89 year old driver convicted for accident--could get 18 years in prison

[trumad]

LOS ANGELES. California (AP) -- An elderly driver who killed 10 people and injured more than 70 when his car plowed through a farmers market was found guilty Friday of 10 counts of vehicular manslaughter with gross negligence.

George Russell Weller, 89, was not in court to hear the verdict. He faces as many as 18 years in prison.

Weller, who is frail and in poor health, attended only the trial's opening statements.

Jurors deliberated eight days before reaching the harshest verdict possible in the crash in Santa Monica three years ago.

Weller's attorneys argued he was a victim of "pedal error," that mistook his car's accelerator for the brake and panicked when the vehicle raced into the open-air market on July 16, 2003.

Prosecutors said he was careless to the point of criminal negligence and lacked remorse.

"He looked at what he had done, essentially shrugged his shoulders and said 'oops,"' prosecutor Ann Ambrose told the jury.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/10/20/market.crash.ap/index.html

[bleedingheart]

1. He deserves his sentence

people have choices...and when you can't drive well anymore...you can choose to not drive and make changes to your life to accomodate that or you can drive and risk killing someone.

"oops"...is not enough.


my neighbor's dog was killed when it ran out into the street and the woman who hit it was so overcome with grief and remorse (it was not her fault)...that she had to be driven home by another person and she forked over a lot of money to my neighbor ....and that was over a little doggie. This guy kills people and says ..."oops"

[trumad]

2. The guy's almost 90

There's a very good possibility that he had no clue of how grave the situation was.

Plus--- doesn't the DMV have some responsibility with this?

[bleedingheart]

8. my aunts gave up driving when they hit 80.

they gave it up on their own...no need for the DMV to get involved.

Hell even family members can get a license revoked. My brother in law got his father's and his mother's licenses revoked when he found out that they had been hiding their alzheimers diagnosis.

My mother's neighbor across the street has alzheimers and his wife knows this and still lets him drive. DMV maybe should put in place more mandatory testing but people have to face facts and save lives.

[warrens]

49. No, under most state laws, they can only yank your license AFTER an

accident. Not sure about Calif. Clearly, something has to be done. Driving at 90 is dangerous, particularly since the incidence of dementia at that age is high. Ten people dead. What are they going to do, yank his license and say "bad boy?"

[SteppingRazor]

3. It's really sad, though...

I mean, believe me, I can understand the outrage -- I live in South Florida, for God's sake. A blue-haired oldie drives through a storefront here practically on a monthly basis. I'm definitely for mandatory drver's tests, say, every 2 years after the age of 70. That said, the real problem is just that -- that we do nothing to prevent people incapable of driving from doing so.

[bleedingheart]

13. I believe the problem lies more with the people who know better

but do nothing...

We can mandate all kinds of laws and tests ...but the best method is for families to intervene.

I am thinking about reporting my mother's neighbor because he should not be driving. The man has Alzheimers...for christ sakes...if he kills someone's kid...everyone in that neighborhood will be at fault for not reporting him.

His wife knows...she just "doesn't like to drive" ...she she lets him drive her around....it is utter madness.

[nam78_two]

5. "He is frail and in poor health"

I wonder why he was driving at that age...maybe he was having a hard time making ends meet.

I think its sad that the elderly apparently have to work at that age when they are in poor health.
Its very sad for all concerned.....Its a lose-lose situation :(. I wonder why they don't have stricter rules....

Edit: Ok I am an idiot :). I thought he was a taxi cab driver and was driving because that was all the work he could find or something....Blah too many late nights at work. Yup mandatory driving tests.

[cobalt1999]

9. exactly.

Since when did the justice system supposed to use a "sliding scale" based on your age.

If this was a drug impaired teenager vs. a senile old man, no one would be whining.

[bleedingheart]

10. I am in complete agreement... I also think that when 90 year old Nazis

are discovered they also need to be incarcerated. They had the luxury of getting old...their victims didn't.

[truebrit71]

14. In this particular situation I wholeheartedly agree...

...this was a dreadful situation and justice must be done.

He should NOT have been driving in the first place..

[piedmont]

32. not if he had diminished mental ability

If he was not thinking clearly because of a medical condition related to his age, he probably couldn't be expected to make the decision not to drive.

[LostinVA]

35. He didn't , as per everything I've read

No dementia, Alzheimer's, etc.

