This Foley Scandal Doesn't Make Sense

[MrCoffee]

Rodney Alexander (the R congressman the page worked for) knew about the emails 10 or 11 months ago? And the pukes still let Foley run in the primaries?

Foley's "Democratic" challenger, Tim Mahoney, was a Repuke a year ago.

The Florida Pukes are looking at state Rep. Joe Negron to run in place of Foley. Negron was running for FL attorney general, but dropped out of the race to make way for Bill McCollum, a former Puke congressman.

The group that outed Foley, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, sat on these emails/AIM transcripts for almost a year before contacting the FBI/House Committee on Standards of Official Conduct.

This doesn't make any sense. Why didn't CREW go straight to the cops to get a pedophile off the streets, or at least right to the House committee charged with oversight of reps? What's going on with the FL pukes, and with this Mahoney character? If the pukes knew (clearly they did, Alexander had the emails a year ago), why run Foley when they knew it would come out at the worst possible time?

ETA: I know i'm missing something. any extra info would be greatly appreciated. PLEASE TELL ME IF THERE ARE FACTUAL ERRORS IN THIS POST!!!

[hang a left]

1. Very good questions?

Nothing has happened on accident.

[MrCoffee]

2. whatever morons the pukes are, they're not political morons.

[sufrommich]

17. All kinds of things

happen on accident.We need to stop believing that republicans are such brilliant political strategist that they are literally the puppet masters of the world.They aren't.They are a political party falling apart at the seams and we have the polling numbers to prove it.Let's stop giving them credit where no credit is due.

[MrCoffee]

20. Absolutely. but still, they did know about the allegations for a year

and ran the guy anyway.

[sufrommich]

30. They probably felt

that their power in Washington was so complete that no one would dare defy them,specially a young page.They miscalculated, and now it's going to cost them.I think it's as simple as that.

[Spazito]

34. I haven't been able to find where it is stated that CREW knew for

a year before this broke, can you provide the link where this is stated?

This is what I did find from AP:

The e-mails were posted Friday on Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington's Web site after ABC News reported their existence. The group asked the House Committee on Standards of Official Conduct to investigate the exchange Foley had with the boy.

Naomi Seligman, a spokewoman for CREW, said the group also sent a letter to the FBI after the group received the e-mails. CREW did not post their copies of the e-mail until ABC News reported them, instead waiting for the investigation.

http://www.belleville.com/mld/belleville/news/politics/15640794.htm

There is no time frame given re CREW and when they received the e-mails, in reading this I read it as they received the e-mails fairly recently and reported them to the FBI immediately.

[MrCoffee]

42. That's where my facts are sketchy. Someone had them, because Alexander

stated that he'd seen them 10-11 months before:

"The page worked for Rep. Rodney Alexander, R-La., who said Friday that when he learned of the e-mail exchanges 10 to 11 months ago, he called the teen's parents. Alexander told the Ruston Daily Leader, "We also notified the House leadership that there might be a potential problem," a reference to the House's Republican leaders."


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15063977/

[bunny planet]

54. I wondered why Alexander would put it out there that he knew 10 or 11

months ago at all, unless, the parents being the wild card, and fear that they'd come forward with the time line.

[MrCoffee]

63. I read somewhere that Foley was targeted by a group known to out gay R's

The pukes HAD to know that this was going to break. They had to.

[seabeyond]

68. i cant find the link, but read he was given the first set that werent

a big deal. when foley brought in foley assured them that was it. they told him to STOP the emailing and he said ok. that is what i had late last night.

remembering cant trust shit with these people

how it all came out yesterday is a mystery i am curious about

also heard made it to hastert employee not hastert

[bunny planet]

75. except it was an open secret in Fla-la-la that Foley was gay and

kind of 'indiscreet' as to who he was hitting on. So somebody had to have known or suspected about the more incriminating emails. Frankly, that's how I think this Republican party operates anyway, they only run or appoint people that they have blackmail potential with, that's how they keep them in line. Works for them most of the time unfortunately.

[seabeyond]

79. gay, and us being liberal... irrelevent certainly, but i hear what you say

an interesting point.

[ShortnFiery]

83. Here's the link - See pg 3 where they had asked the FBI to investigate

before ABC published the story. CREW also asked before ABC's initial publication that The Congressional Leadership also investigate.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/09/29/national/w123452D40.DTL&type=politics

I'm not saying that KKKarl & Co. are not wiley and evil, but they are NOT - the Alpha and Omega of winning Campaigns. I call it KARMA that is beginning to bite them in the A**. No matter how smart they think they are they can NOT control all the variables, i.e., the civil war in Iraq plus the leaking of Foley's sexual predator past with underage male pages.

They are going down and we NEED to make it sooner rather than later. If they attempt to be anointed by the SC as The Unitary Executive, we will have an budding Police State to counter.

Again, we must go out in LARGE numbers to the polls this November 7th.

Let's KICK the Fascists out? Later we can Kick the enabler's out in their next Democratic Primaries.

First things first! :hi:

On Edit:

snip

The e-mails were posted Friday on the Web site of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington after ABC News reported their existence.


