Don't believe this is a police state? Watch this video

[bif]

http://bravoclan.com/ppmaps/index.html

Scary stuff

[havocmom]

1. VERY IMPORTANT

People, get this video link out there!

And please keep this kicked.

[NoSheep]

72. Kick. This is horrible.

[hunter]

73. Myspace? Bleccccccchhhhhhhhh.

http://www.archive.org/details/TheEyeoftheStorm

[hunter]

143. In case I wasn't clear, there are better links to this video.

You don't need to put up with that link through some unknown person's site, the myspace branding, or the stinky shockwave protection.

This is just one:

http://www.archive.org/details/TheEyeoftheStorm

It's a nice clean .avi file you can share with your friends...

[AndyA]

2. Holy crap. Sure doesn't seem like America.

Fascism is becoming the new American way of life.

How pathetic we can't find better leaders who will do their job and not take advantage of their positions. :(

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

45. It's Senator McCarthy's America.

We've been down this road before, as Olbermann mentioned in his comments last night.

Every time we've limited freedoms for some threat or another, the leaders abused the power.

[AndyA]

3. Only two more votes for Greatest Page!

Come on, this video needs to be seen!

[ShortnFiery]

4. Whoa! Yes, it's FASCISM .... K & R

[robinlynne]

5. excellent. And we always wondered where the cameras were.

[Tesha]

6. Can someone please summarize the contents of the video? (NT)

[havocmom]

9. Shows police singling out protestors for facial and clothing details

along with audio of orders on how to attack demonstrators, pepper spraying young kids and babies, the face that THERE WAS NO BOTTLE THROWING that police claim set off their response to a lawful demonstration. The fact that they were ordered to dispurse people because bush supporters attending a fundraiser could hear protesters.

Using the police's own video and audio to condemn their actions and compare it to Hitler's forces.

Powerful stuff. If you are not where you can play the video, send yourself the link so you can play it later when it is OK

This is the argument for those who insist it is not like the Nazis. This is the evidence, and it is the police department's own footage.

[Tesha]

23. The ironic part is large numbers of DUers defend police actions...

The ironic part is large numbers of DUers seem to defend
any and all police actions (so long as the actions aren't
aimed squarely at themselves).

"927 police bullets in him in 23 seconds? He deserved more!"

"Gassed the protesters? Well, that's what they get for
being anarchists."

Tesha

[KittyWampus]

39. the multiple shots were into an escaped convict who killed 2 police

officers (one human, one dog), who took the murdered officers gun, and who was in a shooting position and raised his arm as if to shoot at the SWAT team surrounding him.

Many, many DU'ers pointed out that the SWAT members only needed to fire their automatic weapons for TWO seconds. So the number of buillets was not unrealistic and, in fact, showed restraint.

That you find a problem with THAT incident is troubling. It should NOT be included in this thread.

[Tesha]

56. Doesn't matter. Cops acted as judge, jury, and executioner.

And if you can't see why this was wrong, we're doomed.

Tesha

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

67. So did the suspect. n/t

[Tesha]

82. Yeah, but *HE* was the "bad guy". The cops aren't supposed to be. (NT)

[Kolesar]

151. Answer me a question, please

Who is the pic in your avatar?

[Autonomy]

152. That's the character from the Onion

umm, Herbert something. He's a "gangsta accounts receivable accountant" or something.

edit: Herbert Kornfeld
http://www.theonion.com/content/columnists/view/kornfeld

[Kolesar]

165. Thanks.Someone at roadbikereview is using him as an avatar, too

Much too hip hop when I am just trying to wake up, though.

[IntiRaymi]

188. Yes, but he is a *suspect*

Can you see the difference here?
Criminal vs. Law Enforcement?

[OldSiouxWarrior]

78. Would you say the same thing if the perp were pointing the gun at you?

Let's see. Perp is escaped convict, has killed a human, is armed and is aiming the gun at another human.

What do you think SWAT should do? Call for a counselor? Ask him what is bothering him? Offer to let him watch Barney cartoons?

That is a human that the perp is taking aim at. Suppose you are that human that is being aimed at. What instruction will you now give to SWAT?

[Tesha]

83. If I were the cop, it would be my sworn duty to uphold the law.

Remember the law?

It used to call for things like due process.

But DUers don't seem to care about that when it
comes to cops, so please don't be surprised when
cops start executing protesters for treason; after
all, it's a capital crime too!

[OldSiouxWarrior]

92. Please tell me the due process as the perp is aiming the gun at you.

The due process for a someone attempting to unlawfully shoot another human has always been to shoot the perp. That goes back as far as I can remember. In fact, police procedures have become more restrictive. When I was a child, a cop you shoot you if you ran from the cop. I didn't matter what you had done, or why you were running away, if he said stop and you didn't, the cop could shoot. That is no longer the case, and it is a good thing. But in the case of someone aiming a gun, what due process can you do in the next fraction of a second to stop the perp from shooting.

You ducked the question that I asked, because you don't like the answer. Let's try again. Escaped convict has just killed a human. Now the perp is aiming the gun at another human. You are that human. What "due process" do you want the cops to do? A real world answer would be nice.

[civildisoBDence]

99. Of course you're right, OldSiouxWarrior

It's way too easy to criticize the police when you've never had a gun pointed at you.

Many of the same people who whine about the use of force would be the very first to whine if the lack of such force led to the loss of innocent life.

And too many liberals fail to distinguish between innocent life and the lives of worthless murdering scum (as in, pro abortion, anti death penalty...an obvious logical inconsistency.)

Newsprism

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

106. I'm pro-abortion and anti death penalty.

And I see no logical or moral flaws in my reasoning on these views. On the other hand, I also have no problem with the police shooting someone who's threatening them with a gun.

[w4rma]

156. I doubt you are pro-abortion, although I suppose it is possible.

Most likely you are pro-choice.

