Why cant we just admit that all politicians are crap

[eggbeater]

Lets face it, until we recognize the problem and we use our right to vote to correct it, we will have the same old BS forever that we have now.
It really makes no difference between the democrats and the ass,,,ummm republicans, they are all out for themselves. every single one of them.

the message is always the same from both parties, what they are going to do, and who they are going to do it for, but in the end, it seems that big business gets bigger, the people get poorer, and nothing really changes.

We need new faces, we need people that can and will carry our wishes to congress and the Presidential administration.

Some good choices can be seen right here on DU. Some good choices can be found at the local super market putting your purchases in a bag and saying have a good day.
Normal everyday people.
Normal everyday people that struggle to pay that bill, that know what it is to cringe when the phone rings because it just might be a collector trying to harass them for the money that they just do not have.
Normal people.

We have to look at why these people dont run, you know that they would be good, and they would be willing, so why don't they run?

Money.
They don't have the money to keep up with the professional politician when it comes to getting their message out. So, nobody outside of their own community will ever know about their ideas.

the answer is to change the way elections are run.
If the news community were forced to give free space and time to the candidates, and no money was allowed to be spent on campaigns, the average person would have a chance at getting his/her message out to the general population. The system is corrupt, and has been for many many years, both parties guilty.

When this country was founded, it was founded by every day people that had big ideas, they just knew that there was a better life to be had, and they sat down and drafted the constitution with great hopes that that life would be recognized by ALL. not just the elite.

Today we have a problem, and that is that we have allowed our government to work not by the people and for the people, but instead, the government looks at the people as their charge.

Change will have to come from the bottom. We must find a way to eliminate the power of money from the political arena.

Until then? just look for more of the same old crap.

[BlooInBloo]

1. Right.... because Democrats would torture too! Stupidity.

EDIT: Typo.

[eggbeater]

9. Its not just about torture

Its about the whole American Lifestyle, its about how we treat people in and out of our country.

as far as would the Democrats handle things the same way? I dont know.
I would hope not, but I really at this point just do not have a clue.

[BlooInBloo]

27. You said "it makes no difference" - that's idiotic...

... unless you don't care about torture.

There are other examples as well, but one suffices to exibit the sheer stupidity of an "it makes no difference" thoughtless opinion.

[lonestarnot]

30. Lighten up! Damn!

[lonestarnot]

2. Hey Eggbeater! Been thinking about you! How are you doing?

Now I will read your post. :hug:

[eggbeater]

8. Great to have your thoughts

They mean alot.

I have been reduced to a keyboard activist. LOL

Im afraid that I wont be the one bringing any change, but I have faith in all of you here to do it for my family.

[lonestarnot]

29. I will fight for you! I will fight for your family! I will fight twice

as hard! I give you my word! :hug:

[MannyGoldstein]

3. But, But, But, ... Big Dawg Was The Greatest!!! I Want To Have His Baby!!

Until we stop voting for people who run on an "I Suck - But Less Than The Other Guy" platform, we're hosed.

Publicly-funded elections would also be great.

[lonestarnot]

5. Woodamn whoo! Crack me up! And so true! Love that Big Dawg!

[lonestarnot]

4. Public campaign financing 100% across the board is part of the

answer.

[Nutmegger]

6. When we get big money out of our elections

then things will be better. I agree. :)

[queenbdem87]

7. That is a cop out!

I agree on how we need to change things, but you can't just say all politicians are crap. There are some genuinely good politicians in Washington, albeit not many. Also, its a logical fallacy because, if the statement "all politicians are crap" were true, then even the new reform politicians we elect would be crap. People say things like that because it prevents them from actually having to do the diffcult job of becoming learned in politics. It is shameful that someone on this site would do it because I would like to assume that most people on here are well-informed and interested and therefore willing to look deeper than these anti-political generalizations that come from and promote apathy in politics.

[eggbeater]

12. perhaps you are correct.

I will look deeper and ponder this angle.

but for right now, I really dont see any real change coming until we can allow the poor SOB working driving a cab have a chance to run.

the people can not regain their country until the people can have an equal chance at being elected to higher office.

