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Iraq : the real story : stunning video on "The Guardian"

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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 03:26 AM
Original message
Iraq : the real story : stunning video on "The Guardian"
Sean Smith, the Guardian's award-winning war photographer, spent nearly six weeks with the 101st Division of the US army in Iraq. Watch his haunting observational film that explodes the myth around the claims that the Iraqis are preparing to take control of their own country.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/video/page/0,,1927660,00.html
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 03:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hey, they lied us into this stupid War, make sense that they'll...
...lie us out of it too.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 03:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. Jesus, a fucking primer on how to lose a war....
What a "hearts and minds" fiasco. We've learned NOTHING from Vietnam.
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. it is not a war, it is an occupation...
for the sole purpose of stealing Iraqi oil.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 03:40 AM
Response to Original message
3. Looks to me as though they
DO have control of their country. We sure don't. The whole nightmare has been out of control from the beginning. What is the freaking POINT, George?
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Nostradammit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 03:53 AM
Response to Original message
4. These poor men who think they are part of a noble cause
God almighty, how they will rage when they learn the truth of the matter.

Did you notice the t-shirt "Angels from Hell" at the same time they mention KBR?

Thanks for the link - It's just as bad over there as I'd imagined.


Fuck you, Dick Cheney.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 04:47 AM
Response to Original message
5. BRING THE TROOPS HOME NOW!
:mad:

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ninkasi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. I agree, Swamp Rat
Bring our troops home now. Just out of curiosity, who is the man you show, the one with a tear in his eye? It haunts me. It shows a man who is strong, but heartbroken. Is the tear for a buddy lost, or just the whole freaking mess? I'm old enough to be his mother, and having 2 sons myself, I feel like hugging him, and saying something to comfort him.

Sorry, I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but that image is so powerful...
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. He's our father ... our uncle ... our cousin ... our brother ... our son.
I do not know him personally, but I feel like I know him.

Maybe I should remove the image from my sigline (it has been there since I started posting here and is one of my first collages), but I cannot bring myself to it, not at least until our troops come home. Every time I create something new that I think would work great as a sigline, when I go to replace it I get stopped ... my eyes become gripped on that soldier and the ones burying their friend.

BRING THE TROOPS HOME NOW!
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Don't change it, SR, not until our men and women are home.
It's a stark reminder of what we are trying to achieve.
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ninkasi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Please don't remove him
He is one of the most powerful images I've ever seen. Yes, he is our father, or uncle, or cousin, or brother, or son. We all loved him from the moment he entered our lives, and we see him now, a man of great strength, but also great sorrow. He remembers all of the times he and his buddies were in combat, and they are closer than a family related by birth, they are a family of men determined to do their duty to us, an to their country.

I see his tears as the manifestation of his humanity, and love of his fellow troops. That beautiful young man has more dignity, more courage, and more compassion, in the tip of his little fingertip than the ones who sent him into danger have in their whole sorry asses put together, and multiplied.

I hope you don't remove that sweet child...I have grandchildren in their twenties, so for me, he is a child. As a woman, every woman's child is to be loved and cherished. He is a soldier, a man, and everything that is good about our country. It pains me that he mourns, and faces danger, because of the corrupt men who sent him to face death. As I said, it's your right to change your sigline, but yours reminds me of what America could be, if the current regime is removed. He gives me hope.
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 04:53 AM
Response to Original message
6. Good post!
And a good film, describing the situation very well.

Have also a look at this film, with Robert Fisk describing the problems journalists have in Iraq.

http://www.brasscheck.com/videos/iraq/iraqwar7.html
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
8. Jesus Christ! nt
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
9. Well that was very depressing
:(
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RedEarth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
10. Thanks for the link
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
11. They're being asked to do the impossible
It's turning us all into animals.

BRING THEM HOME NOW DAMN IT.
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jarnocan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
14. thanks also important Consortium news article another Reality CHECK
Edited on Sat Oct-21-06 01:54 PM by jarnocan
"Osama bin Laden really wants is a U.S. military withdrawal from Iraq -- and that U.S. voters should deny him that wish. But recent U.S. intelligence actually reveals the opposite, that al-Qaeda realizes that "prolonging" the U.S. occupation serves its interests by creating thousands of new jihadists" http://www.consortiumnews.com/
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
15. Well holy shit no wonder we aren't winning their hearts and minds...
They talk down to the Iraqis, and that is one of the most important things to treat people with respect.