[LostinVA]

34. Agreed -- the sentence is deserved

Many, many people died that day. Many were seriously injured, some lost their livelihood because of their injuries. It doesn't matter if he's 89 or 29.

[Donnachaidh]

4. MANDATORY yearly driving tests -- 70 and older

if this guy was 35, he'd be in jail now.

[matcom]

6. thank you. been saying this for YEARS

and you are right: MANDATORY DRIVING TESTS! NOT just a written

[cobalt1999]

11. they've tried to institute this in Florida before...

always fails quickly. All the old people here vote heavily and no politician is willing to go against that.

[wicket]

21. BINGO!

That's what stops anything from being done about eldery drivers / testing, the fear of the wrath of that voting block.

[LibDemAlways]

7. An 82 year old woman near where I live swerved into

a bike lane the other day and killed a local dentist who was out getting some exercise. Elderly people should be given a behind the wheel test every two years after 70 and every year after 75. My mom's 83 and no longer drives. Just too risky.

[no_hypocrisy]

12. I think the issue is a lot of adult children know about their parent's

or parents' driving abilities, but they don't want the problem of "taking away their keys". Or the consequences of having to drive their parents to their destinations if they take away the keys.

[bleedingheart]

15. bingo...it is a combination of selfishness and guilt

guilt at having to turn the tables around and be the parent....and taking away a freedom...and the selfishness of worrying about repercussions... "will dad cut me out of his will if I turn him in for driving around even though he has alzheimers?"

[AngryAmish]

16. It is extremely hard to do that

My father was in his 70s when the automatic renewal thingy came in the mail. He wanted to renew. I said no way. He was quite deaf, his thinking was impaired and his hands could hardly grip due to arthritis.

He did it anyway. He said he needed an ID.

I took the battery out of his car. He never noticed it. He was sincere about wanting an ID and wasn't driving anyway.

It was a fight that made me feel bad. Nobody wants to be treated like a child especially by their own child. It can get nasty but sometimes it has to be done.

[bleedingheart]

18. it is hard ...there is no argument there

my mother is aging and while she is still alert, active and can get around...
But we discuss the fact that eventually she will have to move into a facility or move in with me and my family....and we would be more than happy to have her.

[AngryAmish]

24. She is lucky to have you

I had the priviledge of taking care of my father in his later years. Some folks just get dumped by their kids in a home and left to rot. What a terrible thing to do to one's parents.

[nam78_two]

28. I have a friend in sociology looking into the situation of elders

in South Asia...its really tragic.

A lot of the poorest families, when they can no longer take care of the old just kick them out of their homes and they beg for a living on the streets.

I was looking at some of the case studies in her research...its heart-breaking :cry:

There are case studies of people who starved to death on city streets or in some village.

[LibDemAlways]

20. You are right. With people living longer, there are a lot of seniors

out there who need rides, and a lot of middle aged "children" of those seniors who are already carting their teenagers around in between working and taking care of their own obligations. All too easy to let the parents drive and hope to God they don't get into an accident.

[chefgirl]

22. Ok, I'll play devil's advocate for a minute

You bring up a point that crossed my mind when I first heard about this accident.
What if the guy had no one to help him, or to drive him places where he needed to go? Sometimes people get caught between the shit and the sweat, so to speak. Maybe that was the case with this guy.

I've been in two accidents that were caused by old people, and if not for airbags in the second one, I would have easily crashed right through the windshield on the passenger side.

I was furious with the little old blue haired lady who caused it and who could barely see over the steering wheel, but I can also see the flip side of the story, when I remember how difficult it was for my own Father to give up his license, and therefore his independence. He surrendered his when we pressured him enough, but mandatory road tests after a certain age would relieve the family of that responsibility, and probably save lives.

Also, its not only physical reaction time and eyesight that get fuzzy as people get older, but judgement can become critically impaired too, so perhaps this man had no real appreciation for the danger he was exposing people to with his driving.

The responsibility is certainly his, but Im not sure I would send him to prison for 18 years, either. It WAS an accident, after all.

-chef-

[LostinVA]

36. A colleague actually wrote to the DMV to have her mom's license revoked

Why? Because her mom had just been given a DL renewal... the day after she ran through a fence because she didn't see it. My colleague never heard anything, so called up the Highway Patrol, who told her to call her State delegate. She did, and her Mom was given a vision test and had her DL revoked.

My colleague said the fence could have been a person.

