady...although you

wouldn't know it from some of my angery bush* posts.

Yeah! "FUCK GEORGE W. BUSH!" :toast: :beer:

[PaDem]

5. Please, introduce these fellas to Sean Hannity...........

afterall, he contends that he's talked to countless men and women who have served in Iraq and he has not yet talked to one.......not one....who is any way shape or form critical of our beloved leader or his administration.

[Double T]

16. bush and hannity are BOTH fucking liars.........

soo....Fuck THEM BOTH!! After hearing this first hand testimony, by people on the front lines that are experiencing and seeing one of the worst atrocities in history, IF 'YOU' support GWB,'YOU' need professional psychiatric help.

[StraightDope]

29. Please, introduce these fellas to Sean Hannity...

Oh, BELIEVE me, I'd like to. That bloviating asshat is a shade of a man compared to those honorable men with whom I had the pleasure of sharing a drink and some words last evening.

He says that all Iraq vets suck *'s cock? Think again, Insannity. I'd say that for every pro-Bush Iraq vet that I'VE met, three more hate him with an intense passion. Hannity needs to get his head out of his ass and shut the fuck up, but what are the odds of that happening?

[sakabatou]

6. Kanpai

[StraightDope]

18. I speak no Japanese...

What does, "Kanpai" mean?

[oregonjen]

25. Cheers

[sakabatou]

43. "Cheers"

[otohara]

7. Excellent News

especially the NOT voting republican part! Thanks for the story and drink plenty of fluids today, eat well and take some vitamins!

[libnnc]

8. I love reading these stories

Cheers to you and to them :toast:

[StraightDope]

31. Don't mess with Mama Harper!

God I miss that show! For some reason, whenever I see that sun dappled yard during the theme song, it always conjures up happy memories.

[progressivebydesign]

9. That's an awesome story. My heart goes out to them...

..as they try to assimilate back into normalcy at home, after witnessing that. Could people hate the republican party any more than they do at this moment? If we don't sweep the next two elections, then we'll know the fix is in.

My neighbor is a lt. colonel in the army. He is pretty damn conservative, and a career military guy. He told me the first time we met that he is doing everything in his power to keep from going to Iraq. They make it sound like all of the military is hot to get over there and fight.. they're not. They know there is no "fight" there, only a daily existence of going house to house rounding up suspects, and hoping to live another day.

Fuck George W. Bush, worst president ever. I'd love to figure out who the presidential historian was that proclaimed, early on, that Bush would be the least popular president in history... I'd like to buy him a tequila, as well.

[Cleita]

11. Don't just stop here. Spread this story far and wide in any way

that you can. This is the way we will turn this situation around is to get these stories to everyone by whatever means necessary. Once everyone knows what is really going on, the tide will turn. It happened for Vietnam.

[Coexist]

12. FUCK GEORGE W. BUSH!

:toast:

[Octafish]

78. FUCK GEORGE W BUSH!

:toast:

For all who serve and have served our nation.

[lebkuchen]

13. Rio Grande? Madelines? Black Bear?

Your report made my night. Thanks for buying them drinks.

[lebkuchen]

14. dupe

[gully]

15. Wow, very interesting straightdope. Thanks for "supporting the troops."

I hope they'll get help for dealing with the continued atrocity of this war.

[kevinbgoode]

17. On November 7, this should be the complete rallying cry

for every American as we watch the wingnut horde get routed and rooted from our government on every level !! !! !!

[lyonn]

35. This Nov. 7th vote is for our troops!

Imagine this admin. getting pissed off because CNN showed the possibility of some of our troops being shot in an enemy video and yet the atrocities described by the guys in the bar is far more devastating. Of course many here in the U.S. know what is really happening over there. The rest are ostriches.

[stepnw1f]

19. Fuck George Bush

is all I'm hearing these days.

[lyonn]

36. It's all I'm saying - well, throw in an occasional "Those bastards"

[smoogatz]

20. Boo yah!

K&R

[mediacenter]

21. Confused?

Iraq's oilfields are to the north of Baghdad They are up in the Mosul area and in the Kurdish controlled region on the Turkish border.

Basrah is south of baghdad.

[StraightDope]

22. Well...

Most of the bigger Iraqi oilfields are north of Baghdad, though some are right outside of Baghdad, some are north of Amarah, and two moderately sized ones are between al-Basrah and an-Nasiriyah.

The more you know...

[tuvor]

24. Welcome to DU, mediacenter!

[mediacenter]

28. Thank you

This is the most amazing site I have ever run across....Thanks for allowing me to be a member...:hi:

[CJCRANE]

26. I thought they were in the South too

in the Shi'ite area. That's why the Sunnis are against splitting the country in three, because most of the oil is in the Kurdish north and Shi'ite south.

On edit: however, I thought the Brits were in charge of Basrah, however it's possible there are different areas with similar names etc.