Naomi Seligman, a spokeswoman for CREW, said the group also sent a letter to the FBI after it received the e-mails. CREW did not post their copies of the e-mail until ABC News reported them, instead waiting for the investigation.


"The House of Representatives has an obligation to protect the teenagers who come to Congress to learn about the legislative process," the group wrote.


According to the CREW posting, the boy e-mailed a colleague in Alexander's office about Foley's e-mails, saying, "This freaked me out." On the request for a photo, the boy repeated the word "sick" 13 times.

/snip

[Spazito]

96. This report does NOT say CREW had the e-mails 10 - 11 months

prior to ABC reporting this as inferred by the OP. It does say CREW reported the e-mails to the FBI after receiving them and did not post them in order to give time for the investigation. That may well have been only a few days before ABC broke the news as opposed to CREW having held them for months.

[ShortnFiery]

127. This is the way the vast majority of people would read it ...

Someone or some group leaked them to CREW.

Gee, these Republican Representatives, mostly mean spirited, old and bloated white men are not "all that sharp." They had the parents of the 2005 boy silenced. They did not think that the boy (or someone associated with him) who was seduced in 2003 would have the information leaked to CREW.

This is cracking me up in a bizarre way. Now is the time to stand up and scream from the highest rafters ... the corruption and immorality that IS within the Republican Leadership of The House.

These men are arrogant thugs drunk on power.

It's well beyond time to TAKE THEM DOWN! ;)

[sendero]

85. Amen..

.... they are a bunch of liars and cheaters. Liars and cheaters always eventually meet their Waterloo, and they are meeting theirs.

[Old and In the Way]

3. Didn't know that about Mahoney.....we need to be very careful in not

electing stealth Republicans in our primaries. At this point, I'm happy to support him and put a "D" on our side. But I'll be quite pissed if we suddenly see party hopping right after this election.

[MrCoffee]

9. This Mahoney guy seems like three miles of bad road.

What the hell is the DCCC doing running a guy who was a puke a year ago? Was this seat that foregone?

[flyarm]

15. they are doing it lots in Fla...dems infiltrated like this all over the st

got to go to dem fundraiser but will write more later..gotta run

fly

[liberaliraqvet26]

62. noone had the balls to run against foley...

Mahoney has buckets of cash and put up his own money. This is probably a good thing. Otherwise the seat may have gone uncontested. Before this the party would not have spent a lot of money on this race.

[Hippo_Tron]

70. I think Jim Webb was a Republican a year ago

The question is when did Mahoney start having qualms with the GOP, because usually people that do don't change their party affiliation until they have a reason to. Running for office would be a good reason. Either that or Mahoney is a total opportunist. And I'm actually fine with a total opportunist as long as said opportunist remains a Democrat. Certainly beats a child molesting Republican.

[liberaliraqvet26]

84. Up until the Foley story broke no one thought this seat was winnable..

no big name Dem's would touch it and the party wouldn't have put up a lot of cash to go after the seat. There probably is some opportunism there but Mahoney has been ticked off about the war and the social conservatives and put up his own fortune to go after foley. The district is red (somewhat wealthy, at least in Palm Beach & Martin Counties) so the successful "businessman" aspect will play well.

But he will likely be the next Democratic congressman from FL-16.

[malaise]

4. Maybe they didn't think it would come out n/t

[MrCoffee]

7. They must have known...CREW is apparently notorious for outing gay R's

[malaise]

38. You're right

The timing is very odd.

[Moochy]

81. Its worth making the point

That though some mouthbreathing genetic throwback repuglicans believe that Foley's alleged actvities are in the same "category" as gay or straight sex between consenting adults, it's not.

The comments on the ABC news site are disgusting examples of the idiocy of the right.

They try to equate Bill Clinton's dalliances with Monica Lewinsky as the same as Foley's activites, and claim that liberals hold Bill as a hero, whereas Repubelickers will repudiate Foley and try to out macho each other with the plans for medieval torture for Foley.

I hate republicans.

[bunny planet]

97. that's just the kind of spin I'm worried will stick.

They are able to uncannily make a negative work as a positive for them. It's got to stop. If the media won't report it any other way than with right wing spin it is much more difficult to get the truth of the matter out there. All's I'm saying.

[mike_c]

5. all very good questions....

Makes you go "hmmmmm," doesn't it?

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

6. I'll Play Devil's Advocate...

How would they necessarily know it would come out?

Besides, they're repubs, and they don't usually consider consequences or possibilities. Where have ya been? They think more about the means. You know, the LIES, the COVER UP, the DECEPTION, the ATTACKS, the SCARE TACTICS, the BRIBES, the PAYOFFS, the BLACKMAILING.

The end results get thought about after the SHIT HITS THE FAN. That's the real truth.

THEY THOUGHT THEY COULD COVER THIS UP. They figured, at least until after the election, and perhaps longer if they retained power. Even then, if he resigned following re-election, perhaps there were plans for him to step aside, and have Jebbie appoint a replacement.

All I figure is that they did not expect this to bite them in the ASS, because they're repubs, and they can get away with ANYTHING THEY WANT.

