Impeachment is not about you, me, or the Democratic candidates!!!

[meganmonkey]

Okay, here I go on a rant. I don't do this much, so please bear with me. I am just so frustrated about the impeachment talk here that I can't stand it.

We are supposedly a nation based on laws. It is quite apparent, at least to people here at DU, that Bush, Cheney, and various others have broken the laws of this nation. At the very least, there is enough evidence to warrant a trial. We all saw the MSNBC poll where 86% of respondents said he should be impeached. Not scientific, but obviously it isn't just DU that sees this.

Impeachment is the process by which charges can be brought against Bush, Cheney, and any cabinet members who are complicit in these crimes, and by which these people can be tried.

Now, I am not going to get into whether or not I think impeachment will happen. That is not the point of my rant. What frustrates me is that there are people here who think impeachment shouldn't happen.

It simply boggles my mind. I feel totally disconnected from these conversations of how impeachment will effect the 2006 or 2008 Democratic candidates, or how this isn’t the most opportune time, or how this will make the Dem party look like whiners, or all these other various reasons not to impeach.

We have CRIMINALS leading our nation, and much of the world is suffering for it! This trumps everything partisan. PEOPLE ARE DYING EVERY DAY!

This isn’t about us, this isn’t about our political parties, this is about something so much bigger.

First, we are Human. For the sake of Humanity these criminals need to be tried and punished.

Second, we are American. For the sake of this nation, for what this nation is supposed to be, what this nation was founded on, these criminals need to be tried and punished.

I, too, am a criminal - for protesting this administration. I knowingly broke the law, and I accepted my punishment for it.

If I can get arrested for refusing to leave the sidewalk in front of the White House, and for screaming “LIAR LIAR LIAR” at the top of my lungs, than the Bush cabal needs to get punished for breaking the laws. Because that is what happens in a civilized country.

Playing politics with our laws is not civilized. It is not Democratic, and it is not Republican. It is foolish and it is a huge step backward. We don’t discourage putting a murderer on trial just because a new murderer might move into his house after he goes to jail. We hold a trial, and if the murderer is found guilty he gets punished.

Suspects should be tried, and criminals should be punished.

If we can justify NOT impeaching and punishing these criminals, then I wonder what else we can justify? Stealing elections, because it’s for the good of the country, and well, they do it too…?

If we want to have a civilized democracy in this country, we need to start acting like it.

(sorry if this is totally disjointed – I wrote it quickly on my breaks today and it is sort of a mess!)

[firefox]

1. yeap

[liberalnurse]

2. That sure was a healthy rant.

Impeachment is indeed in order but......The republican House will not support an Impeachment of their President...John Dean said such yesterday during an interview. They lack the moral fortitude to do the job they were hired to do by the people.

[electropop]

45. They're breaking ranks already, and the most corrupt (the leaders) face

jail time in the near future. The Repugs can no longer afford to have the idiot boy as the face of their party. They will boot him out by August. They are gradually becoming demoralized (in addition to amoral) and will be forced to acknowledge and respond to the near-universal public rage, which is rapidly building, now that the spying is publicly known.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Bravo!

I agree 100%. Impeachment NEEDS to happen, even if we can't be assured it will be successful. If it isn't even attempted, we are conceding that the Bush Crime Family can commit the most brazen offenses against the Constitution that anyone can remember, and we will just sit back and take it, maybe grumble and whine a little. That, folks, leads us to a very slippery slope, at the bottom of which waits a police state. If nobody tries to stop these criminals they'll just keep doing what they've been doing, and worse. Is that what we want?

[Independent_Liberal]

12. You're absolutely right.

People around here who keep saying, "No, it will never happen" or "There's nothing we can do about it" need to realize that if they keep saying that, things are only going to get worse and they'll just be enablers. I wish people would quit assuming that every Republican supports the Bush agenda, because not all of them do. You never know something until you try. If you don't even try, you're sending the message that you're weak and that America isn't even worth fighting for. You can't do that. You've got to be willing to fight the good fight.

[troubleinwinter]

4. Hear, hear!!! You are so right.

[Surya Gayatri]

5. Great rant meganmonkey,

and you are sooo right. This goes far beyond party politics or at least it should. If we place Dem prospects in '06 or '08 before the truth and right action, we are no better than the Repubs who are playing fast and easy with the constitution right now. SG :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[leftchick]

6. uh megan?

