Farhenheit 9/11 1/2?

[Catherine Vincent]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0433561/

Did you guys know that Moore was working on this?

[babylonsister]

1. I recall he had loads of people out filming the '04 elections;

I wonder if it will be at least partially about how our votes were robbed?
Michael does like to stir it up, and '07 would be a ripe time to let
that rip!

[enid602]

51. elections

Expect some real controversy if Moore attacks Diebold, exit polls and election irregularities. I think he would be the first person in the media to treat it seriously.

[LSparkle]

2. Thank God we have M. Moore since we have NO REAL MEDIA

in this country ...

[iconoclastNYC]

7. Yup

And he gets out the "far left" perspective. And that allows the "middle left" position to be braver, bolder, and closer to the truth. I doubt as many mainstream people would be talking about vote fraud if Moore hadn't included all that stuff about 2000 in his movie.

Michael Moore is a true American hero.

[LSparkle]

9. I'm with you there -- being called a "Michael Moore" is a badge of honor

[iconoclastNYC]

3. Yup i read about it somewhere.

Can't wait! Michael Moore has been smeared because he's a huge threat to the right-wing.

[Imagevision]

4. haven't seen anything but it would be a blessing!!!!!!!!

[iconoclastNYC]

5. F 9/11 - 2007? :(

Sicko - due out in 2006

This film will focus on the American healthcare system, and will look at it through an inspection of the system of mental health care.

[AzDar]

6. No, I didn't but I'm sure glad.I watched FH9/11 over the weekend

on Showtime, and bawled my eyes out throughout.
When I last saw it, it was the first day it came out in the theatres, and my Husband and I left when it was over SO full of certainty that it was the last nail in Shrub's political coffin.
To see it now, knowing all that's transpired, and how much WORSE things have gotten, was almost too much to bear.

[Imagevision]

8. We need a 9-11 look into what happened in the Bush/Kerry election

too much has been merely dismissed because MSM refused to investigate the crime of the century!

[iconoclastNYC]

11. Wouldn't it be great

If Moore was spending his F911 money on PIs to chase down leads for the Democratic Congress to investigate in 2007?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

10. I don't care for his work

particularly because it is so blatantly propaganda. But hey, they have Rush and Sean.

And my theory is somebody has to establish the fringes on both sides.

[iconoclastNYC]

12. How is he fringe?

He inserts oppinion but Rush and Sean are documented liars and hate mongers. There is no valid comparison here.

[LSparkle]

13. Bravo! I agree completely ...

Moore is doing the job the "mainstream" media ISN'T -- letting us know what REALLY happens, not what the defense-contractor-war-profiteering-RNC-butt-kissing networks are telling us is "reality."

[TallahasseeGrannie]

14. Seems like we have a difference of opinion

in the word "fringe." I don't consider lying and hate necessarily part of fringe. Fringe to me is more about ideology and I see Moore as pretty far left. At least as far left as the world pays attention to.

Just my opinion.

But no, I don't see him as parallel to Sean and Rush. Would he be if he had a daily talk show? Interesting concept. But when I've seen him speak he is rather mild mannered.

[iconoclastNYC]

15. It'd be a valid comparison

If he was lieing about things constantly (see Media Matters for Sean and Rush's lies). And it'd be valid if Moore was a hate monger.

Neither of these things are true.

I think it's sloppy to draw comparisons between them just because they are high profile and not in the political center.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

17. Well, let me ask you

who would you choose to establish the fringe on the right? Maybe David Horowitz? I really didn't think hard when I mentioned Rush and Sean...just pulled out extreme RWers our of my head.

[iconoclastNYC]

20. I don't think you should make the comparison.

Why do you want to marginalize him?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

21. Well, that was my point

and the point of a post upthread. I think his views are marginal, or fringe. Obviously you really like his work and that's great, but when you think about where he fits in in the political spectrum (as opposed as where you would like him to fit in) do you really think he is mainstream?