[bunny planet]

16. maybe they are going to put this story in their anti-gay column.

'You see, you just can't trust these gays not to be pedophiles. Even the Dems think they are perverts so how come they want to allow them to get married.' I just smell a set-up here, its too easy, we are jumping all over it, and its, you guessed it, OCTOBER. The distinction that all decent people, of any persuasion, find kid-touching to be reprehensible will be lost in the sauce.

I do think Mahoney just might be a stealth Republican candidate.

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

28. Mahoney As A Stealth...

I suppose that's a more likely possibility, for that set-up scenario to be true. Blame for that would be Squarely placed with the Dems who allowed him into the party, and believed he was opposed to the repubs and their facist ways.

And it would just be another example of how cheating, deceptive, and dishonorable they truly are, DEEP DOWN EVIL TO THE CORE, to actually pull a stunt like that just to gain control of an office. It's like they don't even care about perception.

But more likely, I think they just didn't think it would come out prior to the election. Perhaps they're trying to cover so much up, that sometimes Crap manages to filter through.

[bunny planet]

37. yes, as corrupt as they are on so many levels

they may just have two many balls spinning in the air, not to drop one of them eventually.
Let's just hope they drop all of them.

[chill_wind]

8. CREW did that?

Aren't there federal reporting laws and legal consequences for EVERYONE involved here having this information and not acting on it?

[MrCoffee]

11. Apparently they sat on the emails/AIM transcripts for a year

[chill_wind]

31. Wow. A laybyrinth of reeking twists and turns , within twists and turns..

This gets more enveloping and more *bizarre* by the every hour. Did not know that M.C. (maybe everyone else did). I'm finding it hard to keep up with the rate of infection and hemorrhage on this one. Thanks.

[donco6]

10. Did they have to confirm the evidence? I dunno.

Good questions.

[MrCoffee]

18. Shouldn't the FBI/local cops be confirming the evidence??

If the guy's a pedophile, which by all accounts he is (and gay or straight, a pedophile is a pedophile), i don't want some "citizen watchdog" group screwing with evidence that can be used in a criminal trial.

[donco6]

22. Well, true, but remember Dan Rather and the letter.

Now, mind you, I still doubt the letter was fake, as a lot of people seem to have bought into, but I think a lot of people are shell shocked about the barrage they know they will face with they come out with information like this. I'm just wondering if they wanted to make sure they had their ducks in a row.

And it's just pure speculation, I have no idea as to the real "whys" in this delay.

[MrCoffee]

24. That wasn't a criminal investigation into pedophilia.

[bunny planet]

12. Its either more imperial hubris, thinking they won't get caught or

another Rovian set-up.

Something doesn't feel right about this. Maybe I'm just paranoid after all these years but this scandal, coming exactly at the time it does, feels almost too good to be true. They had to have known it had the potential to come out at just the wrong moment so what's the catch. Maybe there isn't one and this is just the long overdue chickens roosting.

Another thing I'm a bit worried about is that Mahoney is a reformed Republican. How many of those are there out there. I often wonder whether or not Republicans have a plan B just in case they lose the election, placing DINOs as a second string who'll vote with them even though we've got back the house or the Senate. Think of it as planting Liebermans or Zell Millers all over the place.

Ok, now I'm really acting paranoid. Am I?

[KharmaTrain]

13. We Will Find Out...

Americablog reported that they had heard of the email story months ago but couldn't verify the authenticity and thus never followed up on it. I suspect others didn't as well. And, from reading the first batch of emails...where there wasn't anything sexually explicit, and could have been interpreted (as some Repugnicans first tried to do yesterday) as just a man "mentoring" a younger person. If all CREW and the FBI saw were those emails and the parents wanted to drop the matter and it didn't appear there was any further contact by Foley, I could see how this would have faded from a lot of radars.

What has me curious is how this story re-ignited this week. Who tipped off ABC and gave them access to the IMs that forced Foley's hand. Were these newly discovered IMs or were they previously available to investigators or to House leadership? We have lots of questions here that need answers.

Now there's blood in the water...and it's all Repugnican blood. Schadenfraude, my friend...

[MrCoffee]

14. My understanding is that CREW "outed" Foley. Is that incorrect?

[KharmaTrain]

21. ABC Beat Crew To The Story

Here's from the ABC website...

Naomi Seligman, a spokeswoman for CREW, said the group also sent a letter to the FBI after it received the e-mails. CREW did not post their copies of the e-mail until ABC News reported them, instead waiting for the investigation.

"The House of Representatives has an obligation to protect the teenagers who come to Congress to learn about the legislative process," the group wrote.

According to the CREW posting, the boy e-mailed a colleague in Alexander's office about Foley's e-mails, saying, "This freaked me out." On the request for a photo, the boy repeated the word "sick" 13 times.

[MrCoffee]

25. So CREW didn't leak to ABC? Do you know who did?

[KharmaTrain]

41. Your Guess Is As Good As Mine

I asked that question earlier...more rhetorically...cause does it really matter?

