BREAKING NEWS: 100% of lung cancer victims were exposed to automobile

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

exhaust.

For the last 100 years.

Leading us to believe that automobiles are the leading cause of cancer.

STOP DRIVING!

[sir_captain]

1. What is the point of this?

Is it supposed to be funny?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

3. No... it's logic.

Not funny. True.

[sir_captain]

23. I still can't tell if you're being serious or not

Though I suppose it doesn't really matter, does it?

[roguevalley]

26. everyone who breathes car exhaust doesn't die. my dad just died

from cancer started by smoking. I have nothing but contempt for smoking and compassion for smokers. I will however never let one in my house or stand beside one. I LOATHE smoking in the way only someone who has lost a father, a grandfather, two uncles, two aunts and four cousins to cancer from smoking.

[sir_captain]

33. i think you meant to respond to the OP

I agree with you

[roguevalley]

61. sorry. I meant to. Sometimes you think you are right under them when you

post and then you aren't. :spank:

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

38. No.... If you live in this or the last century, you have breathed car

exhaust. And, I promise, you will die.

[pnwmom]

64. If you've lived in any century in any place in the world

you drink water and will die (if you haven't already.)

Doesn't mean that the water killed you, does it?

[AngryOldDem]

79. You promise? Really?

It reminds me of the old joke -- what is the leading cause of death? Life.

Then, there's the song "Cancer," by Joe Jackson: "Everything, gives you cancer. There's no cure, there's no answer, everything gives you cancer."

No one here gets out alive. I thought we all knew that.

[OzarkDem]

59. Not right away

it takes a while, but many people do end up getting sick from it.

[pnwmom]

29. No, it's not logic.

Because 100 % of those who did NOT develop lung cancer also were exposed to car exhaust.

By your type of "logic," that would mean that car exhaust has been shown to protect people against lung cancer.

You need to take a logic class. What you have described is a fallacy, not a logically true statement.

[cherokeeprogressive]

50. By your logic then...

Oxygen is carcinogenic.

Water is carcinogenic.

Vegetables are carcinogenic.

Freakin' BEEF is carcinogenic, as is baby-food, breast milk, and a cool morning breeze.

Let us not forget dirt, fish, poultry, and gravity.

Good logic.

[pnwmom]

62. LOL! n/t

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

74. I think you're right.

:toast:

[Odin2005]

87. Actually, Oxygen IS carcinogenic.

Breathing is the leading cause of cancer. ;-)

[LanternWaste]

81. I believe that is a Logical Fallacy

I believe that is a Logical Fallacy called a "Spurious Correlation"

[OzarkDem]

58. We need more research on lung cancer

Lots of people get it who never smoked cigarettes. And many who get it didn't smoke before, either.

Imagine all the pioneer folk who lived in cabins and houses with little or no venting for fireplaces, etc. They didn't get cancer, according to ACS. :shrug:

[Show_Me _The_Truth]

73. I'm sure your logic has accounted for the fact

that they were only expected to live into their late 30's or early 40's right?

So again, using your logic, we see that the added pollution in the air actually serves to increase our life-spans.

[LostinVA]

75. He's trying to justify smoking

And that second hand smoke isn't a big deal... thread after thread on this same thing the last few years.

[Spider Jerusalem]

2. ...

http://www.niehs.nih.gov/centers/2002News/news7.htm

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

4. Shhhhh....

That's not what people want to hear!

[Spider Jerusalem]

11. They probably don't want to hear this, either

http://www.niehs.nih.gov/centers/2002News/news6.htm

(the above-linked article mentions automobile exhaust specifically; the earlier one only mentioned coal-fired power plants, factory emissions and diesel exhaust.)

[pinto]

5. Well, 100% of deaths are related to being born. What's you're point?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

7. Carcinogens, mother*******

[pinto]

15. Ah, that's clearer. I thought you were just making a flip comment.

Thanks.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

43. Who... me?

Never! :toast:

[blonndee]

6. LOL

This is perfect. In my comp classes I'm teaching the "causal argument" unit and we're just getting into logical fallacies and the complexities of arguing causal relationships. Think I might throw this in on Monday as an example.

