CSPAN2: Senate now voting on torture bills

[LSK]

The Levin version is up 1st - watch as that one fails.

[derby378]

1. Oh, no...

:cry:

[BelgianMadCow]

2. Now voting on the Levin amendment says the Span title?

I'm not sure, what with all these "versions" circulating.

[LSK]

5. yes, this passed out of his subcommittee 15-9

Im not totally sure of the differences but there is a difference that the Admin's bill excuses torture before Sept 2005.

[BelgianMadCow]

10. So why are there only a coupe of yeas and nays - that's only on Levin's

amendment they way I take it.

All the dems are saying yes so I guess that's it.

[rodeodance]

3. so is the house. discussion here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2235734

[rodeodance]

4. k

[LSK]

8. the Senate is where things can be killed

I have seen a brazilian things go through in the House on party line votes.

[CottonBear]

6. C-SPAN link for video and radio:

http://www.c-span.org/watch/index.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS&ShowVidDays=30&ShowVidDesc=&ArchiveDays=30

[mtnester]

7. Senate looks like a quorum call to me...no one there

House just passed their version..no vote in the Senate yet

[LSK]

9. it is a vote on the Levin version

"Mr Stevens, no"

[Nictuku]

12. Landrieu No

Is that the Democrat from Louisianna?

[mtnester]

11. LANDRIEU..dammit...NO

a Dem votes no

[LSK]

13. I thought I heard Obama vote no??

[MrCoffee]

14. Obama voted Yes.

[LSK]

17. ok, im doing too much at once, lol

[MrCoffee]

16. WHAT THE FUCKING HELL?!?!?!

[acmejack]

Ms. Landrieu-No...

Thanks, Mary for yet another one...

[Sugarcoated]

15. Landreu

No. Unreal.

[LSK]

18. Reid Aye

So the only Dem defector is Landrieu?

[Sugarcoated]

19. Even Pryor voted yes to this.

[LSK]

20. Mr SoreLoserman? Aye

[mtnester]

22. So did Jeffords

Landrieu is about to screw us
Chaffee - AYE!!

[kerry-is-my-prez]

24. Did I hear Lieberman voted yes?

n/t

[LSK]

33. yes

[moondust]

21. Lieberman aye.

[moondust]

23. Chaffee aye.

[LSK]

29. I cant recall Chaffee ever voting with Republicans

[skipos]

55. You should look into his votes then, because he often votes with Repubs

most importantly, he is enables rightwing nuttery by caucusing with the Repubs, but he has plenty of lame votes. Whitehouse (D) would be a much better senator for progressives, Chafee needs to go.

[mtnester]

25. Chaffee - Aye

Hagel No?????

[me b zola]

51. Hagel is like Spector

They both pretend to object to the lawless admin and Congress, but then they votes with the other pukes anyway.

[acmejack]

26. Well folks, looks like it's official.

We're a torturing Dictatorship. As Ben Franklin said we have a Democracy, if we can keep it. Mark the time and date, well. We will be able to tell our children the exact time and date when we lost it.

[LSK]

30. its not over yet, this is just on the Levin amendment

We can still filibuster the final bill.

[DoYouEverWonder]

38. Here's a list of Senate contacts

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

Time to burn up the wires.

[cornermouse]

61. Filibuster??????

Did I hear the word filibuster?

:rofl:

Yeah right. Like that will ever happen.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

32. Long live the new fascist state. Long live Herr Leader Bush!!

n/t

[mtnester]

35. An AYE vote on this is what we are looking for I believe

stay focused

[mtnester]

27. Wait, did I hear Hagel vote NO?

did my ears screw up?

[MrCoffee]

28. What's the count so far?

[acmejack]

34. We've lost.

I think there have been 4 defections.

[BelgianMadCow]

39. No, not "lose" - went on record with the right stance

you know in advance they (R houses) ain't gonna stop rubberstamping now.

Actually, whether that stance was so rightful I'm not so sure about - haven't read the Levin amendment - but he sure argued a couple of important points.

[ralps]

31. Nelson of Nebraska- No!!

:grr:

[kerry-is-my-prez]

36. Thank God my wimpy Dem. Senator voted "aye" - Nelson of Florida

He usually does vote with the Dems on the impt issues.

[LSK]

37. thats a shocker

The Nelsons usually vote GOP.