[Solon]

98. I'm the last person to defend cops...

However, in the case you mentioned, there was an IMMINENT THREAT TO ANOTHER LIFE, that is the ONLY litmus test as to what is required for an officer to use DEADLY FORCE! The Suspect could have dropped the gun, and NOT get shot, but he was the one who made a choice, SWAT acted appropriately, in that particular case.

This isn't the same as attacking UNARMED protestors or those practicing peaceful civil disobedience. All law enforcement are charged with upholding the law, and also to PROTECT the public, if police officers acted as you apparently think they should, they would either be dead or charged as an accessory to a crime. What do you want? For police officers to wait till the guy kills someone before they act?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

104. In this case he already had killed somebody! n/t

[liberalhistorian]

118. Wait for someone to be killed before they act?

Too often, the cops kill/shoot first, THEN ask questions. I'm as sick of police worship and idolization as I am of military idolization.

[OldSiouxWarrior]

119. In this case, he had already done exactly that.

He had just killed some one. And is now aiming his gun at another human. So NOW what do you want the cops to do? Wait until he kills twice??

Let's say that he hasn't killed yet, but is aiming the gun at you. Yes, at you personally. Now what do you want the cops to do?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

102. You don't seem to understand the law at all.

The law most certainly provides for police officers to defend themselves if they're about to be shot. There are plenty of cases where the cops have shot first & asked questions later, but this is hardly one of those situations.

[Tesha]

130. As I've said before. we'll see if you sing the same tune when...

> You don't seem to understand the law at all.
>
> The law most certainly provides for police officers to defend
> themselves if they're about to be shot.

As I've said before. we'll see if you sing the same tune when
the cops shoot protesters who foolishy choose to throw rocks
and bottles (after all, "the cops' lives were in jeopardy!") Or
maybe the priotesters just didn't turn and run fast enough
so the cops "felt threatened".

DUers are apparently as willing as most other cross-sections
of society to justify fascism when it's convenient for them.

Some of you make me sick.

Tesha

[OldSiouxWarrior]

131. Could you please answer my post # 83?

I will ask it again. What "due process" would you want the police to follow if a person who had just killed another human was now aiming a gun at you? Real world answer please.

[Tesha]

139. I believe the cops could have...

I believe the cops could have come up with a method to capture the
fellow without killing him.

*IF* they had wanted to, which they didn't.

Tesha

[OldSiouxWarrior]

148. That's not a real world answer.

Bad guy has just killed a human. He is aiming the gun at you. In a fraction of a second, he will shoot. What "due process" can the cops do in a half second. It seems that you want the bad guy to be able to continue to shoot people until he runs out of ammo.

Sometimes, situations become extreme, and extreme situations call for extreme measures.

You still haven't answered what plan of "due process" you would want the police to do when the bad guy is aiming the gun at YOU. You continue to duck that question.

[Tesha]

167. I call bullshit on your made-up scenario.

*THAT* wasn't the situation when the cops were "apprehending" this guy.

Look, it's simple: You're okay with the cops as Judge, Jury, and Executioner
and I'm not.

In the long run, we'll see who has the better position.

Tesha

[OldSiouxWarrior]

172. Made up scenario? It happens all the time.

It happened here in the town I live in. A nut case shot an innocent man, for no appearent reason, then turned his gun toward another person. A cop happened to be there and opened fire. There were witnesses plus it was caught on a C-store camera.

What "due process" would you want the cop in the above instance to do? What would you want the cop to do if YOU were the next person the shooter is aiming at.

You like to avoid that question, BUT IT REALLY DOES HAPPEN IN THE REAL WORLD.

[Name removed]

132. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madmusic]

194. Tesha, that isn't a good case to argue against police brutality.

The video is, but someone who just killed a cop, or anyone, still has a weapon and threatens with it, is not a good case. Yes, the number of rounds were overkill, but there are plenty of situations where firing is not justified at all. Save your justified rage for them. This video is a good example.

Just two counterfeit cents.

[Zhade]

127. You're talking to a poster who believes "Intelligent Design" is science.

Waste of time.

[havocmom]

57. Well done, cryingshame

Not all incidents with police are without cause.

[readmoreoften]

128. What about the baby they peppersprayed? Who'd he kill? /nt

[civildisoBDence]

96. Here's video of the Broward County, FL police shooting a protester

with rubber bullets, then laughing about it afterwards:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN9bKF5aWEU

Newsprism

[OldSiouxWarrior]

And that should be fully investaged, and if warranted,

charges should be filed. On the face of the video, it looks like the cops are totally wrong. The others should be stopping him.

[Divine Discontent]

155. she deserves

whatever amount of money that will bankrupt the horrible city of miami.

everyone in it should move, so we could put it under...

[fasttense]

7. The police attacked the crowd because the rich

people and the bushes didn't want to hear the protesters. So who's afraid the bushes will use the enabling act to label protesters enemies and whisk them away for life? It will only get worse.

[bif]

8. It WILL get worse

This footage is from 2002. The fascist administration has way more tools (laws) to control the people.

[havocmom]

14. Yeah, they have face ID of We The People

who insist on exercising our rights!

They will not take any risk of losing power in any election. They have gone too far. Nothing, NOTHING is off the table for what they might do.

A few years ago, I had a dream about a massive clash between peaceful marchers and police/military. From the looks of the surroundings, it was in the Pacific Northwest. Tens of thousands of people were on a highway, going toward a bridge over a river gorge. The authorities were charged with preventing them from crossing. It was tense, it was dangerous. Protesters knew they could easily be thrown from the bridge en masse. They knew they were sitting ducks for being shot. There was no escape route once they committed to walking the bridge. There was no place to run. No place to hide. They were taking the bridge anyway. A sea of humanity, Americans of all ages, races, walks of life.

They knew the had to cross the bridge at ANY COST.

And, in the end, they did. My dream did not show how the tide turned, only that it did. Was it the shear mass of people? Did the police/troops see loved ones in the crowd? Did they see themselves in the crowd?

