Are we thanking Chavez for the right reason?

[lildreamer316]

Because I wonder.
The fact that someone outside our country, not affilliated with either political party, said in plain terms something many of us on the left have been feeling; is possibly a gift.
BECAUSE:
NOW all those Democrats have got a platform to stand up and show they are "above" that--so that CANNOT Be used against them in a campaign by swiftboaters and the GOP machine. They can argue with neocons who accuse dems of being America-haters and of loving other countries more than this one. He gave them the perfect way to sway anyone who might be waffling because they happened to buy into that particular talking point. He gave them a great opportunity to come out in public defending this country, agreeing with the guy next door who is a repub who dosen't like "them furriners" talking like that about the president, no matter how much he thinks shrub might be off his rocker.
If Dems had come out and wholeheartedly supported what Chavez said, it had the potential to push the perception of the party into dangerous territory in a way. It's something that if used correctly, can be spun into adding more votes in Nov.
Look, I would like everyone to be able to say what they are REALLY thinking. It would be wonderful if it would be ok for all of them to come out and say; ya know, we may not agree with your use of words,(or maybe we do!) but we agree with your sentiment. I would like nothing better than for us all to be able to be honest with each other. But let's face it--this is Politics. Right now, with what has happened and what needs to happen to correct it, as a candidate you gotta do what you gotta do. It's less than 2 months to the election; we don't have time to play anymore. Hopefully things will move in a more honest direction after we succeed in getting dems back into power.
Aaron Sorkin would have a field day with this plot twist.
Maybe we should start thinking like that--nothing else has worked. I personally think any campaign worth it's salt in the next year should hire Aaron and his writing team. Just IMHO.

(ok...where is my flame suit???probably wherever those damn WMDs are.):hide:

[knowbody0]

1. The fact that he said

what most of the world thinks has not been addressed. He was applauded and there was laughter for a great while.

AmeriKa IS the evil emperor, with the biggest guns, Our way or bombs away.

Chavez sits on the 5th largest oil hole on the planet, he is a target for our hungry hungry monsters.

[Poll_Blind]

2. How about just keeping mum and letting the Repukes defend the President?

  Because that's the real option most people were predominately talking about yesterday. Or, at least, getting a jab in at Bush if unable to fight the overwhelming desire to defend him from a joke made at the beginning of an otherwise serious speech.

  I realize that the concept that the outrage yesterday had something to to with "making Chavez an honorary member of the Democratic party" has a rather devine pedigree but it does not make it any less an absurd strawman which exists to indicate the angry participants were shallow, in the least. That is simply not what the outrage was about.

...as a candidate you gotta do what you gotta do

  Well doing what "you gotta do" apparently touches on a difference of opinion because not all the Democrats responded so foolishly. Tom Harken actually responded with some political and ideological forethought and it's a damned shame that that thread isn't at the top of the Greatest page, because in my opinion, it should be. But I only have one vote.

PB

[QuestionAll...]

3. the devil thing was amusing... but what I think is really

important is that Hugo probably got a lot of people reading his entire UN speech (which was very well done) by that trickery - when they may not have been inclined to do so without the hoopla.

also, Chomsky's book recommend is going to open up more rheumy sleeping eyes about what america's definition of freedom and democracy really means.

That is the real value here - education. and passing that re-education onto you friends and family and co-workers....

I think Hugo is including the american people when he speaks about Standing Up against the devil and what he did at the UN could start the ball rolling in a way we could be surprised about.

[lildreamer316]

4. I agree...

That was quite possibly part of Chavez's plan...all of what you said could be part of it. I was focusing on the fallout from the remark and the way the GOP is likely to use it...or not; seeing as how we are so close to the election. If there are some other, more beneficial and longer reaching effects,(and probably more significant); all the better.

I don't have Chomsky's book yet,it's on its' way here from Amazon. I'm excited.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

5. Absolutely 100% Dead On In My Opinion. Great Post.

If the dems had come out in force supporting Chavez we would've been completely fucked come November. Sometimes DU'ers forget that this is politics that we're talking about, and sometimes politicians simply have to act like politicians. Sure, it would be great if we woke up this morning and saw every Dem on tv totally slandering bush and calling him the seed of Satan etc followed by standing ovations from every household in the country. But we've gotta push pause on our delusions sometimes and realize that just isn't thinking in reality. They have to be political in their words and have to tread very carefully right now as we are approaching one of the most important election cycles ever. I'm proud of their response because it showed me that they understand strategy and are keeping their eye on the prize.

We must win back Congress in November, and I'll be damned if I let something as totally petty and foolish as supporting or not supporting Chavez get in the way of that mission.

Very well said LilDreamer. It was a very refreshing point of view.

[lildreamer316]

6. Thanks.

That means a lot coming from you.
Dunno if anyone else is gonna get it,though. Ah, well.
This next two months should sure be fun!!

[1932]

7. If we're not thanking him for raising the issue of neo-liberalism and the

failures of the Washington Consensus economic programs for the developing world (privatize everything/make Wall Street rich) then we're probably not thanking him for the right reason.