Senate Hearings on Torture Bill (debating Rockefeller Amend) -- THREAD 4

[CornField]

Thread 1 Senate hearings on Militry hearings of detaines Official thread -- http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2242459&mesg_id=2242459

Senate hearings on S3950 (Specter-Leahy Amend) -- THREAD 2 -- http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2243468&mesg_id=2243468

Senate hearings on S3950 (Specter Amend -- FAILED) -- THREAD 3 -- http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2243963&mesg_id=2243963

[MrCoffee]

1. Domenici is a addleminded twit.

woo hooo! 1st post!

[katinmn]

2. Call Domenichi! Tell him the American people are against torture

[lonestarnot]

17. What's the number?

[katinmn]

22. Here's the entire list. Call em all!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2244362

[lonestarnot]

32. cool will thanks!

[shadowknows69]

3. Go fuck yourself Domenici

We should not be torturing.

[katinmn]

6. I called his office. Anyone else?

[CornField]

10. I phoned Grassley -- think I'm at my puke quota.

Seriously, I'll pick up the phone and call -- can't hurt.

[katinmn]

21. Thanks! [phone]. Here are all ph numbers.

Here are all of the senators' numbers (thanks, LSK, keep posting!). I'm calling them one by one.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2244362

[MrCoffee]

4. CornField is doing a FANTASTIC JOB TODAY!!!!!

Thanks for keeping the new threads coming!

[shadowknows69]

7. Ok no problem so end the fucking program

Torutring doesn't work.

[Catchawave]

12. YES, thanks Cornfield !!!

I'm not near a t.v. and these threads have been the next best thing :hi:

[CornField]

15. Thank you! Glad to keep the threads going

I find this whole debate fascinating... like watching a 8-car pile up. (You don't want to keep looking, but you just can't seem to turn your head away.)

[CornField]

5. Sen. Pat Roberts (R-Kansas) -- 12 minutes?!?

Is it too early to start drinking?

He questions the need for a quarterly report that will be an unnecessary burden on the good men and women of the CIA.

[shadowknows69]

8. I thought that was their job?

To report on our intelligence picture.

[shadowknows69]

9. I can't take it.

n/t

[Skidmore]

14. He's charged with giving Crashcart's position on the bill--

they're good buddies.

[shadowknows69]

11. Quarterly reports too much work for CIA

lies lies lies

[MrCoffee]

13. These pukes are lining up to surrender all of their Constitutional duties

to the chimp. Un-fucking-believeable

[CornField]

16. Sen. John Warner (R-Virginia) has the floor -- against the amendment

[CornField]

18. Reports are not effective -- they are taking over the committee's job

"This amendment is a substitute of the committee's responsibility" Now wants chairman's views on that.

[CornField]

19. Sen. Roberts - Chair of Intelligence Committee is responding

"We have been fully briefed in the past and present... if people have problems or questions all you have to do is ask and I can guarantee you as Chairman that those in charge of this program at the CIA will be there."

[CornField]

25. Warner is back, patting himself on the back for being chair of Armed Serv.

Armed Services Committee -- giving kudos to Gen. Hayden for being "quite responsive"

[Cameron27]

20. Now they're ditzing the dems for not asking

questions about the bill. Who's up next...I hope it's Levin.

[shadowknows69]

23. Quarterly reports are every 3 fucking months

too much work give me a fucking break. I'll write the damn thing for free in my spare time. Send me the raw data.

[Lasher]

24. Warner just asked Roberts his opinion...

Underhanded way of getting Whitewash Roberts even more time to fart out his views. Blah blah, trust me just ask and you'll get whatever information you want. Just don't require that the information be shared. Just trust me.

[CornField]

26. What is this a two-way conversation?

LOL! Maybe Roberts and Warner should get a room for this mutual masterbation display.

[MrCoffee]

30. It's a pretty common practice in the Senate to pad the FR with

interpretive remarks. Courts refer to them all the time.

[shadowknows69]

27. Rockefeller

n/t

[CornField]

28. Rockefeller has the floor again -- refuting the previous claims

"the CIA is not responsive to the committee -- because they have been directed not to be responsible to the committee --- we don't have oversight on the program we're talking about"

[shadowknows69]

29. "Anyone who suggests we have oversight on this program is wrong"

calling BS on rethug remarks.

[Inuca]

31. WHat is the Rockefeller amendement about?

SOrry, I do not have time to follow the all the details right now. Thanks!

