Please Stop With The "GOP will NEVER Overturn Roe Because..."

[phrenzy]

They WILL overturn it the first chance they get. They don't have some Machiavellian plan to keep this as law for some perceived political benefit. They DO want to overturn it. They WILL overturn it. You think they give a rats ass about it being an 'unpopular' decision? First of all, the USSC will be making the decision FOR them, so they will have plenty of political cover. Second, why do people think they 'lose it as a campaign issue' if Roe is overturned? Far from it! They will battle in the state level, and turn their attention to a constitutional amendment on the federal level.

The reason it is annoying to hear people say these things is that it makes it sound like there need not be concern about it. Ask yourself this: How many things has the Bush administration done that you NEVER thought they would do? What you thought they wouldn't have the unmitigated gaul to actually do? And then GET AWAY WITH IT! Yes. Many times. It will be no different with this.

Stop whistling past the graveyard people. It's like saying in 30s Germany - "Hitler would never exterminate the Jews.. He needs them for a campaign issue" - The mistake so many made then was simply doubting he would do the things that he said he would. Shrub has proven time and again he will do what he wants no matter how outrageous. Damn the people.

[melody]

1. You're right - at this point, they're capable of anything

I wouldn't be surprised to see Bush attempt *anything* now.

[unschooler]

2. They may well do it, but what will happen to them in the next

local, state and federal elections?

[bliss_eternal]

3. They aren't long range thinkers

they don't care about that.

[phrenzy]

5. Jack + Shit

Nothing will happen. Just like nothing has happened in the past 6 years.

[bliss_eternal]

8. Oh wait--we're on the same side--lol...

On edit..

Sorry phrenzy--I'm so upset right now with this alito thing...I've got tears in my eyes and misread your post. forgive me...

[gumby]

12. A lot of things will happen.

But, women will have already been declared second-class citizens by the United States Supreme Court.

When the states are all in an uproar over the overturning of Roe, then they'll get homosexuality federally outlawed. While the states continue to be in an uproar, the Supreme Court will continually strike down precedent that the fascists want on the federal level while overruling state laws they don't like at the local level. Got ya comming and going.

Then what? Ya gonna take it to the Court?

[CTyankee]

32. My point exactly

But to do the job both on abortion and gay rights they MUST get rid of the Griswold decision, which so strongly was used in the Roe and in the Lawrence (gay sodomy)decisions.

Sad to say, you will see DUers who believe that there really is NO right to sexual privacy. One DUer defended his opinion by saying his right to use birth control is a property right (the condom is my property, therefore the state cannot forbid me having one).

[mazzarro]

15. Absolutely Nothing!

If NOW and the Democratic party have been unsuccessful in rallying the liberal minded populace especially college-age women, then I foresee a nonchalant attitude that will continue for quite a while until some catastrophic things start to happen. People are too indolent these days to take most things serious.

[unschooler]

38. The repukes have had a free pass to pander to the Religious Reich, because

people don't think the SCOTUS will protect them. When they can no longer hide behind Roe, legislators on every level will have to answer to the people for their votes on privacy issues. Seems to me that would be bad for republicans, but, then I live on the left coast where there's light and air and access to contraception....

[unschooler]

40. Whoops! I meant people think SCOTUS WILL protect them!

Must have been a Freudian slip! :crazy:

[Baconfoot]

17. Who cares? SC appointments are for life. NT

[tavalon]

21. Nothing

Have you been introduced to Diebold yet?

[Qanisqineq]

4. I hear ya

I hate reading "they'll never overturn Roe vs. Wade". Just wishful thinking. Sure they will, and then they'll start working on getting rid of birth control pills. Then evolution being taught in schools - or at least add ID.

I feel the same way about statements such as, "This is the last straw! Bush is toast!" and other such statements. It's all just wishful thinking. Bush gets away with everything. He wants total control of everything and he is getting it.

It just feels so hopeless.

[phrenzy]

7. So True..

If I had a penny for every time I heard "This is IT - He has gone too far now!"

Face it. The problem is beyond our control. The problem is the fear and ignorance of the American people.

[Qanisqineq]

13. yep, we'd be millionaires

"Be afraid! 9/11, 9/11, 9/11! Terrorists!" That's all Americans hear. The media doesn't report anything, or if they do they spin it in Bush's favor.

Bush and his "armies of compassion" will work to overturn Roe because of his "culture of life." I think that will just make both Bush and his religious-fanatic base feel even more empowered. The republicans will find another issue to get their base out to the polls. There will always be some other issue that the evangelicals can get fired up about: Birth control, intelligent design, prayer in schools, the list goes on and on.

