MSNBC headline: Foley may not have commited crime?

[Liberal Dose]

FBI case against Foley explores legal 'gray area'
Making a federal case out of sexually charged e-mail could prove difficult

Updated: 11 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - Former Rep. Mark Foley’s online conversations with teenage male pages have all the trappings of a political scandal, but making a federal case out of the sexually charged exchanges could prove difficult, veteran investigators say.

Foley, a six-term Republican from Florida, resigned abruptly as his e-mails and instant message transcripts surfaced. The chats discussed sexual acts and possible meetings with pages, according to ABC News, which first reported them last week.

With the FBI investigating Foley’s behavior, his defense attorney, David Roth, said that the congressman never had sex or attempted sexual contact with a minor. Foley, who is being treated for alcohol abuse, was drinking when he had the explicit conversations, Roth said.

<snip>

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15126151/

Edit to add: Somebody's paying something, and it's not attention.

[GCP]

1. Foley might get off (again)

but as the GOP were so fond of saying during the Lewinsky fiasco, it wasn't the lie, it was the coverup.

[malaise]

9. Bingo

It's the coverup Repukes.

[NOLADEM]

2. Bullshit

Foley's own law forbids any sexual contact by electronic/email means with anyone under 18, regardless of the age decreed by the local jurisdiction, by discussing masturbation with a person under 18.

He also attempted to arrange a meeting with an underage child for the purposes of sexual contact, which is also a crime.

Easy case if the IM's are admissable.

[Liberal Dose]

4. I don't think there's a chance in hell that Foley won't be prosecuted.

What bothers me is that this is the top headline you see when you open msnbc.com:

'GRAY AREA'
Ex-Rep Foley may not have committed crime

:grr:

[soothsayer]

22. Not a 'child', lol! Now we sound like the freeps. He resigned, it's

a scandal for the GOP, be happy about that!

[NicoleM]

25. Foley's own law was passed this year.

I don't think it's retroactive. So anything prior to the passage of the law wouldn't matter. I haven't seen IMs that are purported to have taken place after the bill was signed into law. Which isn't to say there aren't any, but it's possible that MSNBC isn't wrong this time.

[Lithos]

3. He may have done so

One involves use of the Internet and sexual content towards a minor (which I think bypasses age of consent laws), another might be the Mann Act where he could have taken a minor across State Lines, and another might be Virginia's age of consent law which I think is 18. The first I think is proven by the evidence, the other two might be proven if more pages step forward.

L-

[Liberal Dose]

13. No doubt he committed a crime. I'm looking at how the media has

started spinning it. The headline says he may not have committed a crime, and you have to click the headline to read the story. I think they're counting on people just taking the headline at face value, inaccurate as it may be.

[Hubert Flottz]

5. Offering Booze to a Minor?

At the very least!

[knitter4democracy]

6. If that's the case (and I'm sure it's not), it won't stop the suits.

Civil suits will be popping up, I predict. I know I'd sue the hell out of him if he did that to my son.

[CJCRANE]

7. That also means

Foley MAY have committed a crime.

Depends which angle you look at it from.

E.g. does B*sh have a 39% approval rating or a 61% DISapproval rating.

[Justice]

8. I disagree; the IMs suggest he attempted

he talked with one page about when he would see him again. and he kept asking the page, we will have dinner, drinks, and then what, and then what -- and the page said, i am uncomfortable what are you asking me? The page knew exactly what foley was asking; foley wanted the page to say it first.

[Liberal Dose]

11. MSNBC hasn't been paying attention, or somebody is getting paid

Their headline is:

'GRAY AREA'
Ex-Rep Foley may not have committed crime

[RC]

10. Foley is a republican,

how could there be any wrong doing? They all seem to know what was going on, but did nothing. So it must be ok, Right?

[sendero]

12. One of these kids..

... is eventually going to come forward. The chances he never acted out on this are about 1%.

[HereSince1628]

19. And if this has been going on since 1994 you can bet that some

now 20-something adult will step up and seek justice. Just like the alterboys have done.

[RandiFan1290]

14. There are plenty of people in jail right now

for doing exactly what Foley did. They never touched the kids they were contacting and they were arrested and had all of their computers seized.
They were not allowed to escape to a "rehab"

[maine_raptor]

15. Latest Batch of IM's suggest he did meet with a page in San Diego

As I understand it you need both the solicitation and at least the appearance of attempting to meet.

ABC has April, 2003 IMs between Foley and a page talking about a meeting.