The people had nothing by signs and numbers. And they crossed the bridge on a day after a rain, with sunlight beginning to break through the gloom. Tall trees covered the mountains and the sides of the gorge. Beautiful, tall trees, massive in size and numbers. There was some fear among the protesters, but the dominate emotions were determination and elation. They would not be stopped and they damned well knew it.

The dream ended with me going to visit someone who had a small, interesting, almost improvised home on a little ridge, surrounded by those trees. It was calm and I was grateful, relieved and very, very happy.

Sometimes I dream of what is to come.

[nashville_brook]

44. i dreamt of a bridge last night

it was a personal dream -- but BRIDGE symbolism is quite powerful.

i simply love your dream. and i hope it comes true.

[havocmom]

51. Bridges, passages, troubled waters crossed

Yeah, let's hope and work toward the other end of the bridge.

[Megahurtz]

59. Sounds like they went to CANADA! n/t

[havocmom]

62. Nah, it was in the US

I could tell by the crowd. Some were tanned :D

[tblue]

77. Publicize it

We are reliving history. People will 'get it' if they see pictures.

[Corgigal]

107. That's exactly what happened

Business owners called the Mayor who turned around and contacted the Police Chief who was told to get this under control. Police don't just decide this issues , their is always a silent partner.

[annabanana]

10. k&r. . . . n/t

[madmusic]

11. You have the right to agree.

Otherwise you will be investigated. Free speech has long been a farce.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

13. witout a doubt,this should be on every NEWS channel. they arent NEWS

if they do not run this story and show what really happened. the person that spoke in this was perfect

[havocmom]

16. From your keyboard to Olbermann's moniter

Somebody give the man a link in case he and his staff miss this thread.

[seabeyond]

17. hence NEWS in big print. yes.... it should start with olderman

and dedicated the time. it is not short, but it is well worth the time watching. to get the WHOLE story

[southern_belle]

15. Be Afraid; be VERY afraid! n/t

:(

[girl gone mad]

142. No, don't be afraid.

Be aware and be empowered. Fascist regimes are absolutely dependent on a fearful populace. Without that, they wither and die.

[garybeck]

18. holy crap. i'm speechless.

[matcom]

19. its time we fought these fuckers back

[havocmom]

24. Yes, but we don't go into details or use certain words on the internet

they are watching, tracking and now have the suspension of Habeas Corpus. Fight them, but be like the protesters wise enough to wear bandanas ;)

[shadowknows69]

30. Or big Guy Fawkes masks

n/t

[havocmom]

36. LOL

me want one. But I am not in fighting trim. That caped outfit would look silly on me.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

121. does not matter. we ALL need them. Hell, DU should sell them.

HINT HINT GUYS! ! ! ! Why not sell DU fawkes masks?

[Chemical Bill]

93. When you fight the police...

you are not fighting the ones in power. This is called divide and conquor.

Bill

[babylonsister]

20. VERY scary stuff. I wonder what the cops think when

they get home? They are Americans, too.

[redqueen]

37. One word for ya: MILGRAM

majority won't bother to think at all... easier to 'just follow orders'

*ptui*

[Postman]

163. They don't think. They have no brains. They are robots.

Machiavellians.

[madmusic]

21. A lot more:

http://www.benfrank.net/nuke/ftaa112003/american_justice.html

[libnnc]

22. M-Fing kick

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:


:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

Can someone get this to Keith?

[meldroc]

25. Last protest I was at, I got photographed...

I know, it's a terrible camera phone pic, but basically, it's two guys on the roof of a Costco across the street from the protest. When one of the organizers (a sweet old lady without a single violent bone in her) called the Costco on her cell phone and told them there were guys on their roof, they said "We're not supposed to tell you, but they're FBI."

I forgot to get pictures of the signs I was holding. One of them said "I WANT MY LIBERTY BACK!!!" and the other one which I made on the spot with posterboard and a magic marker when we discovered our "audience" on the roof said "Hi Feds! Busted Foley yet?"

[Theres-a]

26. Scary stuff.

Big brother is always watching.

[meldroc]

29. Quick protest question

Being in Colorado, most of the protests I've been to were relatively small affairs, usually only a dozen people on a street corner, though the one where I got photographed above was the Oct. 5th event in Denver, and had maybe 150 people.

I'm interested in joining one of the HUGE protests, like the one in the video. Granted, I'm not looking forward to getting pepper-sprayed, tasered, clobbered with batons & jailed, but I do want to join one of the really big protests. Where and when do they happen?

[april]

34. when you ask Nov 8th

start reading about all the early games with the elections..we will take to the streets!

[havocmom]

33. My daughter makes SURE she gets photographed

Paints herself green, carries a big sign, and wears a certain style robe



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x5748276

She did a solo prefromance on July 4 too. The police probably looking for a short, green woman.

Lots of other protesters had friends take THEIR pictures next to her. We all enemy combatants now, folks.

Might as well take a stand. They are gonna have your photo, name, number and phone/internet records no matter how lawful you are. Either you are with them or you are their target. It is THAT SIMPLE

[lazyriver]

117. At the first protest I ever attended last month

there were quite a few people taking photos and video who did not seem to be part of the event. I thought it was peculiar but dismissed it as freelance photographers or even local press. However, I didn't see any photos of the rally or march nor any video on the local news in the following days. I wonder who those photographers really were and where my face and the faces of all the others fighting for peace are now on file.

[earthside]

129. I was there!

This was the World Can't Wait event in Arvada, Colorado.

The 'FBI' kept surveillence on us for the whole time of the gathering.

Yeah ... why did they need this information?

[Pacifist Patriot]

27. Whoa!

Scary stuff indeed.

[redqueen]

28. I posted that on another forum.

It needs to be distributed FAR and WIDE.

Pass it on.

[ellenfl]

31. kick for later! eom

[Squatch]

32. Powerful. Raises some powerful questions:

Like, why aren't Americans fighting back?

I guess as long as we're comfortable, getting Monster Thickburgers and $1.90 gas, we have no reason to rebel.