:yourock: Go Sister!!!! :yourock:


:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:


:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)


:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

:hi:

:loveya:

peace,
lc

[meganmonkey]

8. Thanks lc

:hi:

It's kinda funny, I haven't been reading many posts this afternoon, but it looks like at least 2 other people have posted comparable threads. It is good to know I am not alone!

:hug:

[bluerum]

7. "Suspects should be tried, and criminals should be punished."

Hear hear.
:applause: :applause:

[William769]

9. Rant all you want.

I want Impeachment as much as you. Want to guess why it will never happen?

[meganmonkey]

10. If you are going to respond to the rant,

please read the whole thing, especially where I say:

Now, I am not going to get into whether or not I think impeachment will happen. That is not the point of my rant. What frustrates me is that there are people here who think impeachment shouldn't happen.

[Generator]

11. I know and it cuts both ways

Haven't been on DU much due to the holidays and also because I am sickened by the whole thing. And in the end, I kinda find politics sickening. BECAUSE they-the senators, the congresscritters are there to protect US. Not their party-(I don't give a fuck) themselves (oh I really don't give a fuck) their future political chances (you get the drift). They are supposed to be there to protect the CONSTITUTION, THE LAWS, the basic principals that being an American are about. No, not whether Janet Jackson's nipple is shown on TV. Not about video games or steriods in baseball. But real things like lies and propaganda that lead to wars that never end and spying on citizens and torturing people in my name.

ME. YOU. Our rights. Enshrined in the constitution. Not this bullshit that I've had to watch every day of my forty something life. Enough. Do your fucking job congress. Your job is not to prop up the President, your party, your future. Figure out the job you were given or get the fuck out of my bleeding eyes. Politics sickens me, truly. Conyers is one man that actually seems to understand the job description and I don't call that politics. I call it the real deal.

[LWolf]

13. Great rant.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[livvy]

14. Excellent rant!

I agree with you completely. There is never a "good time" for the impeachment of a standing president. It should only be done when the good of the country is at stake. In this case, they have done so much damage both here and abroad, that I can't see how any patriotic American could not support the removal of this nitwit and his malicious troop. The sooner the better, before they screw anything else up.

Well said, Meganmonkey!
You write a good rant!

[The Stranger]

15. I can't fucking believe there is even a question about it.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

16. We Think Alike I see

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5701870

I posted that a few hours ago feeling the same way :)

[meganmonkey]

18. Yeah, I saw yours after the fact

and there is at least 1 other that got posted this afternoon.

Strength in numbers :)

[Vidar]

17. Impeachement= Justice; the lack thereof= tyranny.

[Solly Mack]

19. You nailed it with this line

"If we can justify NOT impeaching and punishing these criminals, then I wonder what else we can justify?"

And every time someone utters the craven phrases "for the good of the country" and "move on", you know exactly what else they can and will justify (and have justified).

They are justifying torture,theft of government money,stealing another country's resources,election fraud, a coup, war profiteering, murder, disappearing people, illegal detentions,illegal invasions,criminal occupations,lying to start a war,abuse of authority,spying,manipulating and fabricating intelligence, violating the Constitution,erasing civil rights,secret prisons, rendition,killing the poor and elderly with harmful policies, failure to act during natural disasters and so much more.

Impeaching Bush is the right thing to do because it's the principled thing to do. I know people scream with fear as their minds snap closed at the thought of taking a principled stand because what's principled can get in the way of achieving power and control (and people like Bush,Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Powell, Scaife, Negroponte, etc. choose power over principle because principles get in the way of the control and power they seek)

If you achieve power through unprincipled means you will NOT change your stripes once you do have power - you will continue to be unprincipled. You will continue to be corrupted. You will continue to compromise choosing what's right by choosing what's easy.

If there is any chance at all, and it's a very small one at that, of saving any vestige of what America *might* could be - then Bush must be impeached, convicted and removed from office. The Bush Regime must stand as war criminals before a court of law.

America must, finally, take a stand against "politics as usual" (which is just another way of saying "corruption in government is business as usual and we accept that") and take a stand that will do more than simply maintain the illusion of democracy - for maintaining the illusion of democracy is nothing more than preserving the status quo of power corrupted. You contribute to your own enslavement when you "justify" that corruption.

If you've ever quoted the words, "Better to die on your feet than live on your knees", then understand those words clearly - for America is on her knees.

[meganmonkey]

25. And you nailed it with this one:

If you achieve power through unprincipled means you will NOT change your stripes once you do have power - you will continue to be unprincipled.

I have a feeling you may have to do some rants about that issue closer to the 2006 election and the 2008 primaries!!!

