a couple of DUers asked that I post this as a separate thread . . .

[OneBlueSky]

it's a response I posted to this thread a few days ago . . . (thanks grace 0418 and Bluerthanblue) . . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2348402

my lead quoted the poster who started the thread (Frazzled Educator) as follows . . .

"You can see it . . . damaged goods, damaged esteem, fractured egos and low self-worth. No one rips these kids apart more than these kids." . . .

and this is the response I posted (cleaned up a bit for punctuation, better wording, etc.) . . .

that is s-o-o-o-o-o true! . . .

years ago, I was a specialized foster care provider to troubled teens . . . the organization I worked for took a select group of the toughest kids in the system -- those who had been in constant trouble but had done nothing really violent -- and placed them in homes with individuals or couples they called mentors . . . mentors were paid as full-time employees (albeit modestly) to take one of these kids and give him or her their full attention for anywhere from six to 24 months, depending on the kid . . . the goal of this concentrated kind of attention was to help them become independent, productive, law-abiding citizens . . . since the program cost a hell of a lot less per kid than either group homes or institutionalization, it was an attractive option for the state . . .

anyhow, the second kid who came to live with me arrived on his 16th birthday accompanied by a caseworker carrying a birthday cake . . . they came in, we sat around the kitchen table getting acquainted for 15 minutes, and then the caseworker was off and the kid was my responsibility . . . pretty daunting at the time, let me tell you . . . (the first words out of his mouth after the caseworker left were "I wanna tell you right now, I'm NOT going to school!" . . . to which I replied something like "Whoa . . . how 'bout a 'Hi, nice to meetcha first?'") . . .

reviewing this kid's records and talking with him revealed that he'd been in constant trouble since he was about eight years old -- or half his young life . . . everything from stealing to drugs to bullying to acting out sexually -- but, as I said, no history of real violence . . . (his latest -- the reason he was coming to live with me -- was stealing a bread truck in Massachusetts and driving it, with a friend, to Disneyworld in Florida, where they were nailed after running a stop sign) . . . and for most of those eight years, every adult in his life -- family, caseworkers, group home staffs, foster parents -- everyone had told this kid, in no uncertain terms, what a rotten person he was, and that if he didn't shape up, he'd be in jail or dead before he was twenty . . .

now, when you're a pre-adolescent, and every adult in your life constantly tells you what a rotten kid you are, you're going to end up believing it! . . . after all, these are the adults charged with your care, right? . . . so they must know what they're talking about, right? . . . which means that, hey, you really are a rotten kid, a bad person . . .

when a kid grows up believing that he's a bad person -- because everyone has told him so, over and over and over -- well, by god, the kid is going to live up to those expectations! . . . ("They want a bad kid? . . . Well, I'll give 'em a bad kid!") . . . he'll keep acting out and getting into more and more trouble -- usually progressively worse trouble -- until he is indeed either in jail or dead . . . it's a self-fulfilling prophesy, perpetuated by those charged with his care . . .

after knowing this kid for only a short time, I determined that he was NOT a rotten kid or a bad person . . . he was actually a pretty good kid -- amiable, outgoing, great sense of humor, eager to learn -- who life had shit on repeatedly . . . and who, after being shit on repeatedly, had made a lot of really bad choices about "who to be" and how to behave . . . and for the next two years, I spent a great deal of my time trying to convince him of that fact . . .

convincing this kid that he was, in fact, a good person who had merely (albeit regularly) behaved badly was an enormous challenge -- and it really did require my full time attention over a two year period . . .

but ya know something -- it worked! . . .

the kid got a job in a wood shop, which he ultimately held for almost a decade before moving on to something else . . . he got his GED and his driver's license . . . he met a really nice girl, they had a kid together, and when the kid was about three, they invited me to a beautiful church wedding (the kid was the flower girl) and reception . . . they eventually bought their own house, fixed it up, and sold it for a nice profit before moving on to something better . . . they even invited his father (from whom he'd been estranged for years) to come live with them, relax, and enjoy his golden years playing with his granddaughter . . . more than 20 years later, he still stays in touch regularly, and I can''t tell you how proud I am of all he's accomplished . . .

and all it took was two years of concentrated attention, caring, and love to undo the damage that state child "services" had done to him over half his life . . .