[LynnTheDem]

55. They are.

And there are US troops based in the southern area along w the Brits.

[michreject]

73. Welcome mediacenter

I was/am comfused about oil field locations myself.

[SouthernBelle82]

27. Thanks for sharing the experience

I hope those guys are okay PTSD wise. I'm sure they saw some horrible things. I've seen some pictures but I'm sure the reality is much much worse. :( Did you tell them about the Iraq and Afghanistan veterans against the war group? Too bad you couldn't tell them about that. I hope they don't have to go back over there. Nice toast too. :)

[OffWithTheirHeads]

30. That will be my toast from now on.

I love it.

[file83]

34. I don't usually go out drinking...but I might start just to make that toast...

:toast:

"Fuck George W. Bush!!"

:toast:

[johnnie]

32. K&R #20

Great story. I can relate a few of these myself. I have a friend who is from the south and they all loved bush, her son went to Iraq and when he came back he asked her to ask me how we can get bush out of office. He said that everyone he was there with thought the same thing.

I'm surprised the librul media isn't jumping all over this. :eyes:

[judaspriestess]

33. amazing

you know, one of the talking points of late, which O'lielly is spewing is that "We made a mistake" going to "war" with Iraq BUT dems are not allowed to say they made a mistake, they get raked through the coals if they say they made a mistake. Its ok for the pukes to say it. I am glad to hear they are not voting republican.

and to the people who do, Fuck you too!!!

[bobbolink]

37. It's too bad people have to go through such hell before they

can see and understand reality.

It's too bad people have to go through such hell before they understand that war is, indeed, hell. And very ugly.

That's why I have such little hope left. The next generation will most likely be "Rah, Rah!" for war, also, until/unless they have the same experiences!

Please, do me a favor... ask these new friends of yours to speak up LOUD AND CLEAR to young people! Ask them to speak at high schools, especially, but maybe also to colleges!! I'm very serious about this. Yes, they have already done their duty, and they should have the right to rest now, but.. DAMN IT! none of the rest of us can get through to young kids like they can. If they truly want the next generation to not suffer like they have, they're going to have to SHOUT to them exactly what it is that war is. SHOUT!!

I hope you can hear what I'm saying, and I hope they will understand the burden they now have to prevent this from happening again!

Thank you for being there for them. :patriot:

[democrank]

39. Bless these soldiers.

Glad they made it out alive.

[shadowknows69]

40. Great story

Confirms a lot of what I've been hearing from vets too.

[The Straight Story]

41. Pfffft...WVU's national championship chances...OSU would smoke em.

And a kick for a cool thread that gives us all some hope!

[StraightDope]

42. The way that things are shaping up...

OSU will get a crack at beating WVU in the national championship game.

I gotta say, that's gonna be one hell of a good game.

Steve Slaton is the MAN!

[michreject]

74. I don't think so

Are you forgetting about "That team up north?"

[StraightDope]

81. I'll say this...

Michigan would be a worthy opponent for my Mountaineers.

OSU is one hell of a team though. If anyone can beat 'em, it's the Wolverines, but I ain't holding my breath...

[me b zola]

44. FUCK GEORGE W. BUSH*

:toast:

[Mountainman]

45. Are vets different today about their war experiences? My brother and I are

Vietnam vets and we haven't even told each other what we saw or went through let alone anyone else. I wonder if this war is different. Maybe these vets feel more that they have fought in vane than we did. I couldn't spend a night talking about Vietnam to you.

[StraightDope]

47. It does seem different...

My brother doesn't talk a lot about what happened over there, unless he's drunk, but I know six other guys who have served in Iraq, and none of them are particularly hesitant when it comes to discussing their experiences.

As to what accounts for the differences between the general attitude of Vietnam vets and those of Iraq vets, your guess is as good as mine.

[cui bono]

51. I have no direct experience with vets from either war, but it seems this

society as a whole puts their lives out in public a lot more than it used to. Look at the talk shows, the reality shows, the internet... I think the barriers of what is shared have broken down quite a bit in all areas of our lives.

[tblue37]

52. Maybe because so many of the vets from this war

are Reserve or National Guard? To them deployment, especially extended or repeat depoloyment, was probably more of a surprise and probably produced more of a sense of being imposed upon.

Or maybe it's just that young people today are used to our confessional culture where everything about everyone is grist for pictures, video recordings, reality TV, personal blogs, etc.

[frogcycle]

62. ARE YOU SHITTING ME???

the vast majority of VN vets were DRAFTED! My best friend was pulled out of college because he was late filing the form showing he was making acceptable progress. Six months later he was slogging thru rice paddies!

[tblue37]

63. Yeah, but those who were drafted expected to

be used as cannon fodder. They were infuriated and abused, sure, but they were not surprised.