[MrCoffee]

40. What's the fucking vote count? will they filibuster? aaarrrrghhhh!!!

[LSK]

41. if I am correct, I think you dont filibuster an amendment

Once there are no more amendments, then you vote for cloture. Thats when they will need 60 yes votes. Thats when we can stop them.

[MrCoffee]

43. The full bill. If there are less than 60 no's on this vote, they should

filibust. Is filibust a word?

This amendment is the weather balloon.

[depakid]

46. The Democrtic "leadership" is too cowardly for that

[LSK]

47. filibuster = voting for cloture

Meaning, it needs 60 votes of yes to go to a final vote.

[ralps]

42. Frell!! Yays-43, Nays- 54!! on Levin amendment!!

:grr:

[MiniMe]

44. You have it backwards, the Levin amendment failed

Landrieu votes Nay as well as Nelson. The rest of the dems votes Aye

[ralps]

59. Oops!! I'll change it!

[Finder]

45. hmm, I think that is backwards. n/t

[BelgianMadCow]

48. Specter / Feingold / Dorgan amendment up for vote : maintain habeas corpus

Damn this doesn't look like it's gonna follow party lines. That is good news in and of itself.

Specter citing the constitution - No rebellion or invasion!!

[LSK]

49. hes been saying that all week

[BelgianMadCow]

56. missed that

do you think there are more dissenters in the Rs (people that would vote aye on this amendment).

Personally, I am surprised to see Feingold attached. I remeber he is strong on the constitution - but I'm only watching from far away...

[Finder]

50. I hope he sticks to his guns...n/t

[BelgianMadCow]

52. Specter is saying the bill doesn't pass SC muster

referring to Rehnquist confirmation where Rehnquist said congress CANNOT repeal jurisdiction of a federal court when the 1st amandment is involved.

BOING

[mmonk]

53. Yes, habeas corpus

is vital for modern democratic societies.

[MrCoffee]

58. and ancient ones. it was in the magna carta.

[mmonk]

60. Yep

When you get rid of that, you're really regressive (12th century or something like that).

[BelgianMadCow]

62. Specter is demanding testimony about Gitmo obtained LAST monday

be included in the record. Testimony before judiciary comitte. This could be what was referred to as damning info about to be released and precipitating the torture bill.

[BelgianMadCow]

66. Graham is asking "who has to decide who an unlawful combatant is"

and his answer is : the military , not the courts.

I think I'm gonna be sick. Can someone please explain me WHAT an enemy combatant is ? I think it's the new definition of the Untermensch, there!

[Solly Mack]

75. link below explains how Bush deliberately confused the terms

and made up terms ...he created a new category basically(and created it without the right to do so)
http://talkleft.com/new_archives/002239.html

[gumby]

54. This is so Horribly Depressing.

The U.S.A. has become GOP Tortureville.

[Solly Mack]

57. the real foot note in America's history will be?

* the Constitution

[leftchick]

80. Solly

I have not been this despondent since Shock and Awful. :cry:

American is so far gone it will never resemble what it used to.

:cry:

[Solly Mack]

81. ((((leftchick)))))

Me too :(

[leftchick]

84. this is really beyond belief

I knew I should have gotten my family out two years ago. Very soon it will be too late. :cry:

[BelgianMadCow]

63. Does this issue not deserve 5 recs people?

I think many want to follow.

[annabanana]

64. I think voting for TORTURE will be much harder to explain

than having voted for the Iraq war is.

How can anyone countenance a vote FOR torture? I just don't understand.

[annabanana]

65. OK, a wiser head explain to me...

Why aren't the Democrats fighting this one? Why is a vote for torture ok? Enemy combatants are whoever B*sh says they are... There will be no right to know WHY you're being detained....

wtf?

[BelgianMadCow]

67. They are only discussing an amendment now - some R's are still opposing

for now :-)

See upthread : Specter/Dorgan/Feingold amendment.
I think we will see some of the Dems later. Think/hope/wish for a strong statement or some nice stalling tactics till after the election.

[LSK]

70. yes, there is debate time for both sides on each amendment

[LSK]

68. thats why they are proposing amendments that are getting shot down

Also they still have the filibuster option and prevent a vote for cloture.

[BelgianMadCow]

71. hope you don't mind me chiming in LSK

obviously, you're much more wellversed on this subject. Sure don't want to highjack the thread.

[LSK]

76. i dont mind, post away!

