So, would President Gore be in the Oval Office today if he'd used Clinton

[villager]

on the campaign trail in '00?

Does today's Clinton-capture of the news-cycle from the Darkside show that?

Or did Bill lack the particular, angry "fire in the belly" then? Remember Clinton's recent library-opening comments about "liking" both Bush and Kerry...

Maybe ol' Grande Woof wouldn'ta been capable, or allowed himself, to unleash (so to speak?) that way in earlier campaigns...

And: Will he keep at 'em, now that they're momentarily dazed in the late rounds?

[boolean]

1. Nobody knew how bad * would be back then...

I don't think it would've made a difference. People only cared about a blowjob and what it would do to the "children" back then.

[villager]

3. no one would've listened, true -- but some of us

knew exactly how bad Bush would be -- you could see the psychosis in his eyes, during the "debates." Really... I kept having "Dead Zone" type moments of what it would mean for America if that psychopath got it...

And I wasn't alone...

[lapfog_1]

15. I was with you

*I* didn't like the little shit from the very first time I saw him on the tube. I had a feeling
that bunnypants was lying when he said that he was a "compassionate conservative" and a "uniter, not
a divider". When I told my friends this, they all told me he would follow in his dads footsteps
and be, at most, a corporatist... and that nominating Cheney for the Veep spot was a sop to his
right wing base and a signal that GHW presidency would be continued by the dimson. But I argued
that there wasn't something "right" about *, and that Gore and * were really waaay different beasts,
not two sides of the same coin (I was arguing with fellow Greenies that wanted to vote for Nader).

Never in my life have I been more sorry about being right.

* has turned out to be the opposite of Gore, and the worst thing to challenge our democracy in the
entire history of the US (including the civil war).

I resigned my Green party membership the day the supreme court ruled on Bush V. Gore.

[villager]

20. yeah, I wish I'd been wrong about the exact same set of vibes

Alas, if anything, the "vibestream" underestimated how mean/vindictive/amoral the little shit would be...

[kath]

24. Also, way back during the 2000 "debates" some of us were very suspicious

that Chimpyshit was being fed his answers through an earpiece...

I knew he was going to be BAD, but didn't imagine it would get THIS bad.

[JCMach1]

37. I saw the vacuous POS as TX governor

People in TX especially knew.

[Jacobin]

42. Oh yes they did

A LOT of people knew. Just not enough, thanks to the media worship and NO investigation of Bush's past record

[Rex]

2. No, Gore didn't stand a chance, neither did Kerry.

They're honorable men fighting rats that have no morals. In a dirty fight, the cheater wins everytime.

I love what Al Gore has become and feel sorry (like I always do) for Bill.

[villager]

4. so how do we fight amoral rightwing nihilists, then?

he asked, out of curiosity...

[Rex]

12. We don't, we lay down and die.

We wait until they kick in OUR door, before we officially declare fascism. Until then, we just bide our time like a clock counting down the days.

Hey, look on the brightside! American Empire sounds so much more manly!!!!

Actually we don't need to fight it, Bush is on a self-fulfilling prophesy of failure. We (Dems), unfortunately (like we did for Reagan) will be leftover to 'clean up the mess'. Like always.

The Repukers 'crash the party' and we get left with the bill and cleaning up the mess they make.

Like always.

[villager]

13. when the actual grown-ups are in charge again?

n/t

[Rex]

17. YES!!!

At least until the children find a way to outsmart the grown-ups again. It does happen.

[villager]

23. yet my children have way more ethics & compassion that GOPpers...

n/t

[Rex]

36. That's true, we should NEVER call them children.

It is an insult to kids everywhere. Let us be honest, Bush/Cheney are evil men who love death and suffering.

[villager]

46. it's "thanatos syndrome" all the way with this cabal!

n/t

[Imagevision]

16. Gore didn't stand a chance? - Supreme court stopped count, appointed

Bush the winner when Dade County Florida wasn't finished counting !!!

[Rex]

25. And to this day, history records Gore as the 2000 winner.

But, as we all know, history can be rewritten and 'facts' altered for world domination organizations like Carlyle and Halliburton.

[MidwestTransplant]

5. Clinton's lapses were the reason Bush "won".

Edited to add quotation marks.

[villager]

9. true enough -- Clinton's weaknesses hampered Gore, but:

would Gore's margin of actual victory been more tamper-proof if Clinton had campaigned in the south?

Or has it taken this long for Clinton to "wake up" from his careful political persona? (Which he may have been rebelling against with the whole Lewinsky thing, but enuff armchair shrinking...)

[William769]

10. Oh man! I'm glad I'm wearing my boots!

:eyes:

[MidwestTransplant]

39. The Republicans would have had no argument in 2000

if not for Clinton. I like him very much, think he was a great president but he is to blame. Just my opinion.

[WinkyDink]

30. Bush didn't win.

[MidwestTransplant]

31. True. I shold revise to say "reason Bush assumed the presidency."

[ljm2002]

6. Yes...

...not only that, his choice of "Holy Joe" Lieberman as his running mate, to "distance" himself from Clinton, was a huge error.

Granted it's hindsight and Monday morning quarterbacking, still, a smart politician should have realized two things: (a) Clinton and Gore had an *excellent* record to present that Gore could have used; and (b) Clinton was still hugely popular (66-67% approval ratings, even at the height of the impeachment proceedings).

