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mntleo2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 12:24 PM
Original message
Chavez Comments And Dem's Missed Opps
Edited on Fri Sep-22-06 12:30 PM by mntleo2
As usual, the Democrats let a ripe, and very large opportunity to stand on some truths go by. As usual, they have joined the "outrage" of the neocon in the comments that Ugo Chavez has made. Yes they were outrageous, those comments about Bush being the devil ~ but tell me, have not at least some of we liberal Christians ~ as well as every other liberal activist out there working for justice and peace against everything Bu$h and his minions have done in the world to promote war, starvation and the enriching of themselves from that terrible suffering, not thought the same at times?

We who know about about our faiths' crack-pot ravings from right wingers about the so called "anti-christ". We know these are the ravings of a 19th century preacher who used the mythical apocalypse to foment fear so he could line his pockets with the millions of widows' pennies that "miraculously" turns into riches when combined. We know the very same rhetoric is used today by the religious wing nuts to line their pockets so they can do things like, oh, fly to Africa and use the millions they've gathered from fearful parishioners to invest in gold mines who use children as slave labor. We know that these religious crackpots are the ones whispering instructions, like red-caped devils with pitchforks sitting on the shoulders of this administration

So these same Dems are now lining up like sheep to baaa with those same wing nuts so "surprised" at the vehemence of Chavez. Those Dems should know what we know, since we are the "unwashed masses" and they are part of the "illuminati".

* Instead of saying that this president tried to assassinate Ugo Chavez.

* Instead of speaking out about how the U.S. tried to break the unions of oil workers for this president

* Instead of speaking out about the coup organized by the U.S. righties who think they should get all the profits from the rich oil fields down there, rather than being used to enhance the infrastructure of Venezuela ~ and of the U.S. (see below).

* Instead of speaking out about how the U.S. pinned on a bunch of medals and escorted a rich oil executive as the new president out in front of the microphone. The same kind of wingnut media microphone hogs we have right here in America. Only to find out that the army, loyal to Chavez not this puppet, who do not listen to that media because they know it is all just a bunch of propaganda, sat right below them in the palace basement awaiting orders from Chavez. So slowly the puppet removes the medals one by one and slinks out the back door. Dems can't talk about THAT now can they? Nope, they'd rather be "outraged" at Chavez saying loud what many of us think in our hearts.

* Instead of speaking out about how We The People of VZ stood up and said, "WE are the ones who voted Chavez in, WE will be the ones who decide whether or not to take him out, not YOU!" Bu$h picked just another rich white elitist like all the white-trash rich here are raking in massive profits for themselves, from the war killing thousands of people, and in private for-profit prisons using the minorities and any poor as slave labor. Bu$h used this useless oil executive to take Chavez' place instead of listening to WE The People and, huh how strange ... it didn't work!


* Instead of speaking out about how Chavez, not this administration who are all right wingers, do nothing for the poor (or anyone else but the rich) of this country ~ but Chavez is giving oil to the American poor so they won't freeze this winter, the same people Bu$h ignores. .

* How Chavez is also busy working with Cuba to build desperately needed health care centers for the poor in American inner cities because our horribly broken health care system. Dems as well as Chavez are well aware of the insidious incurable TB that is creeping through the homeless and making its way to the rest of us here. The Dems know about the upswing of AIDS that is rampantly running through the barrios and rural and inner city areas, the untreated diabetes, the slowly growibng untreated cancers and the asthma killing our children, all being ignored ~ they prefer to pretend that Chavez is the outrageous one.

*Instead of speaking out about WHY Ugo Chavez says this president is the devil, they would rather feign "surprise" and "outrage". Any one of the above could be a talking point for the Dem's, but no, they go on TV and the radio and express their outrage at how Chavez is treating their poor, poor, POOR wittle pwesident, instead of saying something like, "Sure Chavez' words are outrageous and yes it is over the top, but I might also call anyone the "devil" who (insert any of the talking points above) that Bu$h Republicans created and allowed ~ or all of the above.

If the Dems only spoke the truth they would have the same disenfranchised 60% poor who voted Ugo Chavez as president as Venezuela had out in the streets and voting booths with them. Rather than pretending a bunch of words instead of true DEEDS is the way to make talking points.

What a royal and disgusting waste time and what a bunch of hot air! GET WITH IT DEMS OR YOU ARE ONLY THE JACKASSES YOU USE AS AN ICON!

Gawd sometimes I want to scream into my pillow, but instead I end up crying into it!

Cat In Seattle <---spittin' mad and frustrated!



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mntleo2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. Kick n/t
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Imperialism Inc. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. It is Hugo not Ugo.
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mntleo2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. IN The Beginning it WAS Ugo, Before His Name was Anglo-ized n/t
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kerry-is-my-prez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. "h's" are not pronounced in spanish.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm having a hard time seeing agreeing with Chavez as a winning strategy
for Dems. I mean going on record as agreeing with Chavez, right before an election they need to kill Repubs on. It would be great if this were a country where they could do that without fear of having their words come back and haunt them, but this is not such a country. Not yet anyway.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I've a hard time seeing disagreeing with him as a winning strategy
This "let's all support Bush" business hasn't worked terribly well for us for the last six years, it seems to me.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Rangel did not say "let's all support Bush."
He said, "Just because we Americans criticize Bush, it doesn't mean we like having foreign guests criticizing Bush." I have no problem with foreigners criticizing Bush, but I'm not like most Americans.

Ask yourself who Chavez's audience was and who Rangel's audience was. They weren't the same audience.
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mntleo2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Agreed In Many Ways, Still...
...alls I am saying is that he is doing many of the things Dems should be promoting. Perhaps talking about that instead of getting on a high horse and crying about what he says is just a waste of time.