It was interesting to see how the freepers were spinning this as some kind of Democratic plant. Two weeks ago, the RNC dumped several millions into "oppo research" or slime ads in districts all over the country. These are the masters of the "October Surprise". It'd sure be nice if some Democrat did drop the hammer on this cespool.

[bunny planet]

19. K and R

[sandnsea]

23. Clark, Webb, some House candidates

I can't recall who all, but we're running a few candidates who either were Republicans or supported Republicans. I don't see any reason to single out Mahoney over the rest of them.

[MrCoffee]

27. It's just interesting that in a race where the pukes KNEW that there was a

story on their guy, in a race where, until this happened, Foley was a lock to win, the DCCC runs a recent convert.

[sandnsea]

49. He ran unopposed in the primary

If Rahm hadn't gotten somebody on the Dem ticket, we'd have nobody to step into this win. I'd think people would be glad Rahm did that. But nooooo, in typical DU fashion, always kick a gift horse in the mouth.

:eyes:

Some days. This place. Geesh.

[MrCoffee]

51. I haven't had a sip of the "vote for the numbers" kool-aid yet.

[sandnsea]

56. How do you suppose you get majorities?

Rahm got this man to run, and run spending his own money. I think it's ridiculous to find conspiracies in this scandal. Unless, of course, Rahm knew one of the pages and arranged to have it leaked himself. And this R turned D is the ONLY person he could find to be ready to fill in the gap.

[KittyWampus]

60. You obiously haven't had a cup of 'Political Reality' either.

There is no way this story helps the GOP or can ever help them.

[MrCoffee]

80. UNLESS Mahoney's switch was in name only.

Tin foil hat time? I don't trust those bastards AT ALL when it comes to electioneering. Everything they do is tainted.

[ButterflyBlood]

100. What the hell would be the point of this?

Wouldn't it make more sense to leak this before the primary, then get Mahoney to run as a Republican in the primary and general to hold the seat, rather than go through this complex set up which simply hurts them a hell of a lot more than the previous one would?

People need to quit looking at everything through tinfoil-covered glasses.

[sufrommich]

76. Apparently not enough drama

in the republican pedophile scandal to please some,so let's toss some Democrats under the train too.It would be soooo boring if the Dem challenger were truly a guy who decided the republican party no longer spoke for him and honestly felt more kinship with the Dems at this point.How much more fun to imagine we have republicans plants in our party!Apparently,being a moderate Dem is now suspicious as opposed to a simple explanation like,oh lets say, it's a conservative enough area that only a moderate Dem would have a prayer of winning there.

[MrCoffee]

91. If you're right, this is a dream come true.

well, except for the whole preying on kids thing, of course.

[bunny planet]

88. not looking a gift horse in the mouth here.

If Mahoney is the real deal, nothing would make me happier. I said up front, in my case, my paranoia is getting the best of me where the pukes are concerned. And I didn't know that he was the only one who'd step in in that district. Thanks for the information.

[sandnsea]

94. The gift is a free seat

The gift is not this particular congressman - it's Conyers, Pelosi, Murtha, et al. If Rahm had the foresight to get somebody in that race in the event this scandal erupted - well then good on him. I could care less who it is. There are A LOT of Democrats that need watching and motivating to the left - AFTER we win at least one of the houses.

[bunny planet]

99. Absolutely, but its not our seat yet. I never get too comfortable with

these crooks. They can not be allowed to successfully spin this one and then put another candidate up in the Republican column who might just look reasonable enough to pull out a win (or a steal).

By the way, in my state of NJ, I can almost guarantee that the Senate race here will be the first race they try to steal in 38 days.

[sandnsea]

105. I'm sorry

I thought I was talking to Mr. Coffee again. I'm only on my second cup, brain not fully functional. (Although, these days a pot isn't always enough.) Anyway, some folks have been working overtime to diffuse this scandal since it broke, in one form or other. I never get too comfortable with any of it.

[bunny planet]

109. I will be jumping for joy if this scandal can bring down the leadership

of the Republican House of Representatives. I hope Delay was in office at the time so that he can be implicated too.
These people have single handedly done so much to besmirch and destroy my beloved country, no amount of schadenfreude and just desserts is enough for them.

[ProSense]

26. The problem is assuming that the

Repubs knew the information would get out, that it didn't need to be authenticated, that the Repubs wouldn't have had time to diffuse the story and replace Foley with a solid Repub!

As far as Mahoney, so what if he's a former Republican currently running as a Democrat. Webb in VA worked for Reagan.

With all the issues that required investigative journalism over the past five years, it's interesting that overnight they put out a lame article pointing to SEC complaints and fines against a venture capitalist business. Woo hoo!

Why not do an investigative piece about why the Republican leadership covered up the Foley incident!

Pelosi has the Repubs backtracking and lying on record! Excellent move!

Dems will win this seat!

[MrCoffee]

32. good points. still, you have to be deeply cynical NOT to think that news

of pedophilia is going to break, and at the worst possible time. Six weeks before an election is pretty good timing, don't you think?