[Redstone]

10. I'll admit it. Every single one of them. If they were worth anything,

they'd have jobs.

Redstone

[Truthiness Inspector]

32. LOL

I know what you mean. I wouldn't put every politician in that category but the schmoozing, gladhanding, and not wanting to step on toes has got to stop.

[bullimiami]

11. because they arent. I judge each person on what they do and have done.

some people are very good, some are relatively good and some really suck ass.

bush has forced the lines to be drawn disctincly so if there is an (R) by their name they are supporters of heinous shit and therefore they are shit by association.

[skipos]

13. What is with all of the "no use voting for Democrats" threads lately?

I realize that what you are saying is more detailed than that, and you have a right to say whatever DU permits, but yeesh. Is this always the way it is before elections around here?

[eggbeater]

14. You missunderstand me

Im not saying dont vote for democrats.
By all means, the TRUE democratic values are what we need.

what Im saying is that by the time democrats gain the money needed to run, they seem to have lost a portion of their values.
If it cost nothing to run, then we might just get back to some democratic choices that have not lost their core value.

does that make any sense?

[VOX]

15. Uh, this is *Democratic* Underground -- not any other Underground...

Read and heed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

Who We Are: Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office.

[acmejack]

21. Chill out!

The poster said they would vote democratic, can't we stop demanding this fucking blind statement of obedience? Folks don't need to be rushing to throw this in anyone's face who doesn't toe the party line closely enough because they may not kiss every Democratic politician's butt. I think we have been let down lately & if you don't see that well, you might have a vision issue.

For Christ's sake, can't anyone express any dissent at all around here? Or is that simply too much to tolerate at all? The Democrats had a rich tradition, or did at one time of welcoming discussion and dissenting voices, but perhaps that was before all the high minded folks that have been winning all these elections started showing us the way.

[lonestarnot]

31. Hi! AJ!

:hi:

[VOX]

33. Hey, it's lonestarnot!!!

:thumbsup: :patriot:

[lonestarnot]

34. Hi!

:hi: :P :+

[VOX]

39. Yo!!!

:toast:

[VOX]

38. Yes, we need change. Change in candidates, change in the system...

And those are worthy goals to discuss and to shoot for. And yes, we have been let down by our candidates, I cannot deny that fact.

But at the moment, IMO, the #1 priority should be to break up the one-party rule that's just screwing everybody. While some opposition candidates (Democratic, of course) may be lacking in many areas, getting them elected would be a start, a simple beginning step in bailing out the sinking ship of state.


Peace -- :thumbsup:

On edit: typos

[SammyWinstonJack]

16. I don't believe that all politicians are crap.

:shrug: No difference between Democrats and republiCONS? Where have I heard that before? :eyes: Believe what you want, just don't ask everyone else to agree with you, especially on a democratic forum.

[pat_k]

17. Electoral politics is not the be all end all. . .

Sure. We can -- and must -- vote them out and find and run strong and principled candidates, but perhaps more important is connecting with each other, and creating associations through which we can ever more effectively exert influence. Even when idiots occupy the offices of Congress, we can shape the context, inject reality into the noise machine, and push them into action.

As discouraging as it often is, we have had some BIG wins. We are forward looking creatures. We often lose track of how far we've come, but if you picked me up on this date in 2003 and plopped me down today, I would be thrilled to witness the transformation.

Here's something I posted some time ago on this topic. (Bottom line: It's ultimately about Us, not Them):

The problem is the massive disconnect between insiders vs. outsiders. Only a tiny fraction are "insiders." The vast majority of us are "outsiders" -- outsiders ARE the mainstream.

The labels -- liberal, conservative, progressive, right, left -- have become so loaded they have lost all objective meaning.

We are not even dealing with a divide between left v. right positions on "issues."

We are dealing with fascists v. anti-fascists; insiders v. outsiders; weakness v. strength.

Insiders v. Outsiders

You may be too young to remember, but not very long ago, politics wasn't viewed as the exclusive purview of the "professionals." Countless communities had vital Democratic Clubs and other associations where Americans experienced "politics" first hand. It wasn't always pretty, but people socialized, chose leaders, made decisions, and took civic action.