Cat
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Rangel and Pelosi spent a LOT less time on Chavez than DU has.
It's we who are getting hung up on him, not them.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. As RFK said, "If not now..when?"
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Which do you want to happen more?
Dems to win control of the House or Senate and begin investigating Bush, or Dems to openly pick Chavez over Bush in a spat between Chavez and Bush? Are you willing to gamble that they can do both if it's possible they have to choose one or the other?
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. I don't believe that it's an either/or situation.
Instead of attacking Chavez, they could have:

Kept their mouths shut.

Agreed with some, disagreed with other, parts of his statement.

Noted the sad state of affairs that exist when a foreign leader gets an ovation from the delegates of the UN.

Instead, they chose to play it "safe" and wave the flag.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Why do they HAVE to have the same opinion about Chavez as DU does?
Why aren't they entitled to their own opinions? Maybe you'd rather they pander to DU Democrats than say what they really think?

Maybe they actually meant what they said. :shrug:
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. God help them if that's their opinion.
Or, God help us.

What is it in Hugo's speech that they disagree with? I rather doubt that they feel any need whatsoever to "pander" to DU. In their eyes, we are "safe", and can be relied to vote for them as the "not as bad" party.

By attacking Chavez, they gave tacit support to Bush.

They are entitled to their opinions...so am I. So is Hugo.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. Which means this is much ado about nothing.
My first thought exactly.
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mntleo2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. A-MEN, Sing It Sista!
...boy aren't you right on the mark, lol! it is what I was trying to say only yours was better.

Cat
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mntleo2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. They Are Proving (Again) They Won't Do Anything Anyway
...imo since they can't even step up to the plate about this little non-issue of a president from a small country who is talking trash about our pResident and got some Repigs here all bent out of shape. All they do is step up to the microphone and gnash their teeth as they always do, instead of either ignoring it or using it to speak truth to power.

It appears little difference to me and yes, I will vote for the Dems, but I am getting pretty cynical in my old age because they are so insulated and so ignorant of what is happening out here ~ and they want to stay that way. and yes, I will vote for them because their sorry old asses (pun intended) are about the only thing I have to vote for, but this is *not* going to shut me up as to what idiots they are to allow the wingnuts access to outrage for some damn point that could be used in a big way.

Oh. And btw. I was saying that Dems could for once speak to the POOR of this country, not just the rich, it was the disenfranchised POOR in VZ who turned the political scene on end because they came out and voted. The 60% like what we have in this country who do not vote at all. Well when Ugo spoke they listened and got out to the polls. It was the standing together of the POOR in that country that changed things because there are more of them and he united them because he spoke to them ~ therefore getting more votes than all the other parties combined.

IMO, if the Dems had any sense they could learn from what Chavez did and take the power they have, which is far more than any other minority party here, and then they might win. But they won't, nobody ever does and so it is back to voting for a bunch of sorry old asses who will shiver in their seats rather than bring impeachment hearings, raise accountablity issues, or kick Republican butt all over the floor for being do nothing money grubbing pigs. Because they let Repigs set the scene and they also have that wonderful DC mentality nothing is real except in thier nice insulated DC enclaves with all those lobbyists and rich who line their pockets rather than bring them votes ~ just not as much money as the Repigs slop up.

That is my point

Cat
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StClone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. For us we see it, not so for the Ignorazzi
The demonetization of Hugo like that of Dems at the Wellstone celebration of life is easy to pull off. Chavez is what? A loose cannon? A Lefty? A Nut? Who has he bombed? Who has he lied to to gain power? Have his elections been plagued with irregularities and the Courts giving him the win? No! Chavez talks and gives fuel to American needy and Bank loans to other South American countries to fend off.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. And in a sane and just America, he would be honored for his charity
But America is not sane and just. Not yet.
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mntleo2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. LOL! Ignorazzi ? Oh I Love That Term!
:rofl:
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
25. The thought of the denouncing of Chavez being tactical did cross my mind.
I believe it was for many. Of course, I'm no telepath so I can never know for sure.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. We're talking about the United States here, after all..
Land of xenophobic ignoramuses you can't afford to overestimate.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
12. Are DUers willifully blind to reality?
How was Cindy Sheehan brought down from unassailable, sympathetic grieving mother to tool of the leftists?

Why by appearing at the Social Forum arm in arm with Hugo Chavez.

You can track both her media coverage and tone change down to that moment.

Winning in 2006 is more important than paying fealty to a leftist icon.

Maybe you like to speak truth to power from out in the cold but I rather be in power to effect some change.





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kerry-is-my-prez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
15. There we go: "Blame the Dems" You're allowing yourself to become a pawn.
This is exactly what the Reps are hoping will happen. Inflame the Dem's base thereby driving down voting turnout.
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mntleo2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. You Damn Betcha I Will!
...and I will keep speaking out as is my right, lol. I am sorry but I do not think the Dems are perfect little angels and I refuse to act like Repig Robots and march with the tune, whether I like it or not.

That is WHY I am a Democrat ~ because I am not a robot, lol

Cat In Seattle
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dazzlerazzle Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
19. socialism threat to capitalism
they are complete opposites as i see it...socialism looks to take care of the poorest and capitialism of course is the opposite...when a country goes socialist, the "portfolio patriots" tend to lose investments. When an oil rich country goes socialist, they can lose bigtime!
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mntleo2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. What About Democratic Socialism?
Like Canada and many European countries? At least their citizens get healthcare, paid time off to tend tio family business, decent vacation time, and they have a decent safety net while still people are able to profit. It works better than what we've got IMO

Cat
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