[CornField]

33. Requiring reports from the CIA

So that the Intelligence Committees can provide oversight

Basically, it restores at least some semblance of power to Congress instead of handing it all over to the executive branch.

[Inuca]

38. Thanks! nt

[Lasher]

34. What?? Roberts says he can't remember...

when a member of the Intelligence Committee asked for infomation from the Executive, and he (Roberts) didn't go into overtime to try to get it for them!!

Can you remember any of this Roberts??

http://rawstory.com/robertsintel.htm

Jay's kicking his ass now for making this ridiculous assertion.

[Cameron27]

35. Yea Levin

NOW a diagloue between Levin & Rockerfeller!! He's pissed.

[shadowknows69]

36. Go Levin

calling more BS.

[MrCoffee]

37. Carl Levin asked for the "Bibey Memo" a dozen times over 2/12 years.

So no, all they have to do is ask is a lie.

[CornField]

39. Sen. Carl Levin (D-Michigan) is up -- co-sponsor of this amendment

Talking about Biden memo -- been asking, has still not been given.

May 13, 2004, Chairman Warner asked for all legal reviews and related documents concerning interrogation techniques -- has never been provided.

Many more examples being provided by Levin

[CornField]

41. Levin is LIVID -- "How Many Times Do We Have To Ask?"

[Lasher]

42. Wow, levin came in loaded up with a big long list!

Heh heh, he was loaded up and Roberts stepped in it big time!

[MrCoffee]

40. Levin: "A year of stonewalling, denial and coverup by USDOJ"

[CornField]

43. Roughly 12 minutes of debate left on Rockefeller

Rockefeller gave all but one minute to Levin.

Warner keeps his time for himself

Holding on to those as we move on to Kennedy's Amendment

[shadowknows69]

45. Kennedy

proposing an amendment

[MrCoffee]

47. On Rockefeller's amendment.

[MrCoffee]

44. Kennedy is putting an amendment on the floor.

[CornField]

46. AMENDMENT 5088 -- Kennedy Amendment -- now being discussed

[CornField]

50. He brought Army rules for interrogating prisoners

It outlines prohibited interrogations by the Dept. of Defense (He has a prop outlining them)

[LSK]

48. vote on Rockefeller bill postponed till later?

[CornField]

51. yes

[Lasher]

49. Lion of the Senate up right now

Talking about prohibited interrogations.

[LSK]

52. and hes getting revved up

[Cameron27]

53. Kennedy is righteously ANGRY

[LSK]

56. Wow!

[me b zola]

57. You bet he is!

Go get them, Teddy!

[WinkyDink]

59. YES! I was waiting for TEDDY!

War criminal status is what they are risking---and HANGING!

[lonestarnot]

54. Kick Ass My FAVORITE SENATOR! EDWARD KENNEDY!

[Dinger]

101. Just Got His Book For My Students: "My Senator And Me"

Think I'll read it to them during their afternoon milk break. Whaddaya think?

[Lasher]

55. Ted's getting on a roll.

This will be a memorable speech. This is why they call him the Lion. He's getting fired up!! This is quite moving.

[Armstead]

58. Give it to them Ted -- Describing actual torture

[chill_wind]

66. In excellent righteous form! nt

[MrCoffee]

60. Am I right that Kennedy's amendment makes certain torture WAR CRIMES?

[WinkyDink]

61. YES. He is WARNING THEM. Making them OWN their evil.

[shadowknows69]

I think that's the plan

n/t

[yodermon]

69. Yes, very smart move, i think

He's proposing an amendment that would label torture of AMERICAN's captured in the "war on terra" as Geneva violations & War Crimes.

[LSK]

62. lunch hour break?

[MrCoffee]

64. i thought i heard a quorum call...so probably.

[LSK]

68. hopefully Reid is very busy fighting for a filibuster

He needs to have lunch with Landrieu and the Nelsons

[CornField]

65. calling roll to see if there is a quorum

[Beelzebud]

63. Senator Ted Kennedy - A REAL American.

That made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.

[Lasher]

67. Kennedy's through speaking for now.

Shoot, I could have listened to that for a long time. Quarum call now, which is pretty much a recess of about 15 minutes. Smoke 'em of you've got 'em!

[LSK]

70. Kennedy is back

[Lasher]

71. They're back, Kennedy speaking again

Quarum call suspended.