I'd love to know why the pukes covered this up. Why the hell didn't Rodney Alexander call the cops right away? Who in the House leadership knew about this and didn't investigate Foley right off the bat? Why didn't House leadership run a different candidate, if they weren't going to turn Foley over?

[ProSense]

35. That would be because they are

Repigs. This is not at all surprising! I'm fairly sure there are at least a couple more of them involved in this, and I don't expect that they believe they will be exposed or will resign out of fear of exposure.

Homeland official charged in sex sting held

[bunny planet]

36. Randi Rhodes was talking about Foley yesterday or the day before.

She's familiar with him because he was in the district in Florida that she worked in for years. She said everyone knew he was gay, not sure if she implied that he had a penchant for underage non-consenting adolescents. She did say that a friend of hers ran against him awhile back, forget the name, and that the day of the election, her name mysteriously did not even appear on the ballot on 20% of them. Randi had Foley on her show periodically before then, after those shenanigi, never. She also said her friend running against him refused to fight dirty and mention rumors that had circulated about him for years, it seemed as if that would have included his known hitting on youngsters.

[MrCoffee]

47. Apparently his orientation was the worst kept secret in FL politics.

[DireStrike]

29. Why did Foley resign? That's not repug style.

Shouldn't he vigorously deny any wrongdoing no matter what evidence there was?

[MrCoffee]

33. He folded like a cheap suit, that's for sure. Still, seems like pretty

damning evidence against him that he's guilty as hell. Would you want to fight those emails?

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

44. The party made him take the fall. Boehnert, Hastert etc too tied in.

The bigwigs think they're distancing themselves but the fact that they knew this guy had a problem with pages will be a millstone around their necks.

[bunny planet]

39. So when exactly did Mahoney switch parties?

Coincidinky or was it just around the same time Alexander heard about Foley and his raunchy emails.

Gawd, I wish I could turn off the paranoid button on this one.

[MrCoffee]

45. I've seen that he switched either a year or two years ago.

TCPalm.com described him as a "Reagan Republican" before he switched.

[bunny planet]

48. Here's the link to the St. Petersburg Times article on Foley

Seems the most damning thing about the story is the hypocrisy, and the fact that they guy deserves to be prosecuted under the same law he is credited with enacting.

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/09/30/Worldandnation/Lawmaker_quits_amid_s.shtml

[Jack Rabbit]

40. Rules are for suckers

The Republicans are not democrats; they don't believe in equality. There is a set of rules for the rich and powerful and their designated toads in Congress (them), and another for the rest of us (including Democrats in Congress).

Apart from his visceral hatred of Democrats, that thing that most annoyed me about Newt Gingrich when he first came to my attention was just that kind of hypocrisy. He would make a charge against a House Democrat and then always have an excuse why the same rule didn't apply to Republicans or to him personally.

If any Democratic Congressman had been caught writing salacious letters to a sixteen-year-old page, he would have been tarred and feathered and loudly ridden out of Washington on a rail; then the Rove noise machine would take over and brand all Democrats coddlers of pedophiles. It would make no difference if the Democratic leaders had brought the matter to the attention of the Speaker as soon as they determined that the facts warranted an investigation.

It is Hastert's inaction on the matter that makes this a political problem for Republicans. Anybody can be a pervert; it would not be fair or wise to throw stones at all Republicans just because one of theirs made improper advances to a teenage boy. However, it is right and even essential to question the House Republican leadership if they knew of this problem for as long as it appears and just let it slide.

[buddhamama]

43. it makes perfect sense

if you're a Repub and laws don't apply to you. They make deals and cover up their crimes. My opinion on the matter is this: Foley was betrayed. I think he was somehow convinced he would be protected, when in actuality the Repubs withheld the info till it was politically advantageous to do expose Foley; to ensure a McCollum win.

[MrCoffee]

46. I agree that he was betrayed, but I worry that it was to ensure a Mahoney

victory.

[buddhamama]

50. d'oh

I meant Mahoney not McCollum. sorry.

[MrCoffee]

52. i forgive you

:hug:

[ProSense]

59. Why?

It was a safe seat! They could have kept quite until after the election and won the seat. That would have put them in a better position to select another Repub to replace him in the event someone else exposed him. Also, why would they betray him knowing it would implicate their leadership and the party? The idea that the Repubs did this now doesn't add up!

[MrCoffee]

78. Because someone OUTSIDE the RNC had the info.

[Imagevision]

53. Why didn't CREW go straight to the cops? - need to watch one's back

[Spazito]

74. CREW did report the e-mails immediately...

The e-mails were posted Friday on Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington's Web site after ABC News reported their existence. The group asked the House Committee on Standards of Official Conduct to investigate the exchange Foley had with the boy.

Naomi Seligman, a spokewoman for CREW, said the group also sent a letter to the FBI after the group received the e-mails. CREW did not post their copies of the e-mail until ABC News reported them, instead waiting for the investigation.

http://www.belleville.com/mld/belleville/news/politics/15640794.htm

There are no reports I have found that state CREW had the e-mail info for a long time.

[MrCoffee]

87. Please see Post # 42...someone had the emails because Alexander

stated that he knew about them. It may not have been CREW. I don't know who leaked to ABC.