But that is a nicety, just from the perspective of control, they aren't exerting any. Where the hell is the surveillance? They should be flying UAVs night and day in all of Iraq to watch out for people killing and shooting and lobbing grenades at Americans. They need to control the arms. They need to do a sweep of the whole damn country and take away all the weapons. This will automatically reduce the ability of the enemy to strike.

We might be able to win, I thought we were even being nice to the Iraqis, and that they simply resisted this. We are treating these people like shit, and no one trusts or loves anyone when treated like that.

They use kid gloves in the wrong way at the wrong time.
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iamahaingttta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
16. Believe it or not, it's all going according to plan...
Seriously, I thought from the beginning that this is EXACTLY what the Neo-Cons intended.
They knew it wouldn't be a cakewalk.
There's too much money to be made of off killing people.
Empty much of the country out, THEN steal the oil.
Don't say they didn't have a plan, because this is it!
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moodforaday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. It is not about oil
Edited on Sat Oct-21-06 07:15 PM by marekjed
At least, it's not about oil for everybody involved in planning, executing and supporting this war. For one thing, Bush could have had cheap Iraqi oil without going to war. For another, he could have listened to many high-ranking civilian and military advisors who knew how this could be done with less bloodshed and less chaos. If Iraq had a functioning, respected government and the country were developing peacefully, the US would have been reaping rewards, oil being one of them. It certainly wasn't about oil for the neocons. It wasn't about oil for corporations, who need a safe place to do business in (paraphrasing Greg Palast here).

What was it about? Perhaps we do not know yet - perhaps it's still to be seen. But I think it was a mix of the following:

1. The weapons industry looked at the end of the cold war and shuddered. "Peace dividend" is written in red ink on their annual reports. It's getting harder to sell weapons anywhere, because the countries most willing to buy weapons are also those that cause you no end of bad PR when you do. So the industry needs a war - the likes of Lockheed Martin and many others, as do the private "security" companies, i.e. mercenaries like Blackwater, Custer Battles et al.

2. For the army, it's an exercise. There was a whole generation of professional soldiers who had never seen combat. Whole weapons systems that had never been tested in the field. And they need to show they're still needed.

3. For the neocons, many reasons, all of them having nothing to do with oil. The war is a display of power for the benefit of potential adversaries (including several South American countries). Watch what we can do, we don't care, we don't even need a reason that stands to scrutiny. At the same time, the neocons were on a power trip themselves. How often does someone who lives their life penning policy papers get to have their ideas tested in real life, in their lifetime? (I'm being generous to them, only because to a degree they seem to have that academic streak. Whatever their other reasons, I'm pretty sure they were genuinely curious as to how their concepts would turn out in practice. This is entirely separate from our human, moral and political assessment of the neocon agenda.)

4. I strongly believe this is also a huge exercise in population control - the US population. To what extent can we control or manipulate the media? Can we do PR good enough to obscure the facts, to blind the majority of the people to the real issues? Can we "create our own reality"? (That hair-raising quote by way of Ron Suskind, remember?) How far can we have our way with all the various "security" regulations? (They are almost invariably CONTROL regulations, note, having little to do with real security of the US population. They are about the security of the government). That part went pretty well for them, didn't it, with even habeas corpus gone and only the lone voice of Olbermann protesting. it's a huge social exercise, as was the non-response to Katrina.

5. Did Bush want oil? Yeah, I guess - he wanted it _expensive_. This is how his family makes money, after all.

These are just off the top of my head.

There's probably going to be a full-blown civil war in Iraq, it's already happening. Is this part of the plan, too? I have no opinion about it, and you'd have to ask, whose plan. But I do believe there has been some Western involvement in fostering the conflict. (Remember those British special forces agents who were driving around in Basra, in Arabic attire, shooting people?) The military policies, the way the occupation forces treat the Iraqis - that too is part of the picture. It was not inevitable, it did not have to happen that way. But somewhere, someone preferred it that way.

It's not like this was run by one, tightly-knit group of people with a focused agenda. Between Bush, who most likely doesn't know what he wants until Condie tells him, Cheney and his gang, Rumsfeld and the military command, neocons, weapon makers, CIA and other spooks, Israel, Britain, Iran (Chalabi)... you're going to find a lot of agendas.

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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
17. No words to convey what I feel.
Just a staggering sense of sadness for everyone involved.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-22-06 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
21. That scene where the soldier is hitting golf balls -
What is he standing on? Are those coffins?
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