Reuters: "We have first-hand experience of US soldiers shooting our staff"

[sabra]

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/article/021006/macdonald_on_reporting_from_iraq

Macdonald on reporting from Iraq

<snip>

"We have first-hand experience of US soldiers shooting our staff and we have been ourselves publicly critical of their investigation process.

A year ago one of our TV cameramen was shot dead by American soldiers, but the official investigation exonerated the US soldiers. We have very strong evidence the US soliders did break their own rules.

We have lost four people since the start of the war, all of them to American fire — although with one of them there was some doubt.

We've raised concerns about the extent to which the US military is holding their soldiers accountable."

[bryant69]

1. It'd be interesting to know what the overall figures are

- i.e. how many reporters have died in friendly fire incidents.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Warren Stupidity]

2. Why do you think this is 'friendly fire'?

That term should be restricted to armed forces firing on their own units. Shooting civilians, be they reporters or otherwise, is most likely a war crime unless it can be established that there was no intent, that it was in fact an accident. Given the number of journalists we have killed, and the details of the incidents themselves, accident is a very unlikely explanation.

The again we have decided that the GC do not apply to us, so war crimes be damned, shoot all the journalists you want.

[bryant69]

3. I apologize for misusing a term.

How many reporters hae been killed, over all?

[RebelOne]

4. According to this article, 100 since August 2006.

http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=18454

[bryant69]

5. 100 from the Start of the war to August 2006

Not 100 in the last 20 months.

Bryant

[bryant69]

7. Even that is a little dishonest

I mean that's 100 who have died since the beginning of the Iraqi war that's not 100 killed by American troops.

Bryant

[Warren Stupidity]

13. The report (not the article): 12% US forces.

http://www.rsf.org/IMG/pdf/Survey_RSF_Iraq_06.pdf

35% insurgents, 53% unknown.

"The repeated insistence by the US command in Iraq that its troops have acted "in accordance with the rules of engagement" or "in legitimate self-defence" is not enough. Six families of journalists killed by the US military wrote to the US congress in 2004 to complain about this situation and demand justice. They never got a reply."

[bryant69]

14. So the math is easy enough - 12 journalist killed by US troops

Some of those were probably accidents - it's not inconcievable that after several years of pretty heavy fighting they all are accidents- but since we think of the troops as murderers and rapists, I suppose it's more palatable to believe that some if not most of these were executions.

Bryant

[Warren Stupidity]

16. You can look at it through any color glasses you want..

Or you could read the reports and try and find out the facts.

Obviously all of these incidents could be accidents. Obviously all of these incidents could be deliberate. I think the report is pretty clear that they (reporters without frontiers) believe that many of the US inflicted deaths were less than accidental. Note also that the vast majority of cases (53%) are 'unknown'. So while you might get all comfortable with '12' as a small number, there is no reason to believe that we did not have a hand in some of the unknown incidents.

What we do know is that the killing of journalists in war zones has reached unprecedented levels.

[lonestarnot]

19. Do those glasses have red lenses?

[Warren Stupidity]

27. Any color you want.

The point was that absent actual research one is always free to draw any desired conclusion, right?

[lonestarnot]

18. WTF are you talking about?

"we think of the troops as murderers and rapists, I suppose it's more palatable to believe that some if not most of these were executions."

[bryant69]

23. I was referring to post # 11

[Crayson]

9. Remember...

Friendly Fire... isn't !!

[kiki]

6. "...all of them to American fire..."

So complete is the brainwashing of these poor fucking troops in Iraq that they'll happily shoot journalists who are trying to tell the American people about the plight of these VERY SAME SOLDIERS. Could this situation be any more fucked up?

Soldier: "Shit man, we haven't had effective armour or a decent meal in weeks."

Journo: "Wow, that sounds bad. Tell me about it, I'll let the American people know."

Soldier: "Oh, so you're a terrist-lovin' liberal, eh? Just like Rush said on AFR." - BANG.