[redqueen]

38. Yup... too fat and happy for their own good... frogs in warming water.

:grr:

[leeroysphitz]

35. Fucking PIGS.

[bif]

41. "I definitely smell a pork product of some kind"

Love that line.

[personman]

85. More people need to get active in anarchist/anti-fascist causes.

Some self-defense training might not be a bad idea either, unless you have an affinity for the taste of boots and sticks.

Fuck the Police.

[RubyDuby in GA]

40. This made me cry. What happened to this country?

Do those asshole police forget that they are public servants whose job it is to serve and protect?

[nashville_brook]

46. me too. i was weeping before i even knew it.

the part that "hurts" the most... psychically hurts... is that they "cleared out the people" because of the FUCKING RICH REPUBLICAN FASCISTS IN THE HILTON.

it's that simple.

they are going to "clear us out" whenever we offend their tender sensibilities.

[RubyDuby in GA]

49. How do you tear gas a baby?????

They could have permanently damaged that child's eyes.
All because he was there peacefully assembled with his parents, learning about democracy and watching it die firsthand.

Violently throwing people to the ground who have done nothing more than hold up a sign. I've done that dozens of times. Am I next? Will I have to wear a Laura mask and a wig if I go to protest this godawful clusterfuck that is Iraq? Will I have to take someone along to videotape me to prove I do nothing wrong when I'm gassed and seek retribution? Have we really come to this?


:cry:

[whistle]

42. How often is this happening across the U.S. today, every day?

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

43. How did they acquire the police footage? FOIA?

I don't doubt this happened. The police beat up a lot of Vietnam war protesters back in the 60's and 70's.

I'd just like to know how the video was acquired. If it can be acquired via FOIA, it should be sued for after every protest anywhere.

[havocmom]

47. Keep it kicked

and send video link to everyone you can think of

[Sinti]

48. Not meaning to sound paranoid, but

If you go in a group it might be wise to establish some kind of uniform dress. Blue jeans, black or gray hooded jacket, and a mask like you can buy at the party store - especially good if they're all the same mask. It would be a lot better if they couldn't tell the protestors apart. After all, in demanding our rights, and the rights of others, we are not truly individuals, we are the single voice of the many - governed by consent, not by decree from on high.

They take these pictures and have facial recognition software - I'm going to assume they go together, there's no other logical reason for it. Later, when you've reached a certain level of "inappropriateness" in their eyes, they'll know who to look for. Your bank ATM machine may also have this software, as do many other places - office lobbies and the like. Microsoft has prototypes demonstrating how your computer can know who you are and generally whether or not you're busy and therefore unavailable for phone calls, IMs, and such - interesting stuff, not good in the wrong hands though.

[havocmom]

52. Might be wise to dress in layers

;)

[Sinti]

55. At least cover half of your face - I'd make them work a hell of a lot

harder to punish you for exercising what our forefathers considered to be "god-given" rights. JMHO

[kineneb]

58. mask

how 'bout Grocho Marx glasses and nose? May as well have some fun!

[Sinti]

60. Works for me :) n/t

[personman]

86. Some anarchist groups use methods similar...

Black blocs, where they organize in a large group, wear black and cover their faces. Unarresting...if you outnumber the cops by a good ratio you may be able to pull protestors away from them they are trying to arrest. Some interesting stuff if you google around for "direct action" or "black bloc" or "unarrest". There may some other good methods as well, one of the reasons it's important to organize.

-personman

[The Witch]

91. I vote for identical Guy Fawkes masks.

Sorry... couldn't resist. :evilgrin:

This scared the poopies out of me.

[truebrit71]

50. Wow. Just Wow.....

Fucking Pigs...

[dogday]

53. That film was shot in 2002 and things have become

progressively worse with the police and marches...

[Megahurtz]

54. What's extremely scary is:

are they planning to use this new law against protesters?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2424276

[bif]

61. Exactly

[Jose Diablo]

115. Generally, based on past performance

laws are not passed unless someone plans to use it.

Of course the police will do anything they are permitted to do and actually, like people everywhere they will also cross-over whatever line is placed in front, from time to time.

Get ready for DHS gestapo coming to your local police department. Why is Negroponti there? Think about it.

edit:typo

[hunter]

63. Is there a better link?

Gamers and myspace...

http://portland.indymedia.org/a22

[smoogatz]

64. Free Speech Zones

Very powerful. Of course, none of this should surprise anyone--our government now exists solely to protect the interests of the rich and powerful. Our vaunted "freedoms" are now nothing but a smokescreen: we have the right to shut the fuck up and go back to work. The KBR Concentration Camps are up and ready for what's going to happen after they steal the election in three weeks.

[bling bling]

65. I still don't believe it's a police state. In fact, I know it's not.

But I do think this is reprehensible. Who has authority over the Portland Police? Whoever that is ought to be sent this video from a thousand different people. Whoever made this video could organize a march to the mayors office or something and send a copy of the video to all media outlets before the march. There's got to be ways to get the media's attention on this and call out the Police for their abuse of power. The more people involved in a protest the more likely it will be to grab the media's attention.

This police department should be used as an example to all that you can't use cruel and unusual punishment to herd the people and get away with it.

Good work on the part of the people who made this video. Our right to protest is in jeopardy when the authority abuses their powers to intimidate the crowd. It's unacceptable.

But like I said before, submitting to this and calling it a police state is unempowering to the people. And that's wrong too. We're not completely powerless. It's a question of whether people want to stand up, get organized, and fight this.

[hunter]

66. "Unempowering..." you've got that right.

A bullshit link on a bullshit site.

Show me it's not.

[Selatius]

97. Woodrow Wilson would've been proud of these police officers.

Wilson actively searched and crushed anti-war activists in addition to targeting labor activists, socialists, anarchists, etc. Under Wilson, the right to protest didn't exist. He is perhaps one of the most authoritarian presidents we've had.