Over the years, people have been pushed out of their own game. These days, the "professionals" run the show and they are VERY protective of their turf.

For the Al Froms of the world, we are game pieces that they -- the "professionals" -- manipulate. Heaven forbid any of us actually get involved! They may not even know WHY they feel so threatened when folks like Dean or Hackett inspire citizens to act, but their fear has absolutely nothing to do with the candidate's' positions on issues.

Weakness v. Strength

The BIGGEST problem members of the Democratic Party face is the perception that they are weak and unprincipled. We are as pissed off as we are because, instead of fulfilling their Congressional oath, and challenging their wimpy image, by standing up and demanding Impeachment, they are adding salt to the wound by "laying low" or appeasing the fascists by assuring them they have no intention of Impeaching Bush and Cheney.

But the beliefs that underlie their rationalizations have been hammered into them by those around them. Countless actions are unthinkable in their world, for reasons they don't even understand.

It's About Us -- Not the Party. Not our Leaders.

The bottom line is that the insiders are protecting their turf from us. They live in a world of Republican propaganda. Their fear of "backlash" has little to do with public reaction -- what they really fear being ostracized from the DC social scene.

WE are the REAL danger to their insular world. We are everywhere. We can insert some reality and prompt them to take action that will get them frowned on at Sally Quinn's next event.

But, we can also reward them -- like we rewarded Barbara Boxer for standing up on January 6th with a surge of support, dollars, and respect.

Our immediate goals are clear: Impeach Bush and Cheney and reject the results of suspect elections. Actions large and small will make these goals a reality. As we move forward, we need to remember that, however they fail or anger us, we can't let it just be about them. Ultimately, it is about figuring out how to use our power to see that our will is done.

[BootinUp]

18. Actually I prefer not to broadbrush people like that

I can totally agree with you that big money influences our politicians in very unhealthy ways (unhealthy for the country). But once you stop trying to see who the good guys are and who the bad guys are, you have given up basically. Other people I know that talk about politics that way don't even bother to vote anymore. THey rant and rave but do nothing else.

[Jim Sagle]

19. Hogwash!

[Thickasabrick]

20. Feingold isn't crap - neither is Kucinich. I've got a pretty short

list though.

[wtmusic]

25. Agree. nt

[lonestarnot]

36. Agree X2

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. "Power corrupts.." Politics is corrupting because it endows power.

To discover that politicians are corrupt is like discovering that water is wet.

[MGD]

23. I admit this regulalrly actually eom

[Union Thug]

24. To some degree, I agree. If they are rich, which most of them are, they

are very rarely in a position to understand the working poor and working class in any meaningful way. On top of that, they have their own interests to protect. This is why my primary concerns issues are the economics of the working class and access to education.

[BeHereNow]

26. You'll get no argument from me on that point.

With very few exceptions among the democrat incumbents,
we have no representation.
They need to be replaced by actual democrats who
will uphold their oaths to WE, the people.
BHN

[jwirr]

28. Maybe if you were living on less than $600 a month or had a

severely disabled child or needed school money for your sons/daughters you might understand that Dems are NOT the same as pugs. I have lived in two pug state and now live in a Dem state. There is a world of difference in every aspect of the approach to how they see/treat their fellow humans of all classes. I cannot for the live of me understand how you cannot see it.

[and-justice-for-all]

35. Never trusted politicans...

...But I might as well take my roll of the dice since I have the right to vote. Voting, in essence, is gambling and its always a matter of chance.

[dorktv]

37. As a politician and as someone who works with a lot of D politicians

I take exception to the statement that we are the same as the other side.

The current man running for the House seat in my district was a teacher, his last job was a State Senator where he made $24,000 a year. He was actually picked by the DCCC and he is going to beat JD. He is progressive/moderate.

Janet Napolitano, the governor, won barely with public financing last time but prior to that she had been Attorney General. It paid decently but she is by no means rich. Moderate

Gabby Giffords down in Tucson, former State Senator making the same as my local Congressional candidate, is running for congress in Kolbe's seat. She has raised money up the wazoo and is generally expected to win. Moderate

Raul Grijalva, an amazing progressive, ran against five (or six I think) people in the D primary being outspent by half of them and he won and is now the Representative from CD-7 in Arizona. He was a County Supervisor.
Progressive

[Garbo 2004]

40. I'm not fond of politicians as a general rule but no doubt we wouldn't be

where we are today if Gore had taken the oath of office in January 2001. And I would similarly argue that there also would be a significant difference if we had had a Dem controlled Congress rather than a Republican controlled Congress.