[bryant69]

8. That little story says more about you than it says about the troops

Bryant

[kiki]

10. How so?

Does the OP not say that American journalists are being shot by American troops? Do those journalists want to do anything else except expose the plight of all those - including those self-same troops - caught up in the Great Iraq Clusterfuck?

And do the troops not recieve a steady diet of Rushbo and his ilk on AFR?

Does the guy in the Reuters OP "say more about himself" than about the situation too?

[bryant69]

11. You suppose motive

There's a line between these soldiers made a mistake and should be punished for it instead of having it covered up, and these soldiers are purposefully killing reporters in cold blood.

Bryant

[kiki]

12. Well, we'll have to disagree...

I think it's the height of naivety to assume that every one of these incidents is a big ol' oopsie-daisy, particularly considering the disgusting, virulent anti-journalist propaganda that is spewed out by the talking heads of US fascism every day, and which they apparently hear on a daily basis in the army.

Remember the Palestine Hotel? "Sorry, our bad"? Please.

Don't know if you heard, but the US army is killing, raping and torturing civilians over there every day (or maybe all those are just accidents too). You think they give a fuck about some "liberal" (remember, Rush and Bill-O say that ALL journalists are "liberal") newsmen?

[Igel]

15. No, the OP does not say that American journalists

are being shot by American troops. At least not in the way that your post suggests.

The OP says that Reuters mostly uses local reporters and cameramen. This means that some Americans may have been fired on--so your post isn't incorrect, just misleading. Most of the dead/wounded are likely to be from the region, and I suspect that the percentage dead/wounded exceeds the percentage of foreigners employed.

[rman]

21. What makes you think the soldiers who complain are the same

ones that kill journalists?

[lonestarnot]

17. WTF is intended by this post? Please clarify.

[bryant69]

25. I think it was clarified by our ongoing conversation

But what I am saying is that if you assume that our troops are that murderous, than it says something about how you look at American Troops. Maybe he's right and they are all raping murdering thugs; but I don't believe that.

Bryant

[me b zola]

20. k&r

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. Most of the soldiers I have talked to who have come back

have told me they are being ordered to kill women and children in Iraq. A good friend is right now trying to avoid his third deployment for this reason alone.

[Skidmore]

24. Rumsfeld's military is out of control, as is *'s neocon foreign policy.

[Imagevision]

26. Rumsfelds military are merely following orders

[chill_wind]

28. Murdered vs "crossfire"

This site keeps lots of data: http://www.cpj.org /

This much seems to destroy any popular media myth that most (American or otherwise) are killed in weapons crossfire:

DEATHS BY CIRCUMSTANCE
1996-2005

Murder: 238 (70.4 percent)
Crossfire in war: 67 (19.8 percent)
Reporting in other dangerous circumstances: 33 (9.8 percent) *

* Includes such things as street demonstrations and catastrophes.


MURDER'S BACK STORY
1996-2005

Murders with impunity: 202 (84.9 percent) **

Kidnapped before slain: 29 (12.2 percent)

Threatened before murdered: 61 (25.7 percent)

** Cases in which those who ordered killings have not been arrested and prosecuted.



more:
http://www.cpj.org/killed/killed_archives/stats.html

as cited here:


Journalists Who Lie, Journalists Who Die

A veteran journalist assesses the international trend of journalists targeted for their truth-telling against a backdrop of recent fraud in American newsrooms.

By Betty Medsger
April 26, 2004

see:
http://foi.missouri.edu/mediacredibility/jwholie.html


In Iraq (see internal links at http://www.cpj.org/Briefings/Iraq/Iraq_danger.html:

Capsule reports on journalists killed:
• for 2006
• for 2005
• for 2004
• for 2003

By Year:
• 2006: 20
• 2005: 22
• 2004: 24
• 2003: 14

By Nationality:
• Iraqi: 59
• European: 11
• Other Arab countries: 3
• United States: 2
• All other countries: 5