[lonestarnot]

14. composition classes? or compensation classes?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

17. Personally, I think that would be a good thing.

[Spider Jerusalem]

21. There's plenty of research...

that indicates that atmospheric pollution in the form of automobile exhaust is a significant contributing factor to lung cancer and other respiratory diseases; so it's not entirely fallacious (since a causal relationhip has been determined).

[blonndee]

27. No, but it would be a good example of what seems like

a hasty generalization. If there indeed is statistical evidence, we can also discuss it in terms of correlation. Could lead to a bigger discussion--we'll have to see how it goes. Right now we're still discussing "cause" very generally and the potential for mistaking correlation or precedence for cause, so I can use this as we review on Monday. I'll be sure to mention (in passing, of course ;-) ) that all the focus on secondhand smoke raises questions of causality when it comes to pollution and other factors. I'm trying to get them beyond the linear type of thinking (A causes B causes C, etc) and more into an exploratory type of analysis, and toward being open to tentative conclusions and to questioning "commonly held" causal explanations (good way to bring in newsmedia and propaganda in an indirect and nonpreachy way).

But thanks for that! You're helping me with my lesson plan. :)

[AZCat]

8. Ah, but how do you discount the effect of...

exposure to the notorious DiHydrogen Oxide? Doesn't this pose a far more ominous threat than mere automobiles? Detroit has nothing on the DiHydrogen Oxide industry - their product is worldwide!

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

9. Okay.... I'm not a chemist.

What is it?

[Swede]

10. H2O

Water.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

12. LOL... Yeah.. Guilty of that indulgance as well.

[spacelady]

13. WATER, it can kill you in large quantities. DO NOT overdose. n/t

[AZCat]

16. One of the most dangerous chemicals known to man!

It has been responsible for trillions of dollars of damage to our cities, because the government refuses to properly regulate it. Thousands of people die every year from exposure to this malignancy while our government sits on its hands.

Did you know that you can get DiHydrogen Oxide in a store without a prescription? They'll even sell it to (gasp) children!

[lonestarnot]

18. 8 hydrogens can connect to a chain of 3 carbons.

Just sayin'.

[sir_captain]

25. What does that have to do with anything?

[lonestarnot]

31. About as much as the op has to do with anything.

[sir_captain]

35. Ah, got it

cheers :toast:

[lonestarnot]

41. LOL

cheers :toast: People are being rough on Joad tonight. He meant no harm. lighten up folks for shit sakes.

[AZCat]

34. And when combusted, it produces DHO as a byproduct!

DiHydrogen Oxide (DHO) is one of the products of combustion from the alkane you mention and IMHO should be regulated - think of the children!

[lonestarnot]

44. Yes, so I'm supposed to ride my bike 40 miles per day? Not.

I'm too old!

[AZCat]

49. Riding your bike...

risks exposure to DHO emissions. Some areas are so saturated with this that you probably shouldn't leave the house. Seattle, for example, has massive amounts of DHO pollution every year. Here in southern Arizona it is only bad for a month or two out of the year.

[lonestarnot]

54. We are all cooked. Civilization is nearing an end by it's own

undoing.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

42. Shit, You're Probably Right! More People Probably Even Die More Per Year

from DiHydrogen Oxide then cigarettes. Wonder what those numbers are?

[Wiley50]

46. I never touch the stuff

fish fornicate in it

[AZCat]

52. You ever seen a commie drink a glass of DHO?

How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

55. ewwww!

wait a minute. alcohol kills germs, right?

I guess I'm ok then. :evilgrin:

[napi21]

19. I hear what you are saying. I also have to tell you that back in the

70's when they switched from regular leaded gas to this NEW unleaded and started putting catalytic converters on cars, I noticed I couldn't stand even near a car that was just idling and not begin to choke. Now, I'm not saying it was GREAT to inhale exhaust from the old cars, but there was a definite difference!

How many of you have ever waited at a popular bus stop on the way home from work and wanted to gag when the old bus pulled away? I HAVE!

How about driving down the road following a truck that was belching black smoke of a poor running diesel? Ever shut your windows, even on a beautiful spring day????