[Spazito]

93. I did read your post #42 but it seems others have not yet seen

your acknowledgment that there is, as yet, no evidence that CREW knew about this 10 - 11 months ago so I felt it was only fair to correct this, when needed, using news sources.

Edited to add correct punctuation.

[bear425]

55. I'm curious where you heard about Rep. Joe Negron to

replace Foley. Thanks.

[MrCoffee]

58. Associated Press. Link and quote included.

"Florida Republican Party lawyers were reviewing the process to pick a replacement. Party Chairwoman Carole Jean Jordan said she hopes a replacement will be chosen by Monday. Among the possibilities was state Rep. Joe Negron, who was a candidate for attorney general before dropping out of the race to avoid a primary with former Rep. Bill McCollum."

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/politics/content/nation/epaper/2006/09/30/s1a_mahoney_0930.html

[bear425]

82. Thank you. n/t

[liberaliraqvet26]

57. I've met Mahoney and he is a lot like Jim Webb...

he switched parties because he woke up. This is a good thing.

Noone had the balls to run for that seat because Foley was in fact popular and always won very easily. We should be thankful that Mahoney is in that race. it would have gone uncontested if he didn't self fund his campaign.

[MrCoffee]

61. Thank you! I'm nowhere near FL, and don't know the local scene

All i've read about him scares the hell out of me.

[liberaliraqvet26]

65. he is not the most liberal dem but i think he has potential...

and will vote for party leadership (that is currently the most important thing). In reality, this district could not be carried by a very liberal candidate.

[alcibiades_mystery]

66. That's exactly right

He's not going to caucus with the R's if elected, so it doesn't really matter much how he votes. He is in a red district and probably should end up voting red some of the time. The important point is who gets the committee majorities. Period.

[liberaliraqvet26]

73. he will have some conservative tendencies....

economically mostly. He is a longtime businessman and large parts of his district are wealthy areas. But he is opposed to the Iraq debacle, socially liberal and will go for "D" leadership. I'll take him.

[alcibiades_mystery]

86. Me too

And over Foley? Ayup.

[bunny planet]

64. amazing this comes out only days after the House vote bumps the torture

bill up to the Senate. If its truly a gift horse to our side, why couldn't it have come out in time to help keep that heinous Constitution crushing POS bill from ever seeing the light of day.

:mad:

As it stands now, it is taking all that other news off the front page, another reason to be suspicious.

[ProSense]

67. It really hasn't!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2266068&mesg_id=2266068

[bunny planet]

71. Good, yes I had seen that. Woodward's book is the unexpected.

He sucker punched them into thinking the new book would be another flattering one like the first two were.
Still, I will really know these stories have staying power if they are no longer allocated to the Friday night news dump and weekend nowheresville status. Woodwards interview on 60 minutes Sunday night should keep it on the front page on Monday. Fingers crossed here. Woody's got a hell of a lot of brown nosing damage to make up for, better late than never.

[NashVegas]

89. I Am Starting to Believe You Are Right On Target

I've read the emails - they are too ambiguous to prosecute for anything.

I've read the chat - there is no actual soliciting of a minor, and it *may* be moot, anyway, with Florida's age-of-consent laws (they keep changing).

Between the torture bill and Woodward's revelations, more and more this looks like a smokescreen.

[bunny planet]

69. I know I need to resist the impulse here but Rovian strategy always does

one of two things, either takes a strength someone who is a Democrat has and transforms it into a weakness (ex. Kerry's war record) or, takes a known weakness within any Republican and projects that same weakness on to the opposition. Not sure how that second one might come into play here, but can't help thinking about it.

[MrCoffee]

77. I don't trust Pukes at all when it comes to electioneering.

Not one bit. I am totally open to the idea that they'd plant Mahoney in the 16th as a Democrat because they knew the Foley story would break. Tin foil hat time? Color me outraged.

[ButterflyBlood]

107. Then why not break the story before the primary and run Mahoney as an R?

A lot more convenient, and a lot less bad press.

[Jacobin]

72. 90 percent of them have dirt. They protect each other

SAme with the priest sex scandal

[ShortnFiery]

92. Every ONE has a skeleton or two in their closet.

Now that Dear Leader's free to wiretap at will, everyone can be black mailed and/or bribed to do the Neo-Conservative's bidding. :(

[Skinner]

90. Help me out here.

Are you suggesting that the Republicans engineered this? That seems like an odd conclusion, considering that the Republicans are now being accused of covering up for a guy who was hitting on a 16-year-old congressional page. Not exactly a great situation to be in.

I would suggest a more mundane explanation: The Republican leadership stuck with Foley because they thought they could keep this thing a secret. The Republicans never "knew it would come out at the worst possible time." (BTW: If you are genuinely asking about the factual error in your post, there it is.)

:shrug:

[ShortnFiery]

95. Agreed.

Further, we should recognize IMO "A few USA Patriots" who had access to the NIE and released The True conclusion that invading and occupying Iraq has made Americans less safe. :patriot:

Drip drip drip - There are good people out their who are trying to help us retake our Democratic Republic (with checks and balances).