[kestrel91316]

17. My take on this: they convicted him to give the victims'

families (who seem bent on VENGEANCE) some degree of satisfaction. Everyone knows no judge in their right mind is going to send this man to prison. What earthly purpose would that serve???

I predict 10 years probation, with NO DRIVING as a condition, and some community service.

Some people seem to want hard labor or the death penalty!!!! Get a grip. The old guy is halfway non compos mentis, and THAT's why he caused such a horrible accident and responded so inappropriately. He's not fundamentally evil.

[Sherman A1]

23. Agreed

Should he have been driving - NO. Was it an accident - YES. Should he drive again - Absolutely NOT. Probation, House Arrest (which considering his age will probably come in the form a nursing home anyway), some other form of punishment -Sure. The whole thing is just Sad.

[LostinVA]

38. I don't agree it being an accident excuses it

It wasn't done maliciously, but the guy barreled down a pedestrian mall at full highway speed, hitting people left and right.... there was someone STUCK UNDER the car and splayed across the windshield. Before this, he had hit several cars., then went through sawhorses to zip down the mall.

He deserves the sentence. And, we know he won't get one day of actual prison time. Although I do think he should be imprisoned, even if it's not in a prison.

on edit: I also kinda think that going around a big Road Closed sign and crashing through sawhorses -- when there is no mental incapacity -- shows intent to some degree. Maybe not to kill, but to "I'm doing what I want, dammit."

[Gormy Cuss]

25. Interesting insight.

You are right, convicting him gives some satisfaction to the victims and their families and perhaps re-enforces the message to other seniors and their families that there are very real consequences for failing to take action when a senior is no longer capable of driving.

It's a sick society that equates driving with independence to begin with, but far too many seniors hold on to driving because they don't have reasonable alternatives for maintaining independence.

[kestrel91316]

33. If anything, we should be faulting the INSURANCE COMPANIES

for selling the incompetent elderly drivers cheap insurance, or insuring them at all.

[lies and propaganda]

19. the DMV or MVD plays a part as well...

they shouldnt give fucking licenses to the ederly. Your over 80, youre down driving, period.

[Vidar]

26. Good.

[AlCzervik]

27. My Nana gave up her license on her own, she's 86 now but about

7 years ago when her night vision started to go she said "Thats it, i don't want to hurt anyone", clearly this man shouldn't have been driving and there is plenty of blame to go round.

[Norbu]

29. 1989 was quite a year

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989

the Soviets pulled their last troops out of Afghanistan

Bush 41 is inaugurated, holds up bag of cocaine in his first speech to the nation

Tiananmen Square

fall of the Berlin Wall

Menendez brothers

[LostinVA]

41. What does 1989 have to do with anything?

Not snarky, just wondering.

[Sequoia]

43. Because the guy is 89?

Still.....?

I used to go to that Farmer's Market when I lived there. Very narrow on the street when the booths are there. I was horrified. I hope the judge doesn't let him off due to old age.

[LostinVA]

44. Ah....

[CarbonDate]

51. The guy was 89 years old.

That's the only connection I can think of. :shrug:

On edit: y'all are quicker than me... I'll hit "refresh" after getting out of the shower next time...

[newyawker99]

45. Hi Norbu!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[progressivebydesign]

30. I've read a lot about this crash. It wasn't simple inability...

he just kept going and going. He got frustrated and angry that the street was blocked off and tried to muscle his way outta there. He hit one car, then people, and kept going.

You know, just because someone is in their 80s does not automatically make them a kindly old fellow. Some people still have anger issues long into their 90s. Road rage happens at any age, and I think that is what this case amounted to. Elderly road rage.

[piedmont]

31. dementia, maybe?

I haven't kept up with this, but was he ever diagnosed with dementia? That can definitely have an effect on anger and impulse control.

[LostinVA]

40. No n/t

[kestrel91316]

37. People with senile dementia often have anger management

issues. It doesn't make them sociopaths. They are incompetent, not uncaring.

[LostinVA]

39. I agree very much with something you said

"You know, just because someone is in their 80s does not automatically make them a kindly old fellow."

My mom and I were talking about this very thing a few days ago. Someone at 89 is the same as someone at 29... unless they have dementia or something. And, he didn't have diminished mental capacity -- he knew what he was doing.

The man was literally almost torn apart by the crowd... a man stopped the crowd from turning into a literal lynch mob.


on edit: Posters should know the man never DID stop his car... he kept barreling down hitting people, a body snagged under the car. Bodies under the car stopped him.

[slaveplanet]

47. Yep, I remember reading about this right here

at DU when this first happened, those reports and lots of speculation here had him painted as doing this largely on purpose. There is a chance this guy is some kind of old freeper and he was targeting this largely hispanic street market, if not on purpose, then out of some pent up frustration.

I think your assessment is correct PBD.

[wicket]

52. Agreed

On edit:



From Lost in VA's link below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Russell_Weller

Weller struck a car from behind, then accelerated around a road closure sign, crashed through wooden sawhorses, and plowed into the busy crowd, driving nearly 1,000 feet at speeds between 40 and 60 miles per hour.

-snip-

Some observers questioned Weller's account, noting that witnesses reported:

* Seeing no brake lights on Weller's car;
* That Weller stared straight ahead as he drove through the crowd, victims flying over his windshield;
* That Weller avoided parked cars to the side of the road, steering instead directly down the middle of the crowded street; and
* That upon exiting his car, cane in hand, Weller casually asked how many people he had hit.

UGH!

[LostinVA]

55. Another witness says he asked why people didn't get out of his way

WTF???

[LostinVA]

42. Some more info:

(from wikipedia)

"At 1:47 p.m. on July 16, 2003, Weller drove his red 1992 Buick Le Sabre westbound down Arizona Ave. towards the popular Third Street Promenade. The last few blocks of the street before the ocean had been closed for the weekly farmers' market. Weller struck a car from behind, then accelerated around a road closure sign, crashed through wooden sawhorses, and plowed into the busy crowd, driving nearly 1,000 feet at speeds between 40 and 60 miles per hour. The entire sequence of collisions took at least 10 seconds. The car was eventually brought to a halt by the body of a victim trapped underneath. Ten people were killed and 63 injured. Weller told investigators he had accidentally put his foot on the accelerator instead of the brake, then tried to brake but could not stop. Days after the crash, Weller issued a statement saying he was distraught and heartbroken, and his attorney called it an accident.

Some observers questioned Weller's account, noting that witnesses reported:

*Seeing no brake lights on Weller's car;
* That Weller stared straight ahead as he drove through the crowd, victims flying over his windshield;
* That Weller avoided parked cars to the side of the road, steering instead directly down the middle of the crowded street; and
* That upon exiting his car, cane in hand, Weller casually asked how many people he had hit.


****************************************************************************

Those who died:

Theresa Bregalia, 50, of the Bronx, New York; Brendon Esfahani, 7 months, Molok Ghoulian, 62, and Cindy Valladares, 3, all of Los Angeles; Gloria Gonzalez, 35, of Venice; Movsha Hoffman, 78, of Santa Monica; Leroy Lattier, 55, a transient; Diana McCarthy, 41, and Kevin McCarthy, 50, both of New York; and Lynne Ann Weaver, 47, of Woodland Hills.

[CarbonDate]

53. A 7 month old baby and 3 year old child.

Yeah, let's just put this guy on house arrest :grr:

[LostinVA]

54. Yup, I know...

To me, the worst thing is he was stopped because of a woman's body wedged under his car.... ugh.

I also read an article a little while ago about how quite a few people have serious life-altering injuries because of this guy. One lady was a long-time hair stylist, but injuries to her hands and arm have taken her livelihood (and business) away. She's in her late 40's... whose going to pay her living expenses while she learns how to do something else?

[renate]

46. the man's physician should have reported him if he had dementia etc

I don't know about the laws in all states but in mine a physician is legally required to notify the DMV if a person isn't competent to drive.

This makes a nice out for family members who don't want to be directly responsible for taking away the keys--tell the doctor they're worried about the parent's symptoms of dementia or whatever, have the physician do an assessment during a checkup, and let her/him take the rap. That sounds kind of hard on the doctor, but really, since it's a legal obligation, there's no dilemma for the physician--just some extra paperwork.

[Withywindle]

48. Good.

Having read the more detailed accounts of this incident, I don't believe it's a case of an innocent incapacitated elderly person having a horrible accident. Not at all. 10 people dead, more than 70 people injured? That means he must have hit nearly 100 people! Jesus, there've been airliner crashes with fewer injuries than that.

I think he committed mass murder and then played the "helpless bewildered old fogey" defense. Which is an insult to all elderly people everywhere.

[mitchum]

50. Good, but unfortunately he's still getting off lightly