Man oh man, I surely wish he'd have made some different choices.

But that was then and this is now, we can't rewrite history.

[blm]

7. Clinton got impeached because media wanted him to. Gore got impeachmented

next. And then Kerry got impeachmented.

This is the new corporate media REALITY.

Clinton couldn't stop the media from impeaching him, and couldn't stop the media move against Gore, and post 9-11 media was NEVER going to honestly cover another Democrat or American issue - no matter what.

THAT's the reality. That's our real battle. They are the front line of offense and defense for BushInc, and it's past time the Dem party start exposing them, or risk never being heard fairly.

[KoKo]

33. blm....you and I know "Dem Party" wil Never Expose this ...so why would

you think that getting Dems in would cause this to be exposed? :shrug:

[boolean]

8. And guys...Let's not forget that Gore actually may have WON

Voter disenfranchisement in Florida, a stacked supreme court...I don't know if the voting machines were rigged in 2000 (Though they were in 2002 and in 2004).

And Gore won the popular vote, remember?

[dogday]

11. Bush said, I won Florida, My Brother told me I would

win Florida.... I don't think it would of mattered....

[edhopper]

14. Can't we remember that

Gore won. And given what happen in Ohio, Kerry probably also won. Could Clinton have stopped Rove from fixing the election?

[cally]

18. What is the point of this question?

I just don't believe we can analyze exactly the politics and the media at that time. Gore is not sitting in the White House for many reasons and I blame the media for most of it. I also blame the campaign for thinking the media was neutral but I don't believe many of us would have thought otherwise at that time. We are too frustrated, angry, too close to truly analyze what happened. I have my theories but I wonder if it's what I'll believe in a few decades.

[villager]

21. this very conversation's the point -- as well as a rumination on Clinton's

late-found explosiveness....

[INdemo]

19. Clinton has said from the beginning that the impeachment issue was

strictly partisan politics...With the Clinton approval rating still high Gore would have benefited with Clinton campaigning..(he probably would have carried Arkansas)but Gore would have benefited even more had he not chose Lieberman as VP..
But the fact is Gore didn't lose...

[villager]

34. all true --

A stronger ticket without Lieberman, a chance to carry Arkansas if Clinton had campaigned there, and in spite of it, he actually won anyway...

[Captain Hilts]

22. If he WON HIS HOME STATE. It's not about Clinton. nt

[kath]

27. Uh, election fraud did not happen only in FL, Plenty of questionable

things occurred in Tennessee as well, though it hasn't gotten much publicity. Gore may very well have won TN.

[peacebuzzard]

40. I live in Tennessee.

people who live here know why he lost.

Gore is a progressive liberal. Most Tennesseans are not.

In order to live here, one must really enjoy other diversions rather than sensible current affairs dialogs while you are out and about.

Oh, you can talk about the weather, the football games, holidays, children........But global impact, or even local dilemmas are tough to hash out.

[Ignacio Upton]

47. Gore could have won New Hampshire had Nader not run

But Nader wasn't the only factor in getting Bush in the White House.

[zeemike]

26. I know this may sound strange like I am bragging of claiming

Psychic ability but way back in 99 I predicted that bush would win(and my phrase then was) by hook or by crook.
But it was not clairvoyant ability but something I saw in poppy bush that made me realize that he was supposed to win against Clinton in 92 to finish his agenda (which at the time I did not know just what that was) He counted on his popularity rating and his war in the gulf and figured wrongly that he was a shoo in.
So when boy george ran and got the nomination I was sure he would be the next president because the stakes for the neo cons were too high to rely on winning fairly. Boy george was going to win no matter how many votes they would have to steal, but the trick was to steal just enough to win and make it close so as not to be obvious.
Mission accomplished and again in 04.
So there we are and in06 the stakes are still high unless they can get the War Crimes Protection Act passed. That is there plan B in case something goes wrong in the election.

[villager]

28. er, have you "seen" "Plan B" then?

Anything we should know about?

[zeemike]

35. No of course not

But it seems to me that the legislation could be a get out of jail free card if something should go wrong and the democrats win the election.
My point in this is to say that the neo cons have a lot riding on this election...they could wind up on trail for some of the things they did so I expect them to pull out every dirty trick in there bag to win it.
The biggest mistake we could make is to underestimate them because of a tin foil hat you may see on my head.

[villager]

43. well, no, their side is capable of anything...

going back to the "lone nut" assassinations of the 60's -- so yes, praise the Lord and pass the tinfoil!

[WinkyDink]

29. That was then, this is now. Monica wasn't a footnote in 2000.

[KoKo]

32. NO!!!!!

[ObaMania]

38. No, but maybe if they chose someone other than JoMentum he would be. n/t

[kentuck]

41. You shall have no wine before its time...

No. That time was different from today. Circumstances have changed.

[Parche]

44. gore

He blew it by making Lieberwoman his VP choice...........period.

[omega minimo]

45. President Gore needed to distance himself from corporat rule and Clinton's

corporatocracy/globalization enabling......... his numbers would have pulled away from the ripoff perpetrated by Republicans.

[villager]

48. yeah, he needed to shed the DLC cloak...

which, it appears, he finally has...