Rumsfeld: unclear when Iraq troops can replace U.S.

[NNN0LHI]

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-09-27T124423Z_01_L27699613_RTRUKOC_0_US-IRAQ-USA-RUMSFELD.xml&WTmodLoc=NewsHome-C1-topNews-1

TIRANA (Reuters) - U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said on Wednesday that American operations in Iraq would end when Iraqi security forces were able to take over the job, but he would not estimate when that might be.

"Our view has been that it's for the Iraqi people to provide for their government, for the Iraqi people to provide for their own security, and our task has been to assist them during this period, the early days of their free system, so they can develop the security forces capable of providing for security in the country," he told reporters in the Albanian capital Tirana.

He said Iraqi security forces were making progress and beginning to take on additional responsibilities. But he would not estimate when the transfer of authority for security in all provinces could happen.

"One can't predict with perfect certainty the pace at which that will happen," Rumsfeld said. "We do know it is happening."

"Trying to set a specific date just isn't manageable," he said, speaking after a meeting of southeast European defense ministers.

[spanone]

1. The first two words say it all: Rumsfeld unclear.

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. My thots exactly

[Warren Stupidity]

2. When the last helicopter takes off from Saddam's palace

in the Green Zone with assorted terrified Iraqis who made the wrong choice desperately clinging to the runners. That is when Iraqi troops will take over.

[rsdsharp]

4. Here's what I don't understand

Thanksgiving weekend we will have been in Iraq as long as our total involvement in WWII. In that war we trained more than 5 million men. The average period of time for a US service person to spend in basic training is 9 weeks (it varies by service). After that, they go to Advanced Individual Training, which takes several more weeks. By any stretch of the imagination, the individual is fully trained in less than six months. Is the training running out of the Iraqi's ears when they lay down at night?

If we haven't been able to train sufficient Iraqi troops to "stand up" so that we can "stand down" by now, we never will.

[Jacobin]

6. I have some troubling thoughts for you:

The Iraqi military, on the whole, is not going to be loyal to the puppet government we installed. Additionally, american troops direct the Iraqi troops, not Iraqis.

They are getting a paycheck since there is 70% unemployment in Iraq. They have to survive and they are going through the motions.

In addition, the Iraqi military is riddled with insurgent factions who know a good place to get guns and ammunition for their fight with each other.

See: Vietnamization. We tried the same smoke and mirrors in Viet Nam and it worked out about just as well as its going to work in IraqNam

[enigma000]

8. The US started with an corps of officers and NCOs in WWII

In Iraq, they are starting from scratch. Even those officers recruited from Saddam's army are in need of training on how a Western style military operates.

This takes time. NATO opened up a war collage in the Green Zone last year to train officers.

[NNN0LHI]

9. I must have missed that NATO had a war collage in the Green Zone

Where did you hear/read that at? Thanks in advance.

Don

[enigma000]

10. In response to a request by the Iraqi Government

NATO has established a Training Mission in Iraq and is running a training centre for senior security and defence officials on the outskirts of Baghdad I just assumed it was the Green Zone

In September 2005, NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer and Iraqi Prime Minister Al-Jafaari opened the Iraqi Joint Staff College in Ar-Rustamiyah, on the outskirts of the capital, where officer training now is primarily taking place.

http://www.nato.int/docu/update/2006/01-january/e0118a.htm

Iraq’s new National Defence College, which NATO helped to establish, opened on 3 September (2006), with the first students beginning courses on 4 September.

The College, which is part of the National Defence University, will train about 15 flag officers each year. Flag officers are very senior officers at the rank of colonel or general.

http://www.nato.int/docu/update/2006/09-september/e0903a.htm

[rsdsharp]

11. Your argument would apply if they were training themselves.

They're not. We're the ones that are training them. We have a corps of officers and NCOs. In WWII we went from a tiny standing army and navy to millions, fully trained and under arms (starting from scratch for the vast bulk of them) by the end of the war. We know how to train troops. We take raw recruits and fully train them in a matter of 5-6 months. It's been three and a half years. If they can't, or won't, grasp the training by now, they never will.

[Jacobin]

5. Goodness Gracious. Oh My. Heavens to Betsy.

These are just unknown knowns, commas, if you will, flowers in the streets and welcomed as liberators, fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here, and and and six more months, and we'll stand down when the Iraqis stand up(tm), and and and my heavens how time flies. Back to my bat cave

[Botany]

7. Replace our troops w/ College Republicans

All the campuses across the country bet you we could scrap up
130,000

Ohio State has 300.

Send them if they are so down with bush and the war.