:hi:

[annabanana]

74. thanks, both to you and the classy cow!. . . n/t

[Robbien]

69. The Dems are following their consultant's advice

{you know the highly paid consultants which have caused them to follow the losing strategy to move to the center)

Reid's words:

Reid indicated that his party does not want to stand in the way of its passage, all but ensuring it will. "I repeat, we all want to make sure these bad people are brought to justice," he said.

Consultants order Dems to look strong on defense and pass the torture bill. Dumb DC Dems say okay.

[LSK]

72. see post 18

[Warren DeMontague]

73. Don't you love the way our discourse is watered down to a 2nd grade level?

It's not about the Geneva Convention, The Constitution, or even about doing what is smart, effective and prudent in fighting terrorism; it's about "the bad people"

[mmonk]

79. Someone needs to inform him bad people are brought

to justice throught the court system. The only people who think that this proposal is justice are BAD people.

[MrCoffee]

77. Oh sit down Lindsey Graham, you gasbag.

[gumby]

78. 'Lil Lindsay Graham says we don't want to change who we are.

Who are we if the Constitution is just a god damned piece of paper?

[femmedem]

106. Not even a piece of paper. A comma. n/t

[BelgianMadCow]

82. They are really trying to play SCOTUS now

doing nothing but slapping SCOTUS decisions around.

If anything, the discussion itself shows that the SCOTUS (and not a district court or military tribunal) is the one one to judge on these matters!!

[Wisconsin Larry]

83. Dems will regret not taking a stronger stand against torture for many

reasons. Here's just one from Glenn Greenwald in the salon.com War Room http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/index.html?source=refresh

"Beltway Democrats and many of their supporters seem incapable of understanding that their central flaw has not been that they are "too liberal" on national security, but that they are perceived as standing for nothing. They appear weak and unprincipled not when it comes to standing up to the terrorists, but when it comes to standing up to the president for what they actually believe. Support for the torture bill is unconscionable; that ought to go without saying. But it is also politically self-destructive, because it depresses their base (who wants to vote for a party that supports the president's torture bill?) and inflames the perception that they are unwilling to fight for their convictions unless doing so is politically expedient."

Not pushing for a filibuster and speaking out strongly against torture and destroying the Constitution is support.

[dapper]

85. Kit Bond- What a loser...

What a loser...

[MrCoffee]

91. He was DEFENDING Korematsu on the floor of the US Senate...

i have no response to that.

[LSK]

86. Obama coming up????

[MrCoffee]

87. they called for a quorum????

[LSK]

90. I guess to wait for Obama to show up??

I heard someone in the background say to Warner that Obama is coming down to speak.

[MrCoffee]

93. don't they close the doors during a quorum?

i think they're stonewalling him!

[LSK]

98. no, they are just waiting for him

Obamas speech would not be part of the debate on the Specter amendment.

[BelgianMadCow]

88. Senator Obama may be coming down for a statement on the amendment

I just heard that being said

[MrCoffee]

89. and then someone called for a quorum...last i heard the

chair ordered the clerk to call the roll

[BelgianMadCow]

92. Yep, is that for the vote n the amendment then?

Only one name was called , Ankara if that is possible :blush:

I think they're waiting for Obama to show up basically.

[LSK]

97. its not a vote, its just time filler

They are just waiting for someone to come to speak....

[LSK]

94. no more votes tonite, morning business coming up

[BelgianMadCow]

99. Warner said to have a prompt vote on the Specter amendment after morning

business - is that no longer in this session then?

[LSK]

100. morning business is a term

Meaning its speeches made that are not restricted to any debate time limits.

Notice how Specter asked how much time he had left??? Each bill proposal has a certain time limit for each side. Morning business speeches do not take time from bill debates.

[MrCoffee]

101. who made the quorum call?

i know it's nitpicky, but if it was Specter, then maybe he's for real on this. if it was graham, then they're bastards.

[LSK]

103. they are just waiting for someone to speak

http://www.senate.gov/reference/glossary_term/quorum_call.htm

[MrCoffee]

105. Thanks. My Senate procedure SUCKS

[BelgianMadCow]

102. and the session ends with it then

strange naming. I am a bit off due to the time difference :-)

[LSK]

104. it is 7:30 at night there

:)

[EFerrari]

95. These proceedings are shameful. Just shameful.

Anyone sitting in this Senate should just die of shame.

:nuke:

[MrCoffee]

96. They stonewalled Obama!