Those who have joined the NG and the Reserves since the "all-vulunteer" military was instituted do so looking for college money, training, a job. They aren't really thinking that they will be forced to go to war, and they certainly aren't thinking that their "volunteer" status will turn into multiple deployments and stop-losses. That's another thing, those who went to VN went through hell, but after they served their tour of duty, they did come home--and most were regular Army, even if they were drafted. Those in the NG and Reserves really did think it was just for a weekend a month--not for 3-5 tours of duty and endlesss stop-losses.

Nevertheless, I still think the current confessional culture is a more likely factor in making these vets more willing to talk about their experiences.

[frogcycle]

76. i lived thru VN

Your point is off base.

my friends went; some didn't come back

plenty spoke out when they came back. Does the name John Kerry come to mind?

Getting drafted and sent over is NOT easier to cope with than joining the guard and getting sent over.

When they instituted the draft lottery and eliminated the last of the deferments, and my number came up 22 (yes, i remember it well) I was every bit as shocked and awed as the modern-day NG member who gets told he/she is being called up. I flunked my physical or I'd have been there, slogging thru a rice paddy, pregnant wife, college degree, and "critical industry" job notwithstanding.

VN went on much longer than this one has; there were 50,000 deaths, not "just" 3000, and many, many more people went there and returned with their own private hell to deal with. There were plenty of demonstrations, people were actually antiwar activists. People got their heads busted protesting. I went with a friend to visit his friend in Walter Reed; the guy was mentally gone. Physically no injury, but a walking zombie.

Don't get me wrong, I hate this war, and what it is doing to people who have to go, and their families. Just don't somehow try to paint it as "worse" for them then it was for my generation. It is hell for all. As to why "more are willing to talk about it" - I'd say you are speculating about something based on a bit of anecdotal evidence. If in fact there is a difference, it is more likely that the current generation was raised differently. We were raised (by WWII vets) to "suck it up" and deal with it. We didn't have counselors coming into schools to help us "cope" when something bad happened. I think these changes are good; maybe the guys in that bar won't be living with demons 35 years hence like my friend. He has never told me what his injury was, nor why he is currently classified as disabled.

[lildreamer316]

53. It's possible...

that they feel this is the best way to avoid some of the problems many Vietnam vets experienced. Please don't think I am in any way saying there's anything wrong with not talking about your experiences, it just may be a healthy thing for them.
Thank you for your service,btw.

[judaspriestess]

57. I have a very good friend who has trouble sleeping some

nights because of the flashes he gets from serving in Vietnam. He never talks about what he saw though. He says it was crazy shit. My heart goes out to him.

[windbreeze]

64. the mindset going in, perhaps?

people say we were lied to about Iraq...maybe...but basically, I believe that most people understood invading Iraq was inherently wrong...I know I wasn't lied to about Iraq...I was convinced we were wrong.. and I believe we all realized it was dirty, sneaky, illegal...whatever you want to call it..so there is an anger there...against the peers who sent them...and a need to get even...which means they want to expose what they lived through.
Vietnam, oh yes, we WERE lied to about Vietnam also...but...the internet wasn't there...all we had were the papers, and the TV to get our news from...the truth was buried a whole lot easier, and therefore was harder to find or expose...I think also, we were a little more naive at the time of Vietnam...there weren't songs about killing, drugs, hate this hate that..violence wasn't on the everyday menu of life, like it seems to be now...so the things that were seen and experienced, had a deeper impact...and caused a need to suffer quietly...because it was too horrific to talk about...just like we didn't talk about sex and other things like is openly done now...am I making any sense??? the times are different..everything is different...not just the vets...
My heart goes out to any vet, serving in any war...because when you get right down to it...war has nothing to do with being noble, doing what's right...it's big business... done to make arms manufacturers, and dealers rich...it's a rich man's game...they don't care what sacrifices are made, or about the humans sacrificed for those riches...
Thank you for serving...and Welcome Home..
windbreeze

[stanwyck]

72. Yes. I think they could be different. Here's why

(my perspective is that of a mother of a Marine, 23 yrs. old, with two tours in Iraq and one more coming up in January).
These soldiers have been video-taped since they were in utero. They've been documented on video since they were conceived and every step they've taken since. By their parents, their coaches, their teachers, and their friends. They grew up on reality TV. They live reality TV.
There are no barriers.
They talk about everything to everybody. (not all, of course -- but it's more acceptable, in general, than it would have been for people our age).
They were calling their girlfriends during the invasion until their (older and less attuned) superior officers caught on and confiscated the cell phones.
They took digital pictures of Abu Gharab and sent the images to their buddy list. Until their superior officers caught on. Belatedly.
They document what they do - and not always the good stuff.
They blog. They're on MySpace and UTube. They text message, email, and bluetooth.
They have to be connected. All the time.
What they consider private and you consider private is undoubtedly very different.
We don't understand these soldiers and neither do their leaders.
The Bushies here at home might be over-the-top nationalistic flag-wavers who value allegiance to this government more than allegiance to America (and there is a huge difference. We want what is best for America, not what is best for this administration). But these soldiers - again, in general - don't have that kind of nationalistic fervor.
In that respect, they are exactly like you and your fellow soldiers. They want to protect themselves, and they want to protect each other. What the government wants is secondary - if even considered.
They're fighting to save their fellow soldiers. Whatever their mission is, (and it's been changed numerous times) is inconsequential compared to coming home alive.