[OldSiouxWarrior]

133. True. He recruited tens of thousands of citizens to spy on each other.

They were to watch and report "unpatriotic behavior" on the part of their neighbors.

[personman]

111. Certainly didn't look like a people's state to me...

What exactly does a police state look like? I always thought it looked like a bunch of storm troopers in riot gear holding bludgeons and waiting for the order...and that's pretty much what I saw.

If calling this a police state is "unempowering" to you...well, dems get it enough about lacking back-bone, I'm not going to beat a dead horse. Maybe if we could quit giving our problems cozey names and start stoking a little righteous indignation we could start dealing with them.

-personman

[hunter]

134. The link thru bravoclan and myspace is B.S., and the film unempowering.

That's my take.

[Downtown Hound]

68. Excellent footage and very telling

I get tired of always hearing that it was the protesters that provoked the police into clamping down with brutal force. This video clearly shows otherwise.

[hunter]

69. No BS link:

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2006/06/08/18276801.php?printable=true

The Eye of the Storm (2006)

Producer: portland indymedia video collective
Audio/Visual: sound, color
Language: english
Keywords: police; surveillance; protest; portland; indymedia

Creative Commons license: Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike

I still call "unempowering" on this. (Thanks bling bling !)

On Edit:

bravoclan.com needs to modify their link. Inadvertantly or not, they may be violating the Creative Commons copyright.

[nashville_brook]

70. "unempowering" on the part of the film or the police?

i think it's quite empowering to know the truth of what happens to my privacy and SECURITY when i step into a "free speech zone."

[hunter]

71. You are unempowered as soon as you accept that "free speech zone."

But you knew that...

[nashville_brook]

75. yeah, i did -- my basic thought is quite "unempowering" about this

i think the Torture Law was designed to target dissent, PERIOD. i don't want to end up in a Halliburton Work Camp because i held a crappy sign at a crappy protest. no one does. shit -- i don't even have a family to worry about and i'm NOT WILLING to fall on that sword. sorry. i'm not. too old and most of the time in too much pain from health issues to go that distance. just kill me now, fuckurs.

i was reading in other thread on the Torture Law -- death of Habeus -- that a person in Turkey (?), South America (?) didn't realize how many people were disappearing and being put in detention. life goes on for those outside of the conflict. for those of us who need to participate, are we now facing DISAPPEARANCE for our actions and beliefs? should we start assuming this WILL SOON be the case? if so, how do we press on? how do we work smarter? what's it gonna take?

and oh, what are the elections going to bring?

[clu]

74. wow

kick

[lumpy]

112. Kick

v

[OldSiouxWarrior]

76. Police video are routine. Have been for years.

Look at the dash of the average patrol car and you will see a video camera. If I were a police chief I would have multiple video camera taking picture of the events too, for the legal protection of the officers. They are filming the event so that if violence happens, then they have a record of who did what to who and when. They would not be at the mercy of the edited video of the event stagers.

The answer for that is for the protesters to also take video. Then they will not be at the mercy of a cops edited video.

That doesn't mean this is a police state. People who say that are just posturing. It just means that the cops are using common sense.

[Bonobo]

79. Seen a lot of posts where you throw out the word "posturing".

What does that mean? I think that to you it means that they are making a mountain of a molehill.

I suspect you would say that until they dragged you away...

[OldSiouxWarrior]

80. Posturing. A form of acting.

Yes, I use the word a lot, because that is what it is - posturing. Many people try to take the posture that they are horribly oppressed when in fact they are remarkably free.

That I call stuff like this film as posturing does not mean I agree with Bush at all. But trying to claim that he is Hitler and that this is a dictatorship is posturing.

If this was really Nazi Germany translated to modern times, neither of us would be posting on a forum like DU.

Nor does posturing help the Democratic Party. Try telling middle America that Bush is Hitler and they will roll their eyes and dismiss you as a nut.

[Downtown Hound]

114. Well, given that middle America has largely gone along with Bush

until very recently over our explicit warnings, which have all turned out to be true, I'm not sure they're the best judges on this issue.

A couple of points about this video. First of all, it seems obvious that it was intended to gather information about individual protesters, not to keep a historical record of what happened. Perhaps you might want to read up on the tactics of oppressive regimes. This is exactly what they do. They gather intel on those they perceive to be the leaders of the opposition and use it against them.

Second, regardless of whether you think the video should have been there or not, the tactics of these officers was clearly way out of line. Attacking a crowd of peaceful protesters with pepper spray, arresting that one man for no apparent reason other than they thought he was their leader. Are you trying to say these are the type of actions that we should be seeing in a free society? I sure hope not.

The United States has had more than 200 years of institutions and ideals built up on the idea of freedom and democracy. Any kind of fascist government wouldn't be able to simply walk in and remove them instantaneously. They could however, slowly dissolve them under the guise of fighting a foreign enemy and the need for domestic security, and that's exactly what they have been doing. Just because we haven't reaceh the point YET to where we're disappearing in the middle of the night doesn't mean we're not experiencing fascism in this country. They just haven't gotten around to eliminating all of our freedoms yet, but they're working on it. If the police can decide that they can shut down a demonstration with brutal force because they don't like the message, then yes, what you have is ultimate police power, and by definition, a police state.

[FedUpWithIt All]

166. I suggest you look at a timeline of nazi Germany...

It took decades for the Nazis to reach the level that people recognise most easily. The previous steps were a slow and deliberate preperation for that state. If you look for comparisons of the early days and current America you may find some very disturbing and chilling parallells. The difference is the speed of progress. We are moving with a speed that Hitler could have only dreamed of. The lessons learned then are being used now. Steps used before are not necessary now. The government already knows what works and what does not.

I have posted the following dozens of times to different sites. I have seen it posted here several times. Learn from the past or relive it.

They Thought They Were Free

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html

[OldSiouxWarrior]

176. No, Hitler started with a large number of political killings

to consolidate his power. Bush is a poor President, but he isn't Hitler and the US isn't a police state. That's just absurd.

