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On Foley, On Pedophilia, and On Criminal Responsibility: A rant

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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-03-06 08:32 PM
Original message
On Foley, On Pedophilia, and On Criminal Responsibility: A rant
I imagine I have more experience rooting around in the heads of both sex offenders and their victims than the average person on this board, and I feel the need to make a few comments.

First, what is a pedophile? Here are the criteria used to make the diagnosis according to the DSM-IV, which is the official “Bible” of the mental health disciplines:

A. Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger).
B. The person has acted on these urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty.
C. The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A.
Note: Do not include an individual in late adolescence involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with a 12- or 13-year-old.
Specify if:
Sexually Attracted to Males
Sexually Attracted to Females
Sexually Attracted to Both
Specify if:
Limited to Incest
Specify type:
Exclusive Type (attracted only to children)
Nonexclusive Type

Now, on the etiology: Of the 200 or 300 pedophiles I have evaluated as a psychologist, I can think of very few who were not themselves subjected to sexual abuse, almost always in their prepubescent years.
HOWEVER
The vast majority of the survivers of pre-pubescent sexual abuse I have evaluated and treated over the years DID NOT themselves become pedophiles. I have never found a good way of explaining why some people became pedophiles and others did not.
Let me say, by the way, that sexual abuse, like most types of psychological trauma, is very treatable in most cases. Good therapy can reduce or even eliminate the symptoms of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder and other disorders of extreme stress. If you or anyone you know has experienced traumatic events--anything from an automobile accident to a year’s sabbatical at Guantanamo—please seek help from a good therapist. I personally use and strongly recommend a treatment approach called EMDR.

Did Foley have sex with an underage person? Depends on the laws in the relevant jurisdiction. Some say age 16, some say 18. Let us assume that either at least one of the victims was under 16 or the relevant law specifies 18 as the age of consent.

In any case, Foley is not a pedophile. He is a sex offender. It is unlawful and very wrong to use a position of power to entice or compel underage adolescents into sexual activity.

Let us take for the moment an instance of an older man who is attracted to a post-pubescent but underage girl. She has the body of a woman but the emotional maturity of a child. The older man is not abnormal for feeling an attraction to a female whose body appears sexually mature. He is, however, a criminal if he acts upon these urges.

Likewise, a gay man is not abnormal for feeling attracted to a post-pubescent adolescent male. However, if he acts upon these urges, he is, just like the heterosexual described in the paragraph above, a criminal.

Foley is a criminal. He is not, on the basis of the available evidence, a pedophile. His sexual orientation, and the gender of his victims, are irrelevant to his crime. Likewise, his own history of victimization is irrelevant to his crime. It will be necessary for him to deal with his victimization as he works toward his recovery, but the victimization is not in any way exculpatory.








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eallen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-03-06 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yep. However inconvenient to modern society, 16 is biologically mature.
That in no way justifies what Foley did. But confusing that with pedophilia is just a mistake.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-03-06 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. ...

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) - Cite This Source
pe‧do‧phil‧i‧a  /ˌpidəˈfɪliə/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun Psychiatry. sexual desire in an adult for a child.



Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source ped·o·phil·i·a (pd-fl-, pd-) Pronunciation Key
n.
The act or fantasy on the part of an adult of engaging in sexual activity with a child or children.

pedo·phili·ac (-k) adj. & n.

(Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


WordNet - Cite This Source
pedophilia

n : sexual activity of an adult with a child


At this point the people who go on to talk about how Foley isn't a pedophile start going on about some nonsense about how 15 year olds aren't really children.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-03-06 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. You're using "pedophile" as a pejorative, while I'm talking about
its specialized meaning as a diagnostic term. The law acknowledges that sexual activity with a minor is wrong. However, psychiatry doesn't classify sex with a post-pubescent person as pedophilia.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-03-06 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Posted the wrong place. Sorry n/t
Edited on Tue Oct-03-06 09:37 PM by NNN0LHI
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Nikia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-03-06 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. What about heterosexual to adults and homosexual towards teens/children
I have heard about several cases where the man was married and identified as heterosexual but whose victims were underage boys. I suppose that in some cases it may be an expression of closeted homosexuality, but I think that in some cases they are really only attracted to males who are not adults. It may have to do with an association with sex as power and subordination.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-03-06 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I'm aware of such cases.
I don't want to draw any grand sweeping conclusions, but it seems that the "attraction" to the young males has something to do with replaying their own victimization. These are the ones typically identified as "fixated" rrather than "regressed" pedophiles.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-03-06 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. Mark Foley is an ephebophile.
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Hosnon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-03-06 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. God...I've seen your graphic five or six times now and it just completely
FREAKS THE CRAP OUT OF ME, haha.

:scared:
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-03-06 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Thanks!!!
:hi: I finished it just this evening.



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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-03-06 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
10. Most voters I know are not psychiatrists though
Edited on Tue Oct-03-06 10:19 PM by NNN0LHI

They are just average folks who don't know the difference between the DSM-IV, from the man in the moon.

Try explaining to them what you just explained above and they would be snoring before you finished your second sentence.

Everyone knows what a pedophile is though. Don't need to explain anything to them.

Don
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Stu DeBeouf Donating Member (144 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-03-06 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
11. The proper term is...:
Edited on Tue Oct-03-06 09:42 PM by Stu DeBeouf
Pedo-Foley: n.: The attraction to teenaged boys by self-righteous, self-hating homosexual congressmen.
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