[bliss_eternal]

6. Thank you for saying this...

I'm sick of it, too.

Nominated for main page.

[lvx35]

9. I'm not so sure...

The reason I question the seriousness of their desire to overturn roe v wade is because its a classicly conservative cause, and a great deal of what I have seen coming out of this administration is not even conservative in a traditional sense, its totalitarian...For instance, government spending, foreign intervention, government power, the list goes on and on, and doesn't fit the conservatism of yore. What I have seen is an administration who wants nothing more than to increase their power... to hell with "limited government". So when you look at whether or not roe v wade will be overturned, the only real question to ask is "will it increase their power". If the answer is no, I don't think there will be a lot of pressure to overturn it. To be honest, I am more afraid of issues of presidential power right now.

[phrenzy]

10. Really?

You honestly don't see the trend toward theocratic rule with this bunch?

[lvx35]

41. The thing is that I don't know

For me it goes back Hitler as well...On one hand you had liberals, communists etc who didn't like what he was selling in his speeches, then you had people who bought the sales pitch; a return to a simpler better way of life, folk spirit, etc. Really both groups got screwed in the end, there was a secret agenda at play. I don't claim to know what Bush's secret agenda is, but I do know that the secrecy is very clearly there, and generally secrecy is there for a reason....Is it hiding theocratic stuff? Monarchy? Teletubby worship? I don't know!

[bliss_eternal]

11. Understand your argument--

but can those that make this argument understand how it diminishes the feelings of those that DO BELIEVE they will overturn it? It's dismissive to say they won't and we shouldn't worry.

This idiot is a psychopath and * will do whatever * wants to do...

[lvx35]

42. fair enough

but I also think you've got be open to the speculation that may not be what * wants to do. Its true he just does what he wants, but what he wants isn't so clear; this guy is so secretive he bypassed the *secret* courts to spy on who-knows-what because he has so much to hide. I still am not entire sure why the Iraq war actually took place. This guys intentions are pretty shadowy!

[bliss_eternal]

44. I'll give you that

there seems to be no gauging his intentions. For such a simpleton, he's very secretive.

[Czolgosz]

14. Those who say "well why haven't overturned it already" misunderstand the

anti-choice goal. They aren't seeking to overrule -- they are seeking push the battle in various state legislatures to limit Roe v. Wade in a way that makes it all but illegal.

Kennedy -- who some people to think is ath "white knight" of reproductive freedom -- is no friend of Roe v. Wade. He's not for overruling it, but he's
in favor of allowing a state impose just about any restriction it wants on the right of reproductive freedom as long as there is some protection for a threat-to-the-woman's-health exception during the first 22 weeks of her pregnancy. We have every reason to believe that Roberts will be at best comparable to Kennedy on the reproductive freedom (more likely to the right) and Alito is clearly far to the right of Kennedy (and perhaps to the right of Scalia and Thomas, too).

Will they outright overrule Roe? No.

The Supreme Court with Alito would likely allow Kansas -- if Kansas wanted to pass such a law -- to (1) ban all abortions after 22 weeks into the pregnancy notwithstanding risks to the woman's health, (2) require that all abortions must be preformed at a hospital and not a clinic (and, by the way, very few hospitals perform abortions), (3) require notification to, and consent from, a woman's doctor, husband, and father of the fetus (plus both parents for all minors) as long as there was a health-threat-to-the-mother exception, (4) impose special fees, (5) require attendance at pre-abortion classes with a lot of misleading and religious-tainted bullshit about supposed health risks from abortions, (6) impose a two week "cooling off" period, (7) require registration as an abortion recipient, etc.

Those people who say "Don't worry, Roe v. Wade is safe" have not read the relevant judicial decisions.

[rucky]

16. False dichotomy.

Who says you can't support a filibuster AND think the GOP won't overturn Roe? They both make sense to me.

[Baconfoot]

18. What false dichotomy?The OP didn't even mention filibuster

You are right though, it is consistent to support a filbuster and think the GOP won't overturn Roe.

Wrong, but consistent. ;)

[rucky]

43. I hope we never have to find out who's right. n/t

[xchrom]

19. indeed they will.

from faith based intitiatives to roe v wade -- conservatives do not have a problem with going after their agenda.

they have the good sense to build on success in the minds of their constituents.

[tavalon]

20. I agree

I once was one of those naysayers but no more.

[hlthe2b]

22. Agree...

[foreverdem]

23. I agree

Didn't * tell all those at the anti choice rally yesterday that 'we will prevail'? I wouldn't put anything past this administration.