I don't know what causes the most cancer. I don't think anyone does. But exhaust sure isn't a help!

Is it worse than smoking? I don't know. There sure are more vehicles than there are smokers, huh?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

20. Actually, there's good circumstantial evidence to link auto exhaust

and childhood asthma.

In this country, asthma is most common among children who live along busy highways and rare in rural areas.

It jumps sharply in Third World countries as more people acquire cars. It's soaring in China and India right now.

It's common in Western Europe and uncommon in Eastern Europe.

Some say that exposure to animals confers immunity, but city children in the Third World aren't necessarily exposed to animals.

Some say that excessive cleanliness causes asthma, but no one ever accused China and India of excessive cleanliness.

Some say that rising asthma rates in the Third World are a matter of better diagnosis, but there's been no change in the training given to doctors.

Some say that air pollution per se causes asthma, but Eastern Europe has notoriously bad pollution.

What it didn't have until recently was a lot of cars.

And I'm speaking as one who had no allergy problems until my family moved from a quiet residential street to the side of a state highway when I was in elementary school.

[napi21]

22. Intreating. Sad that few ever hear about studies like that.

I honestly wonder what the American people would do if they found out that many of the health problems they were having were traced back to the car? Obviously they wouldn't give up their car!

I'd really love to know!

[sir_captain]

24. Big difference between air pollution leading to asthma

which is undoubtedly true (though I'd suggest that the unregulated industry factories in places like China may have just as much of an impact than car pollution) and suggesting that car exhaust is the leading cause of lung cancer. I suppose big tobacco would probably like it, though.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

32. Oh, I wasn't agreeing with the OP at all

n.t

[sir_captain]

36. heh...ok

your point is well taken, as a note. i used to work at a hospital in washington heights in NYC and the levels of asthma there were just ridiculous.

[Lindacooks]

28. Come on, I usually love your posts.

[LeftyMom]

30. Jesus, does nicotine kill the logic centers of the brain?

Posting idiotic arguments in favor of your nasty habit isn't going to make anybody suddenly realize that smoking is neither disgusting nor carcinogenic. Give it up.

[ComerPerro]

39. Its amazing, but some people are really Republican on some issues

[ComerPerro]

37. Jesus Christ, is this gonna be more of that

"I'm better than you cause I don't drive" bullshit I always see on this forum?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

45. I drive like a sonnofabitch...

your point?

[ComerPerro]

47. so you really double down on those carcinogens

[Jcrowley]

40. Cars Kill

3. Cars kill people
During the twentieth century, 250 million Americans were maimed or injured in automobile accidents. Every single day in the U.S., an average of 121 people are killed in car accidents. The leading cause of death for children aged 5 to 14 in New York City is pedestrian automobile accidents.

4. Cars kill animals
Automobiles, SUVs, trucks, and other fossil field-burning vehicles kill a million wild animals per week in the U.S.-not counting tens of thousands of family pets.

5. Sprawling for dollars
During the last century, an area equal to all the arable land in Ohio, Indiana, and Pennsylvania was paved in the U.S. This area requires maintenance costing over $200 million a day. (The surreptitious cost of the car culture totals nearly $464 billion a year in the U.S. alone, much of that going to the sustentation of a military presence in the Persian Gulf.)

6. Getting warmer?
Automobiles emit one-quarter of U.S. greenhouse gases.

7. Oil in our veins
The U.S. spends $60 billion per year on foreign oil. Eight million barrels of oil per day is combusted in U.S. cars. That’s 450 gallons per person per year.

8. They’re all wasted
Cars create 7 billion pounds of un-recycled scrap and waste annually.

http://www.selvesandothers.org/article15214.html

So do cigs. Good luck with that.

[Swede]

48. The life insurance industry doubles your premiums if you smoke.

They don't care if you live in LA or Alaska.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

51. Because they can.

[Zynx]

53. 100% of all people who die are born.

Big whoop.

There is no denying cigarette smoke increases lung cancer. This is on the same level as Holocaust deniers.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

56. People die...

Equating this to the holocaust is stupid. Me: in my 50's. Grandpa (that is dead) in his 90's.