I have been hearing bull ever since the 1960's. With every Republican President, somebody on the left starts screaming Hitler. I have an old photo I took around somewhere of a protester in 1967 with a sign that read "US = swastika", so I have been hearing that stuff for over 40 years.

And I have been hearing about some revolution that is supposed to be about to happen for that long too.

[FedUpWithIt All]

181. I did not say we were in a police state...

but i can see the ducks lining up for one.

I think we need to be very cautious about ignoring the legitimate concerns about the changes that are happening. bush is in many ways inconsequential. He is simply a face man. Yet to dismiss him (and the machine that hides behind him) may prove to be a very dangerous bit of short sightedness.

As i mentioned in my previous post, historical reference must be viewed with the understanding that lessons were long ago learned. If, as many of us fear, the current changes like spying, detention camps, signing statements, approved torture, crackdown of dissent, the dissolving of the courts power and propaganda, are a power grab leading us to a fascist state, those in power will have learned from the mistakes of previous fascists and will likely not make the same mistakes.

They know what works. They know what doesn't. There is much room for debate about the likelihood of political killings over the decades that led to the power of those currently in the WH. The groundwork has been laid for decades and when the time was right the plan went into action. The "charismatic", "down to earth" son of a former US President is placed in power with the aid of a corrupt election system.

A tragedy happens. The tragedy is used start a war on anyone labeled a "terrorist". The definition of such "terrorists" is left to the discretion of the "selected" president. A war of profit is begun with lies. Anyone who attempts to point out the truth is either aggressively attacked or ignored. Under the guise of the need for protection, more rights and protections are taken away. Bills passed by the legislative are signed with disclaimers of greater power for the executive. Natural catastrophes are used in an attempt to grab even further power.

The courts that cross the "selected" president watch as their own powers are demoted. The Constitutional protections are further corroded with barely more than a whimper.

The next step will likely move in a similar direction. At what point does a nation recognize the danger they are in and say no more? Why don't we stop this progression before we reach the level that no longer affords us this ability? IMO it is only when the people wake up to what is happening. Unfortunately, this too is a lesson from the Nazis. The common man will go along if they feel they are made to feel they are in danger. The few who do not fall victim to the fear can be easily dismissed as unpatriotic. Legitimate concerns are drowned out with rhetoric. The people only know what the powers want them to know. They are kept in a state of economic and social struggles which serves to distract them. As long as each step is small enough to be replaced in the masses consciousness by the next nearly indiscernible step, the people will continue on lamenting their daily distractions un fazed. And so it goes.

No doubt politicians have been labeled fascist, nazis and Hitler in the past. But has this label ever fit so snuggly? If the shoe NOW fits shouldn't we pay attention?

[seabeyond]

88. the cops broke the law. they attack law abiding citizens

they put themselves beyond the law. they are not allowed to legally attack law abiding people any more than we are. we get arrested for what they did. fuck the videos

[OldSiouxWarrior]

101. The OP is being paranoid about the police making videos.

That is the part of the topic that I am speaking to. She want to restrict the police from being able to take videos. I disagree and think it is a good idea. The rest is a different topic.

The video provide excellent evidence to establish the truth of what actually happened, and knowing the truth is a good thing.

Have you watched some of the reality police dashboard video shows. I don't normally watch them, but sometimes I have. I remember one in which the police arrest a drunk driver, the woman was foul mouthed, claimed that she had important friends who would punish to officer, threatened him directly, threw a punch at him, and then screamed, "Police brutality" as he restrained her and handcuffed her. Now, when she shows up in court sober, well behaved, and well dressed, everybody gets to see for themselves what actually happened.

Police taking videos does NOT make the US a police state and I really get disgusted by the claims that we are a police state.

[seabeyond]

103. it is clear those videos being taken are not for history of what might

come about, but to get certain people who are at these rallyies and identifying the people. big difference than the video on a car. these are pruposely going after people to target them. if it was just a span view of what was happening you would have a point. that is not what is happening with the video

[Postman]

164. Get a brain.

Its not about the police taking videos to "protect themselves"

[High Plains]

183. Extensive apologetics for the police.

Do you really have no problem with:

Police surveilling peaceful exercises of the First Amendment?

Police singling out specific protesters (the guy with the "America Stop Sucking" sign) and beating them down and arresting them for no crime at all?

Police willfully and with malice aforethought pepper-spraying a peaceful crowd exercising its First Amendment rights?

Yeah, sure, we are not a Hitlerian police state...yet. But we seem to be heading in that direction.

I don't know too many old Sioux warriors who would apologize for this shit. Are you sure you're on the right board?

[Chemical Bill]

89. The police cameras don't mean...

it's a police state. The police actions mean it's a police state.

Bill

[OldSiouxWarrior]

94. Agreed. NT

[Postman]

162. common sense to shoot protestors?

who are engaged in peaceful protest?

Better check your armband, your swastika is showing...

[never cry wolf]

81. K&R, thanks for posting...... n/t

[boolean]

84. Jesus. Are these cops not American?

What makes them turn into that? How does it happen? How do the cops forget who they are and what the country stands for?

[seabeyond]

95. this is what i wonder. they are our neighbors, brothers, sons...

there kids go to school with our kids. this is what i do not understand either. and this was not just one or two cops. this was all those cops and not a singleone of them had the ethics to say.... we cannot hit them, or spray them.... that is WRONG

not one of them, thought it was wrong.

that bothers me

[Selatius]

100. They can't claim "they were just following orders" either, in my opinion

They tried that excuse 60 years ago. It didn't go over well with the tribunal.

[seabeyond]

105. i tell my son to hit someone. he gets in trouble. i get in trouble

i dont give a shit if they are following orders, they either oppose breaking the law, or they do it willfully

[file83]

137. I sort of have an answer for you in this post below...(link)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2431839&mesg_id=2436471

[goforit]

87. Well, I guess we can't sit around and watch any more.

The rethuglicans can't take any critism.

