Are some Dem Senators to blame for all this? Should THEY be scapegoated?

[kerry-is-my-prez]

We need to direct our anger AND our time and energy at the people who are REALLY to blame.

The Dems who are wimps are only a very small part of the problem. It is much much bigger than that. It’s very nice and convienient to take all of our anger out on them. Are THEY really the reason that this is all happening? NO.

The reason this is happening is because the people of this country either don’t care or because they are fucked up.

We've gotta cut out the nonsense people....Our battle is going to be much, much tougher than most of us have even begun to realize. It is going to be very, very difficult to stop these people – and until we start being smarter – these people are just going to start getting more and more out of control. Quite simply we need to get more people to start agreeeing with us. A LOT more. Change only happens when the majority of people in a society start getting outraged and we are a long way away from that. We are in the minority and until we start being realistic about it - we will keeep on failing.

We need to start doing things that are REALLY going to be effective – we don’t have time to screw around with silliness and to throw temper tantrums and whine. Stop the emotional stuff. If something is not going to be effective SCREW IT. If we don’t have the numbers to win something don’t waste all our your time and energy whining about how people won’t vote for it. It is a numbers game. The fact is we are outnumbered in both houses of Congress and cannot win something by ourselves. Quit crying about it.

We need to be mean and lean and to hell with all of this noble crap: “They should vote for this and that – even if they’re going to lose just so they can say they did and be noble. So what if they don’t get re-elected and they’re seat goes to a Republican –at least they were right. They should sacrifice themselves.”

Frankly - I have no patience for that sort of attitude. Also – until I hear that the bozos who say that sort of thing sacrifice their OWN jobs or their OWN money I’m just going roll my eyes.

We have a very dangerous enemy and we cannot afford to throw away any chances.

The machine just rolls over EVERYONE and ANYONE who tries. People who are hell of a lot smarter, nobler, more well-spoken than the majority of us here. The list of people they have "bought down" is in the thousands. Right, Left, Center, Democratic – even moderate Republicans - it doesn't matter. They smear them all - call them crazy, make death threats against them, get them fired, imprison them, even kill them. Ex-Presidents (Carter, Clinton), award-winning film-makers (Michael Moore), respected journalists, top newspapers, Ex- Generals, even other allies (the Europeans). The Pope – when he dared criticize Bush. And the great majority of Merkin's believe it and go along with it.

All I ask is can we just start to be realistic and smart??!! We don’t have the time to be playing games.

We need money and votes behind us – that’s the only thing that matters. Let’s keep our eye on the ball people…..

[mmonk]

1. Anyone who votes for torture and suspension of habeus corpus

isn't a scapegoat.

[Warpy]

2. If ever there has been a case for a filibuster

this is it. Apparently our fine Democrats are keeping their powder dry until everyone is already dead.

Lincoln tried to do away with habeas corpus, too. He was fought through the courts every step of the way and finally and quietly abandoned the idea before it got to the USSC.

I fear we won't be as lucky this time.

In any case, every Rep and Senator who rolled over on this one need to be targeted for elimination in the next round of primaries.

They don't deserve their offices and they don't deserve to be called Democrats.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

3. Why don't you blame the Republicans instead?

To blame the Democrats is just insane. Yes - they are partly to blame but if we want to look at the REAL problem it is Bush and the Republicans.

[Warpy]

11. A filibuster would have stopped this thing dead until the new

Congress sits.

That's why I'm angry about it.

Blaming repugs is sort of like blaming black widows for carrying deadly venom. That is just what they are, always have been, always will be.

The Dems had a chance to stop this evil thing. They blew it again.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

4. A filibuster would only be a temporary fix.

n/t

[kerry-is-my-prez]

5. Yes - in the primaries for sure. NOT in the General though...

n/t

[LSK]

6. isnt it too early for this

They havnt voted yet. :shrug:

[kerry-is-my-prez]

8. I keep hearing people say they're leaving the Party, etc.

n/t

[bobbolink]

7. One person's "nonsense" is another person's line in the sand.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

9. I'm angry at them too- but why direct all your rage & energy at the Dems

I just don't get it.

[bobbolink]

10. BECAUSE IT'S MY PARTY.

They represent ME.

Get it now?

That's democracy.