People ... Good People are finally waking up. Unfortunately, unlike Watergate, this time we must also counter The Corporate M$M. However, they too will jump "The Executive Branch's" ship as soon as The Will of The People demands a change. Again, it was not The Democrats but The People getting out in The Streets to FORCE our leaders to bring our troops home from Vietnam. :hi:

[bunny planet]

102. yes, I was there when the people turned it around about Vietnam.

It was a wonderful, heady, experience to see people power in action. Three very important things are different now however, they have a strangle hold control on the Congress, there is no draft (yet), and they control the media. Very different circumstances.

However, hope springs eternal. And yes, good people are waking up. I think they've pissed off the military and the CIA too. Not too smart and I hope and pray it is finally coming back to bite them in the ass, big time.

[MrCoffee]

98. Here's my contention with that conclusion, Sir.

The Repubs knew that someone OUTSIDE the RNC/party had the evidence against Foley. Rodney Alexander (the representative the page worked for) is quoted as saying that he saw the emails 10-11 months ago.

"Alexander said the boy notified a staffer in his office about the e-mails. The congressman said he learned of it from a reporter 10 or 11 months ago and promptly called the boy's parents.

"My concern then was the young man's interests and the parents' interests," Alexander said Friday. "We weren't trying to protect anybody except the parents. ... They told me they were comfortable with it and didn't want to pursue anything, didn't want to talk about it anymore."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15063977/

That's why I think (it's a hunch, and it's a tin-foily one, I admit) that they *at the very least* SHOULD HAVE KNOWN that the potential leak was out there. So why stick with Foley when you know that the other side has such damning evidence? It was not an internal RNC issue, it was that some group the RNC couldn't control. That's why I think there's something strange about sticking with Foley.

Thank you very much for weighing in. I really appreciate it.

ETA that I do not think that anything is beneath the Republican Party when it comes to electioneering.

[ButterflyBlood]

101. So what are they gaining from this?

If they were concerned about Foley and wanted to keep the seat, why not force him out of the race before the primary? That would've been much less bad PR for them much further away from the election. Going through a complex scheme like this just to keep one House seat they could've easily kept by doing something differently doesn't make sense.

[MrCoffee]

103. If I'm wrong, then that would be fantastic. I'd love to be wrong.

I really would. It would mean that the RNC is not evil, just fantastically stupid. It would mean that Mahoney is for real. It would mean that i'm just paranoid.

I'm not being sarcastic, truly. I would embrace my error. I just don't trust the RNC with anything when it comes to elections. They're too good at playing dirty.

[ButterflyBlood]

104. Let's say the shoe was on the other foot

Let's imagine that you're a Dem official who knows that a Democratic congressman is a pedophile and is covering up the info. Let's also assume that you're a Machiavellian who only cares about winning elections instead of morals and thus has no reason to turn him in on the basis of that. Of course you are concerned about keeping the seat and don't want these allegations to ruin it.

So what course of action do you take?

1-Leak the stuff before the primary, get a new Democratic candidate to run and win the seat
2-Recruit a Democrat to run as a Republican, then leak the information after the primary close to the election forcing the congressman to step down, giving your party a giant scandal and tainting the whole party all so you can elect the stealth Democrat as a Republican.

It's quite easy to see that #1 is the better course of action.

It's not like these idiots thought they could keep secrets before and failed. Seem Plame and Iraq.

[MrCoffee]

110. I don't think the R's leaked it.

My hunch is that they stuck with Foley on the off-chance that they could cover it up (See Alexander's "cover-up" with the parents), and that Mahoney (the self-described "Reagan Republican" and "fundamental Christian") is either a true convert or not.

Link to the Mahoney quotes.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/politics/content/nation/epaper/2006/09/30/s1a_mahoney_0930.html

[bunny planet]

111. somebody on this thread, who lives in Florida, said that their are tons of

candidates being seeded throughout the state that may or may not be Dems with a capital D. I think it was flyarm, but she had to go, said she'd check back later.

[ButterflyBlood]

113. I know little about how Mahoney stands on the issues

But there are plenty of former Republicans pissed as hell at what the Repukes have been doing for the last 6 years, and rightfully so. Look at Jim Webb. If Mahoney simply can't stand being in the party that's done this mess for the last 6 years anymore, I say good for him.

Note that Foley is hardly the only GOP rep to fall to a scandal, and there were no stealth candidates in the other cases. Nothing like this happened for Duke Cunningham, Bob Ney or Tom DeLay

[Ediacara]

112. I would like to point out that Rep. Alexander is a Republican

So it appears that just about everyone who knew about Foley was in the GOP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_Alexander

ON EDIT: Alexander was first elected as a Democrat, but switched parties at the (literal) very last minute in 2004. During this whole page affair, which I can only assume happened in late 2005 since Foley asks about Katrina recovery, Alexander was a Republican.

[TahitiNut]

116. A Friday afternoon news dump during a busy news week ...

... is hardly "the worst possible time." The GOP 'leadership' in the House has known about this for YEARS. One of the AIM sessions recorded by the (former) page is from 2003! Foley's (mild?) perversion has been covered up for at least MONTHS if not years.