:hi:

[Solly Mack]

28. LOL! No doubt the opportunity will present itself

I never got the rationale that it's (not only) acceptable, (but encouraged), to lie and eviscerate principles before being elected because, somehow, once elected, you sprout wings and a halo and never ever again give in to the easy way out.

Talk about delusion. lol

And the people who believe that have only themselves to blame when they feel betrayed - you can't blame a politician for lying to you and doing something corrupt if you accept that it's OK for a politician to lie or compromise principles for the sake of getting elected.

It's like telling a thieve that it's OK to steal from others but just don't steal from me. It's not the stealing that bothers you...

[Clara T]

20. megan nails it

it is the obligation of any in House and Congress to fully investigate and proceed. It is their constitutional duty. If they do not uphold that duty then they too must bear consequences.

It is not a matter of strategy or political expediency it is their sworn duty.

[bostonbabs]

21. one correction.........

we can also impeach Supreme Court Justices (President Ford tried)
I loved this post and agree...WE MUST IMPEACH, if we don't we will prove that we do not have a Democracy.....I love my Country and I want it back from the slime that calls itself a "government" and the corrupt corporate control that calls itself a "media".
Any American that refuses to acknowledged the T-R-U-T-H that is sitting on our faces is UNAMERICAN.......

[MadisonProgressive]

22. You funny little monkey!

:yourock:

[stevedeshazer]

23. You've got it exactly right.

This is about crime. Period.

[hiley]

24. Excellent rant!

;-)

[TahitiNut]

26. You go, girl! You make us Michiganders proud!

As an independent, I'd be on him like white on rice even if he were a Democrat. He's a criminal! His cabal is a criminal cabal! The detestible evil of partisan politics is nowhere more evident than in denying that criminality because of partisan affiliation.

[marylanddem]

27. Right on! You've said it very very well. n/t

[fooj]

29. Well said!

This isn’t about us, this isn’t about our political parties, this is about something so much bigger.

First, we are Human. For the sake of Humanity these criminals need to be tried and punished.

Second, we are American. For the sake of this nation, for what this nation is supposed to be, what this nation was founded on, these criminals need to be tried and punished.

Peace.

[understandinglife]

30. Got my vote. Thank you. I'd hardly call this a "rant." It's a cogent ...

... manifesto, imho.

Happy New Year.


Peace.

[meganmonkey]

31. Thanks, UL

That means a lot, especially from you.

Happy New Year to you, too!

[understandinglife]

49. FYI: "Dear Gov. Dean -- GOPers either Impeach Bush or Lose in 2006"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5703874&mesg_id=5706912

The message being that the DNC can really put extreme pressure on Republicans and most of them will cut'n-run....


Peace.

[meganmonkey]

32. So where are all the folks I have seen say impeachment is a bad idea?

Why aren't they responding? :shrug:

I have to sign off for awhile but I'll check in later to see if any have shown up ;)

[Solly Mack]

33. kick

[iconoclastNYC]

34. You don't wait til 2006 to defend the Constitution

I know we don't have the votes, but you try because it's the right thing to do. You shame the Republican party for being rubber stampers to an out of control presidency.

The Democratic party must stand up for the constitution and show the American people that we are the party that protects and defends the constitution.

If Bush was a Democrat, not only would there be impeachement hearings, over 2/3rd of the Democratic caucus would have voted to remove him from office. Because Democrats don't put partisanship above the rule of law.

[tavalon]

35. I guess I've been skimming too many topics lately

I don't have access at work anymore and it cuts into my DU time. I've seen many topics about how impeachment just won't happen. I've not seen a single one on how it shouldn't happen. I'm not saying it didn't happen. See my first sentence, but, wow, if that did happen, that sucks. Those people would be missing the forest for the trees. I'm in this fight, not to help the Democrats but to save America from the fascists.

[meganmonkey]

36. Yeah, the inspiration for this thread

was a series of posts on impeachment threads by a several individuals who I will not call out per the DU rules, who seem to think that impeachment is not politically prudent for the Dems, or because if Bush gts booted then Cheney will be pres, or whatever. When responded to, they tend not to respond back. So unsurprisingly, they have not shown up in this thread either.

[tavalon]

42. I'm with you

Fuck politics. I didn't go to Washington for politics and I'm not going to predicate impeachment on fucking politics!!!!

[tyedyeto]

37. Nice rant, meganmonkey

I've seen some of those posts and always think...WTF? Do they want to continue to allow this BFEE take our civil liberties away? Do they want to be continually lied to?