[niyad]

1. thank you so much for posting this. why is it so hard for people

to see that constantly telling kids how worthless they are is a self-fulfilling prophecy?

in one of wayne dyer's books, he talks about a group--tribe--I think, and how they handle wrongdoing. in it, he described a young man who had stolen, or something, and he was summoned to a council. he was put in the center of a circle of elders and villagers, who took turns, NOT scolding or criticizing or berating him, but telling stories of all the good things he had done. they felt that this restored and healed the broken or damaged spirit that had caused him to act against his own good and that of the community.

interesting way to go, I think. and kudos to you for rescuing what could so easily have been one of our lost ones.

[Delphinus]

26. I remember,

hearing him speak about this on one of his PBS shows. Wonderful way of handling something like that - the only thing is I'm not sure how we could do that in the society in which we live.

[Little Star]

2. You made a big difference in someones life.

You will truly leave this earth better than you found it. Good on You! Thanks for sharing that. :hug:

[Hav]

3. .

Thank you for posting that and also a thank you for the work you do.
And indeed, the point you make is so true. So many people just need a chance instead of the usual "You are a loser. You are stupid. You will never achieve anything."

[lyonn]

4. So, it wasn't religion that helped this boy?

Just had to say something sarcastic since we hear so much from the repub. side of good and evil and how to "fix" it. Kindness and understanding goes a long way. Of course it won't help all, but, for those on the edge like the kid you described it can turn their life around. Not knocking religion, just making a point that honesty with others and truly caring is the bottom line. Much thanks to people like you. I have met a few in my life that discovered this truth and were able to help those kids living on the edge.

[ellenfl]

5. my only regret at being childless (by choice)

was not having someone to give that kind of support. i was not the victim of negativity as much as the opposite . . . no one ever told me my worth. i have had low self-esteem for my entire life. loving unconditional support is so important to every human being. it's a shame there is so little of it around. it would certainly do much to stop the bad acts of kids nowadays . . . and maybe even of pseudo-grownups (dubya?).

congratulations on your (and his) success.

ellen fl

[druidity33]

28. how about...

being a mentor or big sister? There are a lot of kids out there that could use a kind word and a shoulder to lean on occasionally...

[CabalPowered]

6. Kudos for a job well done! One reccomendation..

I've seen the Positive Action program do this for lots of troubled kids. I think it's a great resource for those teachers dealing with troubled students.

http://www.positiveaction.net/

[knowbody0]

7. Thank you for saving this child

I fostered over 50 kids before three "feral" siblings ages 4,4& 5 were placed in my home. These kids were covered with cigarette burns, had been sexually abused, left for days locked in a car deep in the woods, gone without food, and much worse. the oldest child hopped out of the CPS van, looked me in the eye and said "hi, mom. do you smoke?" Her courage was profound.
It was as if the universe demanded we connect, and 2 years later I adopted them.
That was 11 years ago. My oldest daughter is on the honor roll, my son has a 3.2 gpa and in the 9th grade was on the varsity wrestling team, my youngest daughter gets "so so" grades with incredible artistic talents. All three are thriving beyond any expectations, have a boat load of friends, and are really supportive of one another.
Many people ask, "how did you do that?" I honestly do not know. Early on I realized the one thing they did respect was my food and I guess I did bribe them. Good behavior in the grocery store rendered an ice cream, and it was really hard to watch others enjoy, good table behavior meant desert, etc...but mainly, I give THEM the credit. When they arrived, hope had been taken away from them, solutions for problems was NOT a concept for them. It was a reprogramming process that fit these particular kids like a glove.
Today I am the proud mother of 3 biological, 3 adopted, and one grandson. I stay in touch with many I had fostered, and god mother to one of their babies.

I am convinced that children most often become what they are told they will become, imprints on their brains that dictate their futures. One little girl always tells me that the only house she ever felt safe to sleep in was mine.

I never imagined this as my life, but cannot articulate how wondrous it has become. It is amazing, the power of love.

[suziedemocrat]

24. Great story - makes me want to be a foster parent.

But I know it's a lot of work.

[gully]

8. What an inspiring story.

Thanks for sharing.

[madokie]

9. Thats the best thing I've read in a long while.

but what you say is so true, its human nature. I think all to be parents should have to attend classes or at least read about what it takes to be a parent to mold a child into a good caring person.

[Mind_your_head]

10. Beautiful.....thank you for posting this

"I can't change the world, but if I can change just one life for the better...."

and if we all had the courage to do this....