[StraightDope]

82. "...inconsequential compared to coming home alive."

Damn right. My brother's enlistment is up in January. He plans to re-up, despite EVERYONE in his life urging him not to do so. Me, my sister, my mother, my father, his girlfriend, his friends, etc. I asked him, in my naivete, "If you really want a 15k signing bonus that badly, I'll tke out a loan for you!"

His reply, "It's not about the money. I have to be there for my squad (he's a squad leader), and for the rest of those guys. They need me there. If I'm not there, there's a better chance of of some of thm not coming back."

After that, I understood why he wants to re-enlist...

That's what makes America great; putting the welfare of others above that of your own.

EDIT: spelling.

[RadiDem]

46. Fuck GWB, that combat avoiding chickenhawk POS! He's not fit to carry those soldiers jockstraps!

[Autonomy]

49. WHITE PHOSPHORUS?

Isn't that a chemical weapon, and its use a war crime? I hope these guys all get together for a drink after testifying at *'s trial in the Hague.

[K8-EEE]

50. Support The Troops, Fuck *!!!

Great story, thanks for sharing it!

[buddysmellgood]

58. Wow. Nice. I'm at a loss for words.

[Roland99]

59. I have one humongous problem with this otherwise amazing post....

UofL is gonna kick some Mountaineer butt on Thur.!!


:D :D



Thanks for the post. Good to know what the men who've been there are thinking.

[Laurab]

61. K & R My Nephew JUST got back, too - same story

Came home for a week, and he did talk, which I was happy to see. I think it's the ones who don't talk that you have to worry more about. I don't know how these guys are going to be able to live with what's going on, and what they're being forced to do over there.

His job has nothing to do with combat, but once there, everyone has something to do with combat. The story that stands out most to me was probably what bothered him the most. There are apparently a lot of young kids over there - pointing AK-47's at the troops. He said it as if it's a common thing, and it's a decision no one wants to make, but he said he just had to keep thinking "I'm going to make it home to see my son". And he did. He also said they did intensive psychological testing when his tour was done, which I guess is good, but how will they ever really recover?

He is just a decent kid who joined because he had no future. He said he's already voted, and that everyone he knew was voting for dems.

It was really disturbing - the range of expressions on his face while he was talking, as if he was trying to be matter-of-fact, but then would almost break down, was hard to watch. He also said similar things about Halliburton and KBR, as in the OP.

What a fucking mess this administration has gotten us into. We HAVE to win on Election Day, that's all I can say.

[StraightDope]

69. I have a friend who oce told me a similar story.

When a vehicle won't get out of the road for a convoy, there is somtimes little that our troops can do, from a safety perspective, other than destroy the vehicle and any occupants.

As my friend so 'eloquently' put it, "They know to get out of our way. If they don't, we light 'em up. Sometimes it's a guy with an IED, but usually, it's not."

Mind you, his tour was in '04 or so, well before the violence had escalated to the point at which it now stands.

[malaise]

65. Great post

Fuck George Bush!

[Toots]

66. are something that you can NEVER forget, they stay with you for life

He does not know exactly how true that statement was. :shrug: a Toast FUCK George W Bush*

[YOY]

67. Now that would make a winning campagn commercial

Instead of limp wristed mud slinging. Real soldiers talking about just what they have seen.

I'd give money for a commercial to be made like that.

[ShaneGR]

68. You do NOT want WVU to get into the National Championship...

Because they'll have to play Ohio State. And that's not a good thing. lol

[michreject]

70. Were they in uniform?..................eom

[StraightDope]

77. One was in BDUs...

At first, I thought it was just a Halloween costume, until I saw his name stitched over his pocket. That's what tipped me off to the fact that they were soldiers in the first place.

[Sammy Pepys]

71. Were they West Virginia ANG?

Wonder if my cousin was among them...though I'm not sure if he's returned from Iraq.

[mhatrw]

75. I'll drink to that!

:toast:

[KansDem]

79. Kick...

This thread needs to be read by as many DUers as possible

:dem:

[StraightDope]

80. That being the case...

Up with ye, thread!

[Terri S]

83. Wonderful post!!! Thank you!!!

I'm too new to be able to recommend yet, but hope this brings it up a bit!!