[BlueEyedSon]

24. They will only overturn RvW after all other mechanism to control

election results are in place. Which could be now i suppose.....

[cali]

25. Sorry, I'll say what I wanna say

I still think it's unlikely that they'll overturn Roe. Much more likely that they'll continue to gut it under the undue burden test. And many savvy insiders think that's exactly what will happen. Historically, it's not easy to take away constitutional rights. I started a thread a few days ago stating that, if the choice is between gutting Roe, and overturning it, I hope they overturn it. Better a slap in the face that wakes people up then the leaving Roe on the books with no meaningful access, thus lulling people into thinking that they retain a right that in reality, they no longer have. (I'd prefer, of course, that Roe remain a meaningful right, but the past 14 years have already seen considerable diminishment of Roe)

Yes, if it gets overturned it goes back to the states, and I predict a strong backlash against the GOP. A significant majority of Americans are pro-choice. Do Republican know this and are they concerned about it? You betcha. SCOTUS provides zero political cover for pukes who have been mouthing the anti-choice line. And they know it. Saying that the Court is unllikely to overturn Roe, (at least in the next 5 years) is NOT saying there is no need to be concerned about the status of access to abortion. Some of us have been pointing out for years that abortion rights are endangered under the undue burden test.

As far as their ability to get a constitutional amendment passed, forget it. They don't have anywhere near the numbers.

[Lars39]

26. Well said.

Diebold, perpetual war, disappearing middle class, and martial law all have a say in the timing,
but I believe it will happen.
There's no need for a wedge issue if elections are rigged or if enough people get kicked off the voting rolls
or there aren't even elections.

[grrl62]

27. you're right

:cry:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. Yes, they want to. But, they'll settle for making it meaningless.

By chipping away at a woman's right to abortion with "hot button" issues to bamboozle the citizenry like "partial-birth", "parental notification", and "spousal notification".

[Strathos]

29. I hope they do, in a way, overturn it

It will be the biggest mistake of their working lives.

I predict if they overturn Roe v. Wade the outcry will be ear splitting and felt for years to come.

[mwb970]

33. AND they would lose their single biggest issue with the religious nuts.

Roe plays a similar role for Bush as does Osama: a boogeyman to rouse the rabble with. Why would he want Roe overturned (or Osama captured)?

Remember, with the Busheviks, what's good for America has nothing to do with it.

[lukasahero]

34. Sorry, but why is it always men who say this?

Sure, YOU hope they overturn it - YOU will never be affected by it. So go ahead and play your little political games with women's lives. We don't mind.

[Strathos]

39. I don't mean that at all

I honestly would hate for them to do that, but if they do, they'll pay the price.

Here's what I don't understand.

If it is such a concern with women, and there are way more women in the U.S. than men, why don't they do something about it.

Women alone could have elected a president that was liberal, but they didn't.

I think its the same reason why we liberals can't get a candidate elected, we can't unify.

[lonestarnot]

30. Roe v. Wade will be the least of our problems when the unilateral

executive branch has a seal of approval from SCOTUS.

[mom cat]

31. This is why our senators must go to the mat for us in defeating Alito!

We cannot afford to be complacent...then blame our senators for being complacent. Pressure them hard then let them know that you have their backs. This is going to get ugly. Be ready with LTTE's and your sheeches for call in shows.
Fasten your seatbelts and stick together.

[pecwae]

35. So very true & agree.

Never say never with this administration.

[centristo]

36. this is what will happen if roe is overturned

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition#Prohibition_in_the_United_States

Some surprising facts about Prohibition:

* During Prohibition, temperance activists hired a scholar to rewrite the Bible by removing all references to alcohol beverage.

* The Ku Klux Klan (KKK) strongly supported Prohibition and its strict enforcement.

* A major prohibitionist group, the Woman's Christian Temperance Union (WCTU) taught as "scientific fact" that the majority of beer drinkers die from dropsy.

* When the ship, Washington, was launched, a bottle of water rather than tradional champagne or wine, was ceremoniously broken across her bow.


We need to get ready for the misinformation campaign.

[donheld]

37. Anyone thinking the GOP will never overturn Roe are

only fooling themselves. Of course they will.

[NewJeffCT]

45. They will keep chipping away at it

The more severe restrictions currently in the court system will be upheld.

Then, the states will pass even more restrictions, with some states passing outright bans.

Those restrictions & bans are upheld.

However, the RR still has their issue because some states still allow abortion. They will keep working on those states, pouring their money into the 15-20 states where it is legal, instead of scattering it across 50 states. They will also try to pass restrictions at the federal level as well.