It's genetics, Some people are so fucking weak that they are an invitation to cancers.

Darwin, Mother******!

[lonestarnot]

57. And 100% of all people who are born die.

[Stardust]

60. You need a nap, TYJ.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

63. Awww, not yet, my freind!

The dirt ain't calling yet!

[wyldwolf]

65. you're not trying to deny smoking causes cancer, are you?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

66. I would never "rry" that!!

[wyldwolf]

67. oh, a spelling nazi.

A pointless post and a spelling lesson from you - all in one day.

[unblock]

68. technically, that would make him a typo nazi, not a spelling nazi

unless you actually THOUGHT "rry" was correct.

and this post would make me a nazi of some sort as well....

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

69. LOL... I bow to your superior posting acumenn...

Damn, you got me!

[patricia92243]

70. what about the years before the automobile were invented? People have die

died of cancer since forever.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

71. That's true, you *****, but we need villians! n/t

[1932]

72. A doctor once told me that nobody who gets lung cancer

has not smoked or lived in a home with a smoker, except in very rare situations, like living in a home with very high radon levels, but it's often the case that they have both radon and cigarette exposure.

And, clearly, a lot of people exposed to car exhaust do not get lung cancer.

[LostinVA]

76. Quit the logic -- wtf is wrong with you???

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

77. Okay... Now I have told you that people wha have looked at daisies

have gotten high blood pressure.

Happy?

[Spider Jerusalem]

90. 'A doctor told you once'...

that's nice. However, there's quite a bit of research that indicates that automobile exhaust, diesel exhaust, factory emissions and pollution from coal-fired power plants are significant contributing factors to lung cancer (and emphysema and childhood asthma, too). It might help to know a little more about what you're talking about than just 'some guy told me once'.

[Toots]

78. Still bragging about your stupidity I see

:shrug:

[sweetheart]

80. There is a link between the athsma increase...

and parents/grandparents smoking, maybe that's because of smog as well, but
i'm dubious, the smoking theory seems likely.

[rman]

82. 100% of lung cancer victims were exposed to water

logic?

[Lisa0825]

83. Both my parents died from smoking....

and had torturous quality of life in their last years. I resent you for making a joke of it.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

84. I'm not making a joke out of it.

And I resent your insinuating that.

I have had people in my family die of environmental issues.

[Lisa0825]

85. You are being flip, sarcastic, and dismissive.

There are volumes of scientific studies proving the direct corrolation between smoking and several diseases. You act like a repuglican, denying good science. Do you believe in ID too?

[LaurenG]

86. It takes nothing

but a silly statement for tightly wound people to explode their own heads. Everything is so gd serious now a days that no joke will be taken that way until the holy crap has been beaten out of you. Geez louise.

[Kablooie]

88. 100% who never contracted lung cancer were exposed to automobile exhaust

[Jack Rabbit]

89. That sounds like something Philip Morrs would bring up

Of course, Lee Raymond at Exxon used the some reasoning making arguments about global warming for many years.

ON EDIT

Please click here.

[Spider Jerusalem]

91. Please click HERE:

http://www.niehs.nih.gov/centers/2002News/news6.htm

After factoring in such known risk factors as cigarette smoking, bad diet, obesity, and occupational exposure to toxins, researchers found that air pollution significantly increased risk of death from lung cancer and heart disease.

"The increased risk of lung cancer and heart disease from air pollution was clearly far less than the risks associated with active cigarette smoking," says Pope. "However, we found that the risk of dying from lung cancer as well as heart disease in the most polluted cities was comparable to the risk associated with nonsmokers being exposed to second-hand smoke over a long period of time."

[Jack Rabbit]

92. I lived in LA in the late sixties

Tell me about it.

Forest Lawn Cemetary had a grotesque (in its brighter meaning) series of radio ads in those days; the one I remember was a woman talking about how breathing LA air was like smoking two packs of cigarettes a day. "That means my husband smokes three packs a day."

[Irreverend IX]

93. News flash:

Studies show that 100% of people who eat bread will later die. Bread kills! Also, historians have confirmed that Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin all consumed bread throughout their lives. It's highly likely that bread is the root of all evil.