[iconoclastNYC]

24. Mainstream? Are you kidding?

What is mainstream? Corporate media is mainstream. They don't let anything on that hurts the corporate agenda or hurts the Republican party. They take silly things that harm dems like the Dean scream and run it over and over and over again. They have hosts that draw constant comparions between left wing leaders and Osama.

You are obviously eating up the Right wing smears against MM, and that's a shame.

Just because you are not mainstream doesn't make you "fringe". By using this terminology you are joining the right wing in smearing him. If you have a problem with MM state something he's DONE that you disagree with. But don't generalize him and repeat the right wings smears to marganilize him.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

27. I wonder if we took a poll here

on DU how many folks would characterize him as fringe? I know that all my Dem friends do. None of them like his work. I will mention all my Dem friends are women and that might have some bearing..don't really know.

Yes, there are a number of things in his film making I don't care for, but I didn't feel this was the place to air that point for point, but if you want a treatis I can deliver one.

I am not listening to right wing smear. I make my own decisions about politics and political figures, and particularly entertainment figures. You like them and their products or you don't. I don't. So rip me a new one because I have the chutzpah to say I don't like Michael Moore's work? I have no right to an opinion without being told I'm eating up the RW smears?

I have heard him speak in person twice here in FL and found him to be engaging, rather mild-mannered and humorous. But I don't like his work. I believe it has hurt the Democratic cause more than helped it, and I don't think I'm in a minority there.

I also don't see corporate media as mainstream for just that reason. They are corporate, and THAT is not mainstream. But I have to say regarding their hosts that "draw constant comparisons between left wing leaders and Osama" that we do it all the time here as regards to fascism, and Bush the Nazi. That's politics. Nasty and hateful.

[Maru Kitteh]

53. I'm curious about why you don't like his work and characterize his as

"fringe"? I'm rather surprised. I've heard right-wing blowhards and corporate media disk jockeys call him fringe but I've never EVER heard them come up with one even REMOTELY relevant inaccuracy in any of his films. If this is the only man who has the cajones to tell the truth and the usual suspects all hate him for it how is that bad for us?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

60. Really?

You've never heard Dems go off on him? I've read plenty of threads here that have.

I don't hate him. Just don't like his work. I don't like Stanley Kubrick (sp???) either.

The RW is full of all sorts of DVD's that contradict his points. I haven't seen any of them so I can't speak for their accuracy. But I will say that I think he is a spinner par excellance.

Is he good for the party? Time will tell.

Why do I call him fringe? Because I am a moderate Democrat and he is WAY left of me. Just like Clinton is way RIGHT of me. That's what I mean by fringe. Over on the left.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

28. dupe:

[Caoimhe]

16. I see Moore as a genius at exposing hypocrisy

If you've seen Roger & Me, and The Awful Truth. Yes it is in your face type of filmmaking, but he always seems to be on the right side of the confrontations

[TallahasseeGrannie]

18. Yes, I have seen them

I've seen all his work, but I have to be honest that even though there is truth, it strikes me as propaganda filmmaking.

It has obvious value, but if I saw it on the RW I'd call it that, so I have to be honest.

[Caoimhe]

22. How can it be propaganda

if what he is talking about is true? I can see calling it "in your face" or aggressive, but propaganda? That implies non-truthyness

or something like that

[TallahasseeGrannie]

23. No, propaganda is not necessarily untrue.

THAT's where our disagreement lies: over the word propaganda.

I looked on dictionary.com and got this:

"The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause."


So it CAN be lies and I am sure a lot of propaganda is lies, but not necessarily.

[iconoclastNYC]

25. All you have is generalizations

Most of the corporate media is propaganda. Definitely everything on TV. Why don't you focus on that instead of smearing Michael Moore as a non-mainstream fringe propagandist?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

31. Can you identify generalization in your response?

"most of the corporate media is propaganda"
"definitely everything on TV"

Why should I focus on that in a thread about Michael Moore? I don't watch very much MSM. I get most of my news online.

[rman]

41. If what Moore says is true, then how is he extreme?

All he does is speak truth about reality, which happens to be extreme.