[me b zola]

90. k&r

:(

[Name removed]

108. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NotGivingUp]

109. that was nauseating

[anarch]

110. the main purpose of the police in the U.S. has pretty much always been

to protect the interests of wealthy elite and their corporations. Sorry to any law enforcement people who might be offended by this, and I don't mean anything personal, but that has pretty much always been what the police are for. Any public assistance work or other law enforcement activity has always been secondary to protecting the interests of the elite. Actually, I could say the same thing about most of our governmental agencies....

[Rex]

113. Can't let the rabble interrupt Bush's whorefest.

"We live in a time where corporations control the people and the government."

[Chulanowa]

116. The Portland police are vermin

...plain and simple.

[devilgrrl]

120. There was a random license check in Pasadena, CA today!

Is it totalitarianism yet?

[Megahurtz]

147. WTF???

Are you serious?:wow:

For what???

[devilgrrl]

169. Checking for outstanding warrants, etc...

That's what their excuse was. :shrug:

[OldSiouxWarrior]

173. That happened to me in 1977.

Was it totalitarianism then? Carter was President.

[genie_weenie]

122. The issue of who has the power in America was decided long ago.

The people have been deluded into believing they control the Nation. Captains of Industry, Governmental Rulers/ High Level Military members have run America since it's inception.

I don't see the problem.

Elections are rigged? So what? They always have been.

Memebers of Congress are corrupt and use their position and influence to enrich themselves and their cronies? So What? They always have.

The Government uses the police and courts to constrict/control/disrupt/destroy movements that seek to overthrow the current system? So what? They always have.

I'll vote. I'll vote to throw out every current sitting member at every level of government, but so what? The new Rulers will become infected in the same ways as the old ones and nothing will change.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

123. I'm Speechless. Just Sitting In My Chair, Shaking My Head From Side To

side, utterly speechless.

Every one of those cops should be in jail for assault.

[genie_weenie]

124. Haymarket Square 1886, "someone" threw a bomb...

[onenote]

125. not meaning to diminish this, but sadly its nothing new

In the 70s, during the Vietnam war, it was well known that the feds had set up shop across the street from a draft counseling center run by the Quakers where you could go to get advice on how to avoid the draft (i.e., provided informaton on "draft doctors", information on going to Canada, etc) and would take pictures of everyone as they left the center. In fact a lot of folks leaving the clinic would wave in the direction of the building across the street as they exited.

It sucked then and it sucks now.

[Metta]

126. Painfully obvious. Recommended.

thanks for posting.

[file83]

135. I know a Portland cop that has a wife and kids - he says he LIKES roughing

up people - that it's fun. He likes putting on the riot gear and having the "authority" to do whatever he wants. I heard this from a mutual friend who still keeps in touch with him.

I knew him in high school - he was a HUGE fan of professional wrestling (you know, like Hulk Hogan in the WWF).

He's a smart guy, college educated (we went to the same liberal University together). He's nice even, but he has a dark side.

And I believe that is what the police force looks for, the kind of psychological profile that has a sadistic/confrontational predisposition. These kinds of men don't care about anything like "rights" or the "U.S. Constitution". All they know is that they get to fuck people up and be completely protected by the state when they do.

I'm sure it's the same kind of psychological profile of men that wore the Brownshirts and Jackboots for Hitler in WWII - and had no problem doing what they were told - because they derived personal enjoyment from hurting others.

[Joanne98]

192. Can you imagine what he does to the wife, kids and dog?

sick fuckers

[Chico Man]

136. Makes me want to build that MySpace page I've always wanted!

Yeah, that's the ticket! I'll give them a complete personality profile and all the images they could ever ask for!

[hunter]

144. I'll be Gandolf, you can be Frodo...

I was frodo last time.

[bobbie]

138. Oh I believe it, but evidence is good to have

Thank you for posting this.

[Monk06]

140. If you listen close the police identity one of their informants, "Elias"

[Jcrowley]

141. Guess what

"We're gonna spray and push, spray and push"

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than
those who falsely believe they are free."

-Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

 A police state exists when federal and state political and police mechanisms:

1) Shut down media coverage after they steal an election

2) Serve the central government instead of serving the citizens

3) Enforce the policies of the central government instead of responding primarily to criminal misdeeds

4) Spy on and intimidate citizens

All these conditions now exist in the United States.

- In a free society, police agencies respond to evidence of planned and actual criminal activity.

- Police officers in a free society keep the peace; they do not investigate citizens and activities unless there is some reason to investigate.

- In a free society, police do not investigate citizens' attitudes toward the central government, only their action.

- Citizen dissent is lawful in a free society and police agencies do not investigate citizens' attitudes toward the criminal justice apparatus.

Those conditions no longer exist in the United States.

Scores of U.S. cities are now using surveillance television camera systems to spy on citizens--shades of 1984. With video cameras perched atop buildings and poles, watching whatever American are doing, do you suppose there might be some potential for abuse in such systems? Christian Parenti's, article, "DC's Virtual Panopticon," in the June 3, 2002 issue of The Nation describes how "police in Detroit and DC have used CCTV to stalk personal foes, political opponents and young women." Smile, you're on Kandid Kamera.

"Guess what. This is fascism"

K&R

[Megahurtz]

146. Seig Heil!

:sarcasm:

Fascism never died with Hitler. :(

[Temporary1]

145. I did roleplaying for Homeland Security

And my sis works there. This sort of stuff is the tip of the iceberg as far as surveillance, unfortunately.

[buddysmellgood]

149. Scary indeed. The woman's voice is scary. The best question repeated

throughout... What are they doing with that information? It's not that they take the information, it is what they do with it. They are free to shoot all the tape they want, but they should not be allowed to act on it without oversight. They have proven they can't be trusted.
That said, all cops are not bad. All protesters are not good.

[Canuckistanian]

150. "Push and spray. Push and spray."

That's what will stay with me.