[immoderate]

11. I have a similar story.

I taught a group of inner city kids with low esteem and high frustration levels. I got that picture when the first kid I marked wrong on something tore up his paper and walked out. From that point, and for some time, I didn't mark anything wrong, but I looked for the best thing I could find on a student's paper, circled it, and put a star next to it, and praised the effort behind it. It worked wonders.

After a month of this, I had gained their trust, and could say pretty much anything I wanted.

Jump to a few years later. I was walking a student to his first job interview. In preparation, I was telling the story of one of his predecessors, an angry and confrontational young lady to whom I had taught the art of agreement. I told how I had given her exercises in agreeability, which consisted of me making outlandish statements, and she expressing agreement with them, no matter what she felt. And then I would have her introspect and examine the positive feelings that being in agreement led to. As I talked, a voice behind me said, "You should listen. That man knows what he's talking about."

It was that same young lady, now in business clothes, and carrying a brief case, and a broad smile. We greeted warmly, and I asked what she was doing. "Oh, I work in public relations."

--IMM

[chill_wind]

12. K&R to celebrate the human goodness in this thread.

I could be wrong, and not that I would really trouble to do it-- but I'd bet I could search that other part of America at The Free Republic for a month and never find a conversation like this.

Thank you for it.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

13. Very touching story about making a difference

And I totally agree that pre-adolescents are incredibly succeptible to believing they are what you tell them they are.

On a much lighter scale, I see this with one my son's friends. He struggles in school (5th grade) but he's not stupid; he's a wonderful kid with a great sense of humor and a great personality, I love him like he's one of my own, he's over here so much. But somewhere along the line either genetics or public school or parenting (probably a combination of the 3) failed him, and he's been told -- by his own parents even -- that he's not smart, he might as well just be a jock.

I can see this kid already giving up on school, figuring he'll get through by doing the minimum and being good at sports. The teachers and even his parents have seemed to already have labeled him as a not-so-smart kid, and I'm sure that message will be passed along as he continues to go through the school system. Sad.

[knowbody0]

14. some kids simply cannot learn

the standard way, they need a more hands on application. Abstract thought comes hard.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

15. Agreed. This may be the case with this kid.

He is sharp, when I observe him playing with my son; they are always inventing new games and businesses to start and they have elaborate stuff going on.

And once he learns something, he knows it. He just seemed to have missed some basics; for example, he can barely write a coherent sentence. Most of the time I think he just doesn't try.

Also, kids are so perceptive; I'm sure he knows he is thought of as "the dumb one," which is so unfair. His mom would often call the 2 boys (her son and mine) "The Brawn and the Brain". Now how do you think that makes either of these kids feel??

[knowbody0]

17. my own two sons were like that

together, they would be one perfect person.

He's lucky to spend time with you, I am sure he's getting positive strokes.

P.S. they are business partners today, and very successful.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

19. That's so cool (that they are business partners)

I suspect they are already perfect, individually.

I try to give this kid a lot of respect and love, because he has such a good heart. His parents are divorcing right now, and in a very ugly way, using the kids as pawns, talking bad about the other one in front of the kids, the usual crap.

Both are die-hard Repubs, by the way. The wife is because she just doesn't have any critical thinking skills ("George Bush just seems like such a nice man"); the husband is smarter but brainwashed by Hannity and Limbaugh. We have good debates sometimes, but it usually ends up with him suggesting we nuke all Muslims or falling back on that old classic that the Dems have "no ideas." I always win. :)

So I feel for the kid. He's been exposed to a lot of homophobia and racism and ugly behavior, and I try to provide a good loving environment when he's here. Don't get me wrong, his parents love him very much, but I worry he will end up being intolerant just like his dad or unquestioning like his mom.

He likes rock music, so I'm subtly introducing him to protest rock, like the guy in my sig, and Pearl Jam, and Green Day. Just trying to open his mind a little, but mostly I focus on treating him like he's just as smart as everyone else.

[knowbody0]

21. you are now in my heart.

he will remember you forever. my boys are 29 and 31 now, and their friends still stop by now and again. Music is an awesome way to reach the mind!
BTW, if they are not too young for the realities of war, I recommend some of Ava's stuff to keep him out of the military.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

22. Thank you

I realized at a young age that adults other than your parents can have a big influence. I had great parents, but also was deeply influenced by some of my friends' parents who truly cared about me.