See: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2303100


Edit for damn Moose and Squirrel Backwoods dial up problems. :mad:

[Liberal Dose]

18. I know it, you know it, and millions of people all over the world know it.

But you have the AP, just 40 minutes ago issuing a story that concentrates on:

If Foley never had sex with a congressional page, then his case is in uncertain legal territory, said Ken Lanning, a retired FBI agent who served as one of the agency’s leading experts on child exploitation.

“There are going to be some issues here in the gray area,” Lanning said. “You may find this behavior repulsive, offensive or immoral. Whether it’s a violation of law will be based on a precise reading of the law.”

:banghead:

[maine_raptor]

23. Well notice the first word:

"If"

Besides he's right; one should always have a "precise reading of the law".

Trouble maybe, the "facts" (IMs and meeting) may make that reading go a little quickly.

[Liberal Dose]

27. I hope the page he met in San Diego is brave enough to come forward,

in spite of the possibility of death threats.

[maine_raptor]

33. One way or another

I have the feeling he'll speak (maybe sometime soon). Either as a witness or and author. Don't forget this took place in 2003, 3 years ago, and by now the young man is possibly of age (18).

As for death threats; once the story is out, it's too late and only confirms what the victim had said.

[HereSince1628]

16. That won't keep his seat in the House from turning Blue.

In a country gone made where school teachers lose their jobs because students see art in a public museum, the people aren't going to forgive Foley. People all over the nation are of a mind that Foley's behavior is reprehensible and inexcusable.

People all over the nation understand the nature of the cover-up is exactly the same "protect our own" variety of elitist hypocrisy manifested by American Catholic Bishops.

Based on the low public approval of Congress, people have been fed up for a while.
In a year already laden with anti-incumbency, the indefensible nature of the cover-up could well make up the minds of those whose loyalty has been shaken to throw the bums out.

[Bluebear]

17. Oh terrific, now everything's OK again!

:eyes:

[Wickerman]

20. "Foley, who is being treated for alcohol abuse, was drinking when..."

had the conversations. So, not a crime, I guess, but he was drunk on the House floor? He delayed votes to have on-line "chats". As stated elsewhere, its clear he broke the law by offering minors alcohol and he solicited sex to minors, possibly in violation of the Mann Act. Interesting that this article buries the fact he was drunk on the House floor. I'm sure that is nothing new among our "esteemed" reps, but it would seem worthy of noting when you have the evidence in hand.

[CJCRANE]

21. Quotes Foley's lawyer

who of course is going to say Foley hasn't committed a crime. That's his job.

[DoYouEverWonder]

24. It's not just the emails

This goes a lot further then just some suggestive emailing, especially if he did it on government computers, during government time. Especially if it involves Congressional Pages, since there's a whole set of rules just for them.

Then there is still a lot of other questions to investigate. Did this go further then just emails. How many pages did he take home or to dinner? Did other members of Congress know about it? Did other members of Congress cover up for him, allowing his to continue preying on children? How many other Congressmen are doing similar things?

[Liberal Dose]

26. CNN does a little better with "Hastert in hot water" but when you to to

read the full story, you get, "Hastert, GOP stand together amid Foley scandal"

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/04/hastert.foley/index.html

[maine_raptor]

28. BWWWHAHAHAHAHA

"Hastert, GOP stand together amid Foley scandal"

Maybe someone should look at Hastert's emails!!!!!!!!!!!!


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Liberal Dose]

31. That's what I'm thinking! Wonder what would be found on ol' Denny's hard

drive. Probably self pics of him wearing his mom's old dresses. Eww, I just made myself sick.

[maine_raptor]

34. Naw, I'm sure

it's sweaty, well oiled young men in various wrestling poises.


All very proper and understandable given his background.

Just don't look in his folder named "Grecko" unless you are 18 or older, please. :evilgrin:

[Liberal Dose]

36. OH NO! I couldn't help it!

I looked.

[warrior1]

29. spinning

as fast as they can.

[Liberal Dose]

32. 'zactly. The daily disclosures about Foley's salacious Internet exchanges

with former teenage congressional pages have GOP lawmakers and conservative activists fearing the foibles of other politicians may be exposed.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/04/politics/main2059821.shtml

[Liberal Dose]

30. CBS News has, "Hastert fights for his job" - whaddya know, when you go to

the full story, same headline. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/04/politics/main2059821.shtml

Looks like more attention is being paid this morning to whether or not Hastert will keep his job.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

35. Hard to believe (NOT) given his pattern of behavior that his computer

has not been seized and his home searched.