And the "thrown bottle" lie is a classic example of disinformation which justifies the violence.

[Divine Discontent]

153. Good heavens...

very angry watching this... son of a bitchesssss sick bastards...



Olbermann needs to show this and discuss it. The swat team's preparing the attack to silence them is a terrorist attack on civiled protest.


What's being done about this - I'll read all the posts. I know this was 4 years ago, but now that they have their video, sounds to me like some few dozen cops need arrested.

[Liberal In Texas]

154. Shades of the 60's. Thank god there are enough people out there

to actually mount protests like this.

Police state? Oh yeah.

Keep this kicked and recommended. I've seen this video before, but we need to be aware of what we are up against.

V

[sce56]

157. As seen before Same sh*t different a$&hole!

October 17, 2006,Will be remembered as the Enabling day of the 21st Century!
"The government will make use of these powers only insofar as they are essential for carrying out vitally necessary measures..."
~Adolf Hitler, March 23, 1933, before the German Parliament (Reichstag) as he urged them to pass his "Enabling Act"



http://www.georgewalkerbush.net/bush-nazilinkconfirmed.htm




Got Fascism Yet?

[Liberal In Texas]

158. Good post. I agree. n/t

[tom_paine]

159. Incredible. Powerful. Truthful. Saddening. Maddening.

http://bravoclan.com/ppmaps/index.html

On the other hand, to be fair, police have been doing shit like this forever, even back in the Old Republic of the USA, where freedom (some good degree of it) presumably existed.

But the compilation of elecvtronic dossiers, Total Information Awareness, is frightening and in the context of what has happened since the old USA died makes this police riot (latest in a lond history of them in nations both free and enslaved) much more ominous.

[hunter]

190. I wonder if myspace is part of Total Information Awareness?

Or bravoclan? Or tom_paine?

:shrug:

I think I'd rather get the video someplace else, properly attributed, not branded by myspace, maybe by starting here:

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/02/333979.shtml

[donheld]

160. Chilling

What kills me is that the police are so brainwashed. Do they care about their rights as individuals? They should be on our side.

[IntiRaymi]

189. By and large, cops are stupid.

They are selected that way.

[Califooyah Operative]

161. wow. nt

[SteppingRazor]

168. Meh, I already knew it was a police state. I was in Miami in Nov. 2003...

anyone who was at the FTAA protests is well aware of the kind of society we live in, however carefully hidden behind a facade of protect-and-serve and consumerist distraction.

[jarnocan]

170. thanks hadn't watched it glad I did! Westfield NJ

they arrested kids just to break up crowd as well but not as violent,also kids in NY had not done anything wrong and Charlotte, NC-a couple weeks ago, where a band member was maced and had broken ribs and puntured lung.

[bif]

171. I heard that was a huge police state crackdown

[SteppingRazor]

175. Yeah, I wrote down my recollections after the tape came out last August...

http://blogs.southflorida.com/citylink_dansweeney/2006/08/sadistic_cops_and_the_ftaa_my.html

http://blogs.southflorida.com/citylink_dansweeney/2006/08/more_on_sadistic_broward_sheri_1.html

Suffice to say, it was pretty crazy.

[bif]

178. Excellent piece!

I heard the cops were totally out of control.

[SteppingRazor]

180. Yeah, it was pretty bad...

what else is there to say that wasn't in those links I posted? Half the damn police force should have faced charges for their actions that day. It was really eye-opening.

[electron_blue]

174. bookmarking for later

[seabeyond]

177. i saved for my boys to watch. not to convince others,but so they

could visibly see. we talk about it, but to have proof it does happen is important.

[helderheid]

179. OH MY GOD.

I've got chills and tears welling up.

[redqueen]

182. And it's not only happening here... this is global.

We ALL need to be aware of this, so please distribute as often as possible.

I think this would make an excellent scary halloween e-mail to send to friends and family.

I think I'll title mine: "Think it can't happen here? Think again."

[bif]

184. It may be global

But think of how free we used to be compared to now in this country.

[redqueen]

186. Yup... we've fallen the farthest...

because we had the most freedom...

when I think of our Bill of Rights... :cry:

:kick:

[Jcrowley]

185. The Marine Corps

has expanded its domestic intelligence operations and developed internal policies in 2004 to govern oversight of the "collection, retention and dissemination of information concerning U.S. persons," according to a Marine Corps order approved on April 30, 2004.

The order recognizes that in the post-9/11 era, the Marine Corps Intelligence Activity will be "increasingly required to perform domestic missions," and as a result, "there will be increased instances whereby Marine intelligence activities may come across information regarding U.S. persons." Among domestic targets listed are people in the United States who it "is reasonably believed threaten the physical security of Defense Department employees, installations, operations or official visitors."

Perhaps the prime illustration of the Pentagon's intelligence growth is CIFA, which remains one of its least publicized intelligence agencies. Neither the size of its staff, said to be more than 1,000, nor its budget is public, said Conway, the Pentagon spokesman. The CIFA brochure says the agency's mission is to "transform" the way counterintelligence is done "fully utilizing 21st century tools and resources."

One CIFA activity, threat assessments, involves using "leading edge information technologies and data harvesting," according to a February 2004 Pentagon budget document. This involves "exploiting commercial data" with the help of outside contractors including White Oak Technologies Inc. of Silver Spring, and MZM Inc., a Washington-based research organization, according to a Pentagon document.

[bif]

187. One more kick

Because I feel it's important for everyone to see this video

[Joanne98]

191. I can only get audio on myspace and the other link is confusing.

Is it on youtube or google videos yet?

[benevolent dictator]

193. kick.

[drr1959]

195. George W Bush looking like a fool!

Everyone should have one of these shirts:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190043968265

[SPKrazy]

196. Fucking Fascist Bastards

is this really surprising though?

The only surprise is the date, 2002

Fascism didn't start with Bush

the law enforcement community has been working this direction for a long time I think

fascist bastards

[redqueen]

197. Anyone miss this?

:kick: