so, I'm now pro torture for defending Reid, who voted against the bill

[bigtree]

I almost never make a post like this, but, this is the absolute worst I've experienced here. I've advocated for years against the type of suppression that this bill demonstrates. I've railed here for months against these detentions and the justifications used to hold them there I've advocated against this bill.

It's completely out of hand, and wrong to start feeding on those of us who already DISAGREE with the bill, just because we DARE to defend OUR party. Folks who make these kind of attacks on loyal party members don't deserve anyone's support.

I want to make it clear to any who will read this that I will never be intimidated away from support of my party; not by the opposition, nor by those within our party who take a different course or adopt a different opinion than I do.

[Anakin Skywalker]

1. I Don't Think This Issue Should Divide Us.

It's exactly what the rightwing wants. With Dems divided, they will win the election again.

[Warren Stupidity]

2. Reid voted against the bill but failed to lead his caucus

to block the bill's passage. For that he is a failure and should resign.

[bigtree]

3. he lead, his 'caucus' didn't follow

[Warren Stupidity]

4. Well that is the point, isn't it?

As the leader of the supposed opposition party he is completely ineffective and has been for the last two years.

[bigtree]

5. that's crap, at least on this issue

the control that you want from him doesn't exist anymore, maybe shouldn't. That type of top down dominance did a great deal of damage in blocking grass roots efforts on other meaningful legislation and initiatives.

The votes have to come from the individual members. He was short. It has happened over the years to the best of leaders in that body. Just imagining that control and wishing it were so doesn't mean that option actually existed.

[theanarch]

10. disagree:

on matters of seminal importance, indeed, issues that (supposedly) define the differences between the major Parties, partisan discipline is of utmost importance. Reid had the discipline on a series of amendments/alternatives to the bill that passed--even Ben Nelson voted with his Party on some of them, along with one (Chafee) or two (Sununu) Republicans. There is absolutely no excuse for Democrats to NOT have filibustered, or engaged in whatever parlimentary guerilla warfare was necessary to, at the very least, kill the bill for this term. Instead, when their opposition mattered most, a dirty dozen Democrats defected to the dark side, effectively euthanizing the concept and practice of habeus corpus in this country. I can guarantee that those cowards who voted for the WH plan with their elections in mind have lost more votes from their base than they'll ever gain elsewhere from the electorate...and with it, the DNC can kiss its wet dream of recapturing the Senate...and the House...good-bye.

[ScreamingMeemie]

6. Hey, at least you're not a tramp like I am for suggesting somebody

calm down. :hi:

[saracat]

7. Thank you for this post. I agree absolutely!

[Cameron27]

8. You're not wrong

Thanks for the post.

[blm]

9. My friend, never change who you are - if people here haven't bothered to

get to know your heart and your head after all this time, then why bother with them?

No one who KNOWS your work and your efforts for all these years could possibly challenge your integrity.

Now - Let's go get those Bush bastards.