I say "mild" because, in the universe of perversions, sexually explicit messaging or even telephone chats with boys in their mid-to-late teens are not at the "deep end" of that pool. What I find more disturbing is the liklihood that Foley has taken his perversion far further than email or IM's ... and that the GOP cover-up has contributed to his molestation of a minor. Foley, on the taxpayers' 'dime' and 'time,' has been able to use a positioon of public trust to both travel and gain personal access to teens he may have been targeting.

GOP = Ghouls, Oligarchs, and Perverts.


It seems to me that the GOP is populated with maladjusted, people who associate sex with being 'dirty' or 'forbidden' ... and that's hard-wired into the eroticism for them. In other words, if it's not 'forbidden' then they can't get it up. Thus, they actually accentuate the 'forbidden' nature of what turns them on ... going so far as supporting the enactment of laws to add to the turn-ons they are most obsessed with. It's a whole political party of "spank me - I've been a bad girl/boy!" At the same time, these people resent those who freely engage in the same activities, but without GUILT. Guilt, it seems, is the flame that attracts a GOP moth.

[bunny planet]

106. there really is no obvious upside to this coming out for them

except as a last ditch effort to try and bump some more damaging stories off the front page. Nothing gets the sleepy publics attention like a sex scandal. That's what I mean about their ability to uncannily make lemonade out of lemons politically. But it may not work this time, because too many people are pissed off this time, and not about to forgive or sweep under the rug, even one more scandal.

[ButterflyBlood]

108. This hurts them more than anything else thrown off the news

Why? Becuase the public can understand it easily and gobble it up.

Unfortunately it appears the average Joe can't, or simply isn't interested in the complexities involved in false Iraq info or secret torture prisons or lies about Iraq. The Repukes are slowly hurting and hurting more because of this, but it didn't happen overnight and that's why.

Sex scandal? The public can and does easily digest that.

[sufrommich]

115. "The average Joe(and Jane)"

are as capable of digesting complexities as any number of posters on DU.Hence the poll numbers.I seriously wish DUers would quit turning up their noses at average joes,merkins,sheeple or whatever other elitist crap we call any one who isn't obsessive about politics.People get the gist of what's going on and that matters.

[ProSense]

118. It's not about the ability to understand, it's about

wanting to engage in the discussion or paying attention. Hand out the following information and see how many Americans would take the time to read it with urgency:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2265166&mesg_id=2265166

There are some very smart "average Americans" out there who intentionally tune this stuff out!

[ProSense]

117. Deleted. n/t

[sufrommich]

119. Or some read the very same things

and come to different conclusions.It happens.

[ProSense]

120. Yes, it does! The distinction

of course is fact or opinion, and whether or not that opinion was shaped by full knowledge of the facts. If one comes to the conclusion that Iraq is going well based on everything that has been reported, even when the Generals are citing the failures, it's okay to challenge that opinion as flawed. There is engagement and attention, but there is also denial.

[sufrommich]

122. I agree,it's perfectly

O.K. to challenge the opinion that the war is going well and that's what we should be doing.The problem I have is with posters dismissing people as "sheeple" if they disagree with them at all,about anything. I see that all the time here.It's frustrating to be in the minority opinion,but,it's immature to attribute it all to ignorance.It doesn't work that way.

[MrCoffee]

BOY DO I FEEL STUPID...SKINNER, PLEASE DELETE THIS THREAD

I missed a very important fact that undercuts my whole paranoid delusion. I feel like an idiot.

[bunny planet]

121. I just came back to read this.

What'd ya miss.

[MrCoffee]

123. My argument completely falls apart because...

Alexander got the emails from the page himself, not an outside source. Therefore, the RNC DIDN'T necessarily know the story would break. Therefore, there wasn't necessarily a plan to either run Mahoney as a plant, or to reward Negron for stepping aside in the FL Attorney General race.

I feel like such a dumbass right now.

[bunny planet]

124. don't, we are all suffering from severe outrage disorder and an overactive

paranoia gland at this point. Don't blame yourself, apparently enough people wanted to jump into the discussion right along with you, myself included.
:-)

and just because the original emails went to Alexander, doesn't immediately rule out that the Republicans knew something was up with Foley for years, just thought they could put the kabosh on any story that surfaced. Its the too many scandals not enough time problem they seem to be having now.

[MrCoffee]

125. TY. n/t

[originalpckelly]

114. You are missing something: The parents probably agreed to keep quiet...

Can anyone say HUSH MONEY? I have a feeling there is so much more to this scandal that it will kill the Republicans chances of maintaining control in the House.

[Scout1071]

126. Here is why they kept Foley:

He's easily blackmailed. Come on DU'ers - wake up! They recruit these slimeballs on purpose. All hat and no cattle. These guys are slimy, yet "church goin'" and do nothing but talk about false patriotism and false religion. They've got skeletons piled eyeball high in their closets - making them easy to manipulate - and Karl Rove has a desk drawer full of those closet keys. That's how you get these insane votes to give away Democrati power and run us into bankruptcy.