The day I hit bottom and decided to get clean I called my best friend's mom, who had been like a second mom to me when I was a teenager and who I knew was in the program. She was the only adult I could think of who was sober and who I knew loved me without judging me. She told me to get to an AA or NA meeting, and I did. That was over 15 years ago, and I might not be here to help my son's friend if it weren't for this woman answering the phone that day and loving me like I was her own kid.

And I don't think my son's friend is destined for the military. His dad is a chickenhawk Republican; he wants to blow up the Muslims but not using his kid. Or maybe he just thinks there are too many gays in the military.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

16. I observed my mother teaching kindergarten, and she was always

quick to praise kids when they did something right. "I appreciate that you all listened and paid attention when I was reading the story" "Michael, you played so nicely with everyone all morning and didn't get into a single fight." "Emily, that was so kind of you to try to help Sarah when she skinned her knee."

Her philosophy was that you couldn't let consistent bad behavior go uncorrected but you also had to reinforce the kinds of behavior you wnat to see continue.

I taught college students, not kindergartners, but I soon learned that one of the most effective means of motivating the slower students was giving prizes at the end of the term (some little trinket from Japan, usually) for the three students had improved the most between midterm and end of the term.

I notice that "Super Nanny" follows a similar philosophy. It's just common sense, really.

Some of the worst behaving kids I've seen (aside from the ones who are just allowed to run wild as their parents smile dotingly) are those whose parents are uptight and overcritical.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

20. It's the same when managing people (adults):

If you set high expectations, people will typically live up to them. Conversely, if you set low expectations, they will reach those too.

[aikoaiko]

18. After working with a bunch of kids in a group home, I cam to the...

...realization that giving this kind of attention sometimes works, and it sometimes has to do with matching certain kids with certain adults. There were some kids with whom I could never make a differnce but others it seemed like progress could get made. Other counselors could reach other kids.

And then again, there were the screwups who left when they were 18, who I assumed would be in jail within a few months, but they got their acts together spontaneously after leaving the program. Some of us counselors thought maybe it was just a delayed reaction or that things had sunk in despite the poor behavior in the program. Sometimes I wondered if their progress had anything to do with us counselors at all and their success was their own based on their maturation.

[OneBlueSky]

23. thanks, everyone, for all the nice comments . . .

one thing I neglected to emphasize in my post is that I give this kid all the credit for pulling himself out of his "I'm rotten" mindset and discovering what a good person he actually is . . . all I did was provide an environment where that could happen -- he did all the work . . .

and I hope I didn't leave an impression that things were peachy-keen from the day he arrived at my home, because they weren't . . . the bad behavior continued for some time, and I once even had to bail him out of jail (he didn't do it, and charges were dropped) . . . but no matter what he did, I never once even hinted that I might throw him out, as so many other adults in his life had done . . . and I really think that made a huge difference . . .

thanks again for your comments . . .

[suziedemocrat]

25. Your post is truly inspirational!!! Thanks!!

[LWolf]

27. Something

I was told recently;

Having taken responsibility for a young family member who was the victim of neglect and abuse his first 4 years on the planet, I've spent 2 years pouring love and care into this child, to limited effect.

One of his therapists told me this summer that he'd experienced 4 years of abuse; the critical first years of development. They expected it to take double that for him to have healed/rewired/fully developed new patterns, and I'm only 2 years into that process. A reason given for his seeming inability to transfer positive behaviors learned in our home to settings outside the home.

I'm glad your two years make a difference; I sure hope I can say the same when this little boy is a man.

[OneBlueSky]

29. I wish you all the best . . . perhaps my kid's makeup was . . .

sufficiently strong that he was able to respond to positive reinforcement better than some . . . or perhaps his early years weren't as traumatic as ages 8 through 16 . . . don't know why it worked in this particular instance, only that it did . . .

again, good luck . . . :)

[RevolutionStartsNow]

30. You will make a difference...

You have my deepest admiration for even trying. So many kids are given up on way too soon.

[GeorgeGist]

31. You overlooked something...

your post concludes that adults are the ones responsible for tearing these kids apart; not these kids. I conclusion I agree with BTW.

IOW I think your response to the orginal post should have been "that is s-o-o-o-o-o not true! . . .