[MrCoffee]

72. Text of Kennedy's Amendment

On page 83, between lines 8 and 9, insert the following:

(2) PROTECTION OF UNITED STATES PERSONS.--The Secretary of State shall notify other parties to the Geneva Conventions that--

(A) the United States has historically interpreted the law of war and the Geneva Conventions, including in particular common Article 3, to prohibit a wide variety of cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment of members of the United States Armed Forces and United States persons;

(B) during and following previous armed conflicts, the United States Government has prosecuted persons for engaging in cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment, including the use of waterboarding techniques, stress positions, including prolonged standing, the use of extreme temperatures, beatings, sleep deprivation, and other similar acts;

(C) this Act and the amendments made by this Act preserve the capacity of the United States to prosecute nationals of enemy powers for engaging in acts against members of the United States Armed Forces and United States persons that have been prosecuted by the United States as war crimes in the past; and

(D) should any United States person be subjected to the following acts, without limitation, under circumstances in which the Geneva Conventions are applicable, the United States would consider such acts to constitute punishable offenses under common Article 3 and would act accordingly: forcing the person to be naked, perform sexual acts, or pose in a sexual manner; applying beatings, electric shocks, burns, or other forms of physical pain to the person; waterboarding the person; using dogs on the person; inducing hypothermia or heat injury in the person; conducting a mock execution of the person; and depriving the person of necessary food, water, or medical care.

[CornField]

74. Thanks! Do you have the text of the Rockefeller Amendment too?

[MrCoffee]

77. Rockefeller's is huge...here's the link to the CR page with all amendments

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/C?r109:./temp/~r109HchwTZ

[Cameron27]

76. Who in friggin hell would vote AGAINST THAT!!

My head is going to explode today.

[MrCoffee]

87. Kennedy asked the same thing about 9 different times.

[democrank]

92. If I understand Kennedy`s amendment correctly

it was a brilliant move. Rethugs will either have to vote against protecting American nationals or vote for protecting them, thus being on record against Bush`s current torture tactics.

[MrCoffee]

96. It's fantastic...and will be voted down.

It won't be approved, because there's no way the pukes will support the torture bill if they have to order Condi to tell other countries that torture is a war crime.

[CornField]

73. I like it when they use props -- What's the grumbling in the background?

[Lasher]

79. Maybe it's stomachs growling. Have they had lunch?

Or maybe you heard me open this nice cold can of beer. Yum!

[bdamomma]

75. just a question what would happen if the Dems just got up and

left, would this kind of action be unspeakable.

[MrCoffee]

80. why should they take their marbles and go home?

they'd look like petulant children, and rightly so.

[bdamomma]

99. yes, that would be cowardly, but you got to admit the

Dems are giving the repigs grief about this rightly appropriate.

[CornField]

78. Why do they keep doing quorum calls?

Are they doing it to make sure the GOP senators stay in the hall or to extend their time (since it isn't charged when there isn't a quorum)?

[LSK]

84. its probably lunch time

[Lasher]

86. It's how they ask for a 'time out'

Parliamentary procedure and all that.

[LSK]

81. Hillary up

[MrCoffee]

82. GO HIL!

[CornField]

83. Sen. Hillary Clinton has the floor (she suspended the quorum call)

[MrCoffee]

85. "A strategy for winning elections ahead of a strategy for winning the war"

[CornField]

88. Some are implementing a strategy of winning elections and placing it

above a strategy of taking care of our nation (paraphrased)

"The president acted without authority" she went on to add that we should not give the president who has already abused his authority even more.

[LSK]

89. Hillary please vote no on cloture

[LSK]

90. She is quoting George Washington

[malaise]

91. Hope!! n/t

[Lasher]

97. We'll be seen as failing our own high standards.

We already look like the assholes of the world thanks to the worst president we've ever had.

[Lasher]

93. I can't believe I'm seeing this in the US Senate

A debate about what kind of torture to use, and how to provide cover for those involved in its administration. The only discourse on this should be, anybody who suggests we should torture people should get their asses kicked on the spot. I never thought I'd see the day.

[MrCoffee]

HRC: "Held up to the world as failing our own high standards"

[MrCoffee]

94. HRC: "Torture leads to radicalization"

[Cameron27]

95. Hil is very forceful

....we will be held up to the world as failing our high standards"

[CornField]

98. ~*~*~ NEW THREAD 5 OPEN ~*~*~

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2245155&mesg_id=2245155

[alfredo]

100. The Dems should bring into the chambers, all the tools they need

to perform water boarding. They should then demand that Senators in favor of torture submit themselves to water boarding right there on the Senate floor.

I just called Mitch McConnell's office and asked who would Jesus torture.