That MSNBC poll may not be scientifically accurate but if it's even off by 10% that's still a hell of a lot of people who want impeachment. I say 'GO FOR IT!'

[Karmadillo]

38. Great post, though I fear it torpedoes your chances of becoming a

Leading Democrat.

[meganmonkey]

39. LOL - Don't worry

I'll probably be running as an independent. ;)

[Usrename]

41. If I could vote for you, I would.

I don't care what flavor you are on other issues, you have your priorities intact. This must come first.

If they are impeached, there is not any doubt that they will be convicted. That in itself would not change things much, but it would be a very good start in discrediting this Administration's policies and methods.

But it will only be the beginning of any path to justice. A very long and dangerous path.

Heads on pikes!!!

[Solly Mack]

47. You "purist" you

:)

[meganmonkey]

48. That's "progressive purist" to you

;)

[Solly Mack]

50. hehe

:D

[nicknameless]

40. A most excellent rant.

Thanks for posting it.

Recommended

[tlsmith1963]

43. Good Rant

I agree with you. Screw the "timing" of this. The sooner these criminals are removed from office, the better. The longer we wait, the more fascist they become. I don't want to lose my country to fascism, so
I definitely feel that time is of the essence here. We
can't afford to wait this out.

Tammy

[SammyWinstonJack]

44. Oh Yeah!

:applause: :yourock: :applause: nice rant!

[ClayZ]

46. Bravo! Bravo!

WHOOO HOOOO! Thank you. You are absolutely right!

:loveya: :toast: :bounce: :kick:

[flyarm]

51. horayyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!! i have been pissed as welll ..and i have been

doing my rants on those posts as well...

in fact this is one of mine...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5702254&mesg_id=5702598

what i want to know from these "don't impeach folks is...how can we have a president put his hand on the bible and take the oath of office to protect the constitution ..when a presidence is made to break the constitution with no accountability???????????

and when do we hold a president accountable to breaking our laws..

and what do we tell children about breaking our laws...well its ok for some but not for you child??
oh oh oh...do not look to the president..he is allowed to break our laws..but you child are not??????????

these are not sex lies * is caught in...and no matter..any lie must be held accountable...

but just like grand larceny ..and murder hold different punishments..the punishment for breaking our constitution and admitting it and saying he will do it again and again was spitting in all americans faces..and spitting on all the graves of those who fought for that constitution ..

i want this ADMINISTRATION HELD ACCOUNTABLE..NOW IS NOT SOON ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!

our future depends on that!!
and the future of our constitution for our children depends on that!

fly

[eppur_se_muova]

52. If any of this qualifies as a rant, we are in deep trouble.

"We are supposedly a nation based on laws. It is quite apparent, at least to people here at DU, that Bush, Cheney, and various others have broken the laws of this nation.

We have CRIMINALS leading our nation, and much of the world is suffering for it! This trumps everything partisan. PEOPLE ARE DYING EVERY DAY!

Suspects should be tried, and criminals should be punished."

These are all straightforward statements of fact, based on the Constitution of the country, its laws, and events reported and corroborated in the public media.

Laws have been broken. Anyone who wants to badly enough can look up those laws and confirm them. Anyone who wants to badly enough can read the accounts of when, where, and by whom those laws were broken. The NORMAL, EXPECTED next step is that charges will be brought by those responsible for enforcing those laws. In this case, those responsible are our Representatives in Congress, regardless of party. If they fail to press charges, knowing the violations that have occured, they are as good as complicit, regardless of party. If they actively seek to block such proceedings, or the investigations into possible ("alleged") violations of this country's laws, they are fully complicit, and should be held accountable as such, regardless of party. I want to see my representatives FACE THE PUBLIC and either CALL FOR IMPEACHMENT or EXPLAIN why they do not seek it. No representative should be permitted to postpone that accounting. We have not conceded to them that "right". We have conceded to them only the authority to represent us in the legislative body of our government, and if they fail to do so in keeping with our Constitution and our laws, that concession should be withdrawn at the earliest possible opportunity.

[meganmonkey]

53. Thank you!

I guess my version of a 'rant' is pretty mellow - usually when I post anything harsh I end up self-deleting it out of embarrassment of my lack of control. So I guess it is all relative.

But you clearly understand where I am coming from.

:thumbsup:

[eppur_se_muova]

54. "...I end up self-deleting it out of embarrassment of my lack of control."

Yeah, I hear O'Reilly has the same problem. :evilgrin:

[meganmonkey]

55. Eeewwww!!!!!

I don't even want to think too much about that one!!!!

:spank: