Recalling Reagan in Berlin, Gorbachev Chides US for Building Wall

[BurtWorm]

Gorbachev compares proposed U.S. border wall to Berlin Wall
Bob Campbell<br>Staff Writer
Midland Reporter-Telegram

http://www.mywesttexas.com/site/printerFriendly.cfm?brd=2288&dept_id=475626&newsid=17342695


Former Soviet President visits Midland

Former Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev compared the United States' proposed 700-mile wall on the U.S.-Mexico border to the Berlin Wall during a Tuesday visit to Midland.
< Watch > Mikhail Gorbachev video presentation at Midland College

Addressing a Tuesday news conference at UTPB's Center for Energy and Economic Diversification, the JBS Public Leadership Institute Distinguished Lecture Series speaker was by turns serious and flippant prior to a reception with more than 100 people.

"You remember President Reagan standing in Berlin and saying, 'This wall should be torn down,'" said the 1990 Nobel Peace Prize winner. "Now the United States seems to be building almost the Wall of China between itself and this other nation with which it has been associated for many decades and has had cooperation and interaction with.

"I think what is really needed are ideas and proposals about how to improve that cooperation and work out all of those issues regarding immigration flows. I don't think the U.S. is so weak and so much lacks confidence as not to be able to find a different solution....

[C_U_L8R]

1. He's right

and he recognizes the old soviet
thinking going on at the White House,

How ironical.

[cigsandcoffee]

2. Well, a notable difference...

...is that the Berlin wall was designed to keep people in and hostage to a brutal system, while the American border fence is meant to keep illegals out.

That said, I think the wall is a ridiculous idea - I just don't see Gorby's comparison.

[razors edge]

3. But our fence

will also keep people in when needed.

[cigsandcoffee]

4. I think some pretty radical changes would have to happen...

...for Americans to begin fleeing to Mexico in a "skulk across the border at a high risk to personal safety" kind of way. The traffic in that area is heading north for the forseeable future, to the tune of millions of people.

Under what scenario do you see hordes of Americans fleeing to Mexico?

[Selatius]

9. A wall impedes progress in both directions.

It doesn't discriminate between a would-be illegal immigrant or a US servicemen going AWOL to avoid a third tour of duty in Iraq.

[cigsandcoffee]

12. I'm sure any member of the armed forces...

...could come up with a better means of crossing the border than traversing a desert in a remote section of the country. They could just drive to Canada, for instance.

[Selatius]

22. Wouldn't it make more sense to scale a wall and wade the Rio Grande?

Especially if you live close to Mexico? Than drive north several thousand miles?

[razors edge]

11. The outlaw of liberal politics maybe?

bush no longer needs the congress to pass law, he could declare liberals enemy combatants in a signing statement to a law about vegetable cleaning.

[cigsandcoffee]

14. That's just not realistic.

...considering his approval ratings, laughability factor, and us being 200+ years in to America's cherished tradition of a peaceful transfer of power. Bush will be gone in two years, and we'll have somebody new to enjoy or worry about.

And traffic will still be moving north on the Mexican border.

[razors edge]

18. Hope you are right

but the events surrounding Mr "It would be easier if it were a dictatorship, as long as I'm the dictator" bush don't give comfort to that outlook.

two stolen elections.

two fraudulent wars.

two appointees to the USSC.

two brain cells, neither firing in order.

too many statements that don't support the free ideas of a democracy to ignore.

[cigsandcoffee]

19. Bah.

He's a moron, and soon to be the lamest of ducks. After this election, people need to start looking toward 2008 and cleaning up his mess.

[T Town Jake]

5. Excellent points all.

(n/t)

[Spider Jerusalem]

6. Well...

"designed to keep people in and hostages to a brutal system".

And the US border wall is designed to keep Mexicans in a country rife with governmental corruption, brutally violent organised crime, and an exploitative economy where the average worker in some places counts himself lucky to be making the equivalent of US $60 a week (and supporting his family on that paltry amount, too). In a way it's as though West Germany decided to build the Berlin Wall to keep the riff-raff from the Communist East where they belonged. So I'd say Gorbachev's comparison is sort of apt.

[cigsandcoffee]

7. They're Mexican citizens, though.

Mexico is their country. You're kind of implying that it's America's responsibility to accept unfettered immigration from every other country in the world. We should certainly help them out, but I can't see doing away with our borders as though they meant nothing.

Had West Germany built the wall, Gorbachev would have had a point.

[BurtWorm]

8. He's kind of implying that the wall is an abdication

of human responsibility to each other. Reagan was demanding that East Germans be free to cross into the West if they wanted. The Reepers are demanding that Mexico keep its scum on the other side of the wall.

You have to see the irony, no?

[cigsandcoffee]

10. No, not really.

Human responsibilities are nice, but they're not really practical when it comes to US Customs & Immigration. You won't find a lot of modern countries in the world that don't take their borders extremely seriously - Russia included.

West Germany was happy to take as many defectors from East Germany as could get in - because they weren't big fans of the Soviets (who posed a militrary threat to them). It's just not at all comparable to our relationship with Mexico and the enforcement of our border. You and Gorby are stretching, I think.

[BurtWorm]

13. How many build 700 mile fences along them?

:wtf:

[cigsandcoffee]

15. The fence is a symbol - and a stupid one.

But the sentiment behind it is more than common in all modern countries. You just aren't going to find any (relatively) prosperous nations that don't strictly enforce their borders, and more and more places are cracking down on illegals in a big way. Ireland, for instance, has focused intensely on the issue lately, and regularly sends out squads to capture and deport illegals.

They're a charitable nation, Ireland, but borders are borders and rules are rules. Same goes here.

[BurtWorm]

17. And a wall is a wall.

You seem to see the irony, despite protesting it with all your fiber.

[cigsandcoffee]

20. What I see is an inaccurate comparison.

You and Gorby are free to see whatever it is you'd like, but that doesn't really make the comparison valid.

[BurtWorm]

21. And you are free to miss the point.

Over and over and over, because you're apparently hung up on the immigration question. So be it.

[Ms. Clio]

23. I doubt you actually know very much about real life on the border

or the Spanish and Mexican frontiers in North America.

Just a hunch.

[moondust]

24. delete

[upi402]

16. same same but different

the worm turns