As jaded as I've been in the past about politicians in general regardless of party, the corruption under this Administration and Republican ruled Congress is just staggering in both small and large matters. Congress under this cabal has abrogated its reponsibilities and turned over the government to an Executive run amok, an Executive that does not recognize the rule of law.

And while I honor the founders of the Republic for the Constitution, the system of checks and balances intended to avoid a concentration of power and despotic rule (and btw to also keep direct power out of the hands of the people lest anyone forget), let's also not forget that they largely were among the elite of their time. Not everyone could vote, of course, but how many remember that in some states white adult males were disenfranchised if they weren't property owners? It's easy to get misty-eyed about the founding fathers for their enormous accomplishments, especially when faced with the government we have today, but a read of the Federalist papers makes it clear that they were not all populists and egalitarians by any means. But they left the tools for us to grow and change and reminded us that eternal vigilance was required against the inclination of those with power to further their own power and interests over those they were sworn to serve.

For all its faults, errors and outrages, and there have been many in our history, the US and its Constitution has been a grand experiment that has inspired many others over the years. We "exported" freedom and democracy by example, our rhetoric and our vision of a better life, a better nation, a better world, through opportunity for all. Over time more civil rights were recognized and expanded to include more and more people. Progress, not regression. Greater liberty for those not previously represented or free to participate fully in society, not repression. Greater opportunities for those previously limited by circumstances of birth, social class, income, race or gender.

Among those classic "Americanisms" in our cultural naiviete perhaps, has been our optimism for the future, a belief in progress and improvement and that old "betterment of mankind" line. And as cynical as we many of us are, we haven't entirely discarded that vision that inspired us and others...we want to live up to the rhetoric, to that vision. But now instead of hope and optimism, we are fed a daily diet of fear and hate, fear of enemies abroad which now our nation's policies and actions help to further create (release the NIE and let us see just how the "WOT" is going under this administration), and hate against "enemies" at home, those who dare speak out, who exercise the right to criticize and judge our own government, a fundamental right the founding fathers established for good reason: a government that cannot bear, tolerate or listen to the judgment of its own people does not deserve to stand.

The current cabal wants to not just turn the clock back but to turn the nation into a banana republic, where the pretense of democracy is paraded for the masses and unchecked power is in the hands of a few. Oligarchy. As bad as I may have thought it was before, the current cabal in power is far worse and dangerous. When some folks say, there's no difference between the parties, well I'd venture to say the last 5 years have shown otherwise. Dems couldn't get away with this shit.

True campaign finance reform has been and will be fought by both Republicans and Dems. Getting the big money out of politics may be well nigh impossible but it's something that has to be worked for. But the Repubs currently in control sure aren't going to do it.

The threat to the Republic IMO is so great that getting Dems, as flawed as they may be, back in control is the priority and we must then hold them accountable. And a restoration of checks and balances. It hasn't been "business as usual" for years and its taken a long time for many Dem pols to realize it IMO as they played the old game but the rules had drastically changed. The Repubs and the interests behind them were playing for absolute power, not a balance of power. They're also gradulally learning IMO that in these times they need the grassroots, not just the big corps and interests to keep them around. Because the big corps and interests also have the other team to play with, co-opting the media and the message. And the Dems as a party perhaps are slowly learning that the grassroots have to have something to get motivated behind a candidate. Not just "I'm not as bad as the other guy." And then once that's done (no small feat of course) the grassroots has to hold them accountable. Be the pain in their butts that just won't go away after election day.

Yes the issues are beyond a matter of partisanship, but right now we've got to deal with the immediate needs. As we've seen from others' history and our own, it takes but little time for the culmulative progress of centuries to be turned around and our essential liberties and rights to be threatened, not by enemies abroad who could never undo our constitutional republic, but by those in power here at home. We can't ever let it be "business as usual" again.