"Unlikely Terrorists On No-Fly List" (I'm shocked!!)

[shance]

More abuse and "terror" being intentionally promoted and inflicted on Americans who disagree with the Bush Administrations' policies.......

(CBS) 60 Minutes, in collaboration with the National Security News Service, has obtained the secret list used to screen airline passengers for terrorists and discovered it includes names of people not likely to cause terror, including the president of Bolivia, people who are dead and names so common, they are shared by thousands of innocent fliers.

The former FBI agent, Jack Cloonan, knew the list that was hastily assembled after 9/11, would be bungled. "When we heard the name list or no-fly list … the eyes rolled back in my head, because we knew what was going to happen," he says. "They basically did a massive data dump and said, 'Okay, anybody that's got a nexus to terrorism, let's make sure they get on the list,'" he tells Kroft.

But the names of some of the most dangerous living terrorists or suspects are kept off the list.

The 11 British suspects recently charged with plotting to blow up airliners with liquid explosives were not on it, despite the fact they were under surveillance for more than a year.

The name of David Belfield who now goes by Dawud Sallahuddin, is not on the list, even though he assassinated someone in Washington, D.C., for former Iranian leader Ayatollah Khomeini. This is because the accuracy of the list meant to uphold security takes a back seat to overarching security needs: it could get into the wrong hands. "The government doesn't want that information outside the government," says Cathy Berrick, director of Homeland Security investigations for the General Accounting Office.

(snip)

Even if the list is made more accurate, it won't help thousands of innocent travelers who share a common name on the list and who get detained, sometimes for hours, when they attempt to fly.

Gary Smith, John Williams and Robert Johnson are some of those names. Kroft talked to 12 people with the name Robert Johnson, all of whom are detained almost every time they fly. The detentions can include strip searches and long delays in their travels.

"Well, Robert Johnson will never get off the list," says Donna Bucella, who oversaw the creation of the list and has headed up the FBI’s Terrorist Screening Center since 2003. She regrets the trouble they experience, but chalks it up to the price of security in the post-9/11 world. "They're going to be inconvenienced every time … because they do have the name of a person who's a known or suspected terrorist," says Bucella.

Cloonan, when shown a copy of the list from March 2006, tells Kroft, "I did see Osama bin Laden, both with an "O" in the first name and "U" in the second…I was glad to see that. But some of the other names I see here…I just have to scratch my head and say, 'My God, what have we created here?'"

<< A witch hunt, illegal harassment and detainment of citizens who disagree with this Administration, that is what you've created>>

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/05/60minutes/mai...

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. Sounds like par for the course for an american govenment program.

[mnhtnbb]

2. Let's see. The most dangerous names are OFF the list because

we wouldn't want anybody to know who they are? Yet it makes us safer to screen every person with the same name as a maybe, wannabe terrorist?

You have to give them credit. The neocons are completely illogical.

[shance]

3. Until we call them on it, they'll keep up their intentional "logic"

Thanks for posting*

[Rex]

4. When you have narrowminded, racists running the country;

expect narrowminded, racist policies.

[shance]

11. LOL!! Well that sums it up doesnt it?

n/t

[Drifter]

5. How the hell thinks ...

UBL would hop on flight like that. Come on.
Besides, it sounds like all he would need to do is say his name is Bob, and he's all set to go.

I agree, the implementation of the list is the primary reason that it will never work.

Cheers
Drifter

[John Gauger]

7. Not if he says his name is Bob Johnson. nt.

[magellan]

6. Security trumps...security?

"This is because the accuracy of the list meant to uphold security takes a back seat to overarching security needs: it could get into the wrong hands."

Umm...right. That's a fekkin' brilliant security plan, isn't it, making the security list inaccurate for security reasons. Just the sort of circular logic we've come to the expect from the party of "state secrets".

Jeezus H Christ. :banghead:

edited to add, because I can't STAND it -- so they're okay with KNOWINGLY inconveniencing innocent passengers while also KNOWINGLY ensuring that major terrorists won't be stopped?!?!?!?! Then what is the point of the no-fly list in the first place?!?!?!?

:wtf: :wtf:

[John Gauger]

9. I know, if it is too dangerous to have a list with such

important names on it, then why even have the list? It is no longer of any use. We are not going to use it for what it is needed for, so why use it at all?

[magellan]

12. Exactly what I just added to my post!

Belated welcome to DU, John. Don't they just drive you mad with their abuses of power? Lordy, lordy....

[John Gauger]

19. Every day my sorrow deepens

I weep for my beloved country.

[Jacobin]

8. My 14 year old son is on it

every time we board a plane, they demand ID, and he shows them his library card. :-) They ask for picture ID and he tells them he's not old enough to drive and has no picture ID.

They have to call and get special permission to allow him on a plane.

this is the honest to god truth.

[shance]

10. That is so abusive and wrong Jacobin. I keep wondering about a class

action suit filed by those who have been wrongly placed on this list.

People could take ads out in their local papers to find others who have been placed on the list as well. Whatever the case people need to keep notes and files if this is happening to them.

This is another witch hunt by the Bush Administration, and a couple of their intentions are to control peoples' activities and intimidate people from flying.

I'm so sorry this has happened to your son and you as a parent. It's inexcusable.

[Jacobin]

13. At first, it upset him

Now he thinks its funny. He has a very Irish name and I'm thinking they glommed some IRA operative names into the system and now he kinda thinks its funny.

When we go to check in, he warns them ahead of time.

Just goes to show you how idiotic our 'security' systems are.

[shance]

14. He has every right to be upset. I admire you are being a good sport

about it, however I hope you don't find it funny.

The next step on their agenda, which is already beginning to happen, is to detain and apprehend so called "terrorists suspects" on their list.

Keep in mind the legislation that just passed last week.

This is why the "No Fly" list was created.

It is all incremental for the larger PNAC picture.

Not that your son isn't random, he could be. However it is a luxury that none of us can afford to blow off what these individuals are doing to our civil liberties. THere is the reality that its not random that he is on it. It is interesting it is your son - I'm going to assume you could be relatively active in political activism. At the least, you post here at DU.

In reality, they arent so obvious to put you and other known activists on the list, they will just put your son on the list. They don't want to appear too blatant.

Americans need to begin thinking more like these individuals who abuse their power think.

It is in our own best interest, and safety.

[mnhtnbb]

15. We have f*cking idiots running the country.

[shance]

16. They are not idiots. That is what they want you to THINK they are.

They are NOT idiots.

[Withywindle]

17. Robert Johnson's gotta go down to the crossroads to get his name off....

he's got a hellhound on his trail.

[DefenseLawyer]

18. I'm on it

I don't even have a particularly common name. In the first year or two it was a HUGE hassle. I would try to use the self service check-in and it would start flashing and tell me to see the desk immediately. They would generally get a really serious look and pick up the secret phone (without dialing) and start saying things like "Tango Bravo Niner Foxtrot One Four Niner" and there was much hand-wringing and eye darting and then they would send me on my way after about a 10 minute wait. Now it is a bit more streamlined, and seems to vary from airport to airport as to whether they use the secret phone on me, although I still can't do self serve check-in anywhere. The thing is, there is someone on the other end of the secret phone that knows I am not the droid they are looking for, and if he knows, surely they could know too without much difficulty.

[shance]

20. "Tango Bravo Niner Foxtrot One Four Niner"

:rofl:

I'm really glad I didn't take a drink of water while reading that.

I'm sorry this is happening to you.

It's all just so bogus isnt it?

From the stories Ive read, I beginning to think they are picking you guys because you are so funny.

Keep us posted*