[iconoclastNYC]

43. The truth seems extreme

When juxatoposed with false reality which is so artfull cultivated by the corporate media, the RNC, the national security apparatus none of which is ever challenged by the Democrats.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

47. There are different levels of truth

and truth can be manipulated to make it more "powerful" if you will.

I don't think I am in the minority in the Democratic party thinking he is far to the left.

But you also have to remember I am close to 60 and grew up with very different standards. There might be a gender issue as well; don't know.

And yes, right now reality is extreme. On second thought, when hasn't reality been extreme? Humans tend to make it so, and if we don't Mother Nature gives us a hand.

[H2O Man]

45. I agree.

Moore's genius is in communication. He has the ability to communicate the thoughts and values of the working-class, and the common sense that the "elite" can't obtain in a classroom or buy anywhere else.

[FreedomAngel82]

57. And he backs what he says with citations

[DemonFighterLives]

29. Please find what part was propaganda and post it

Most of it was true beyond belief and he never even dug into the conspiracy side. A very important work that will go down in history as being the first bird's eye view into the crime family.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

37. First let me say that I agree with

"a very important work that will go down in history."

And here is my link to one area of controversy:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-040730moore,0,4917361.story?coll=chi-news-hed

[DemonFighterLives]

40. I don't excuse that entirely

but it could be written off to artistic license perhaps and at least it appeared in the paper and people were able to pick up where it was.
Dubby's cousin was behind the change in the votes and reported in on Fox. I think that tells it all- Rove in the white house situation room and fox reporting the bogus info.
I would much rather believe anything Michael Moore did than anything that dubco did. Maybe that is just me.
Did anybody die from this error?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

46. No, no one died

and I really am enjoying this discussion because you are making me think and actually put into words what my problem is with him.

I think I fell he blurs the lines between documentary and fiction. His documentaries are edited in sich a way that they intend to persuade, while in my opinion a documentary just presents the facts. Does he present the facts? I am not sure; that isn't my field. I assume so. I have never accused him of lying, nor said he was a bad person. All I say is I am uncomfortable with his work.

And that's why. He is a brilliant propagandist and sometimes we need that. Whether he has hurt or helped, for example, in the elections...well, I guess perhaps history will tell. I really don't know.

And I guess we've beat this horse dead!

[DemonFighterLives]

48. Thanks for the discussion

I don't think Mr Moore has hurt the party. That is what "they" want us to believe. He is going after the Neocons and that is a good thing.
O8)

[Bridget Burke]

54. I'm a Democratic woman in my 50's.

I don't think Moore is too far left at all. What, specifically, do you find "extreme" about his politics?

Documentaries do NOT just present the facts. They are non-fiction, but their creators often express opinions. The Academy began awarding Oscars to Documentary Features in 1942. Frank Capra won for "Why We Fight." The other 3 winners also exhibited certain prejudices against the Axis Powers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Award_for_Documentary_Feature

Michael Moore makes many people uncomfortable.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

55. Hi, happy to "meet" you

Well, you are making me think. Again. First, I didn't say he's "too far left." I said he is far left and in my first response I put forth that what I called "the fringes" were important because they set the framework. I believe that on both sides.

Your example of war documentaries might be an exception. War documentaries used to, by definition, be propaganda pieces, made to rally the troops and the home front.

There were a few areas in 911 that made me uncomfortable, and it might have been style more than anything else. But parts like the goat book reading I thought were "out there" and so did a lot of my friends. Now, I brought this up once here and heard folks express that in that seven minutes we could have been nuked, etc. I saw it differently, that Bush (whom I truly do NOT like) wanted those kids to have their moment, or seven. His staff was readying the area for his address. If he had jumped up and run away, it would have been a bit odd and we all would probably have made fun at the knee-jerk reaction. So while many, if not most of the things Moore said I agree with, I just feel his style is over the top.

I agree that documentaries by their nature usually end up espousing the maker's viewpoints.

Politically do I have differences with Moore? Well, maybe some. Not as much policies. As I said earlier, I've heard him in person twice..paid to do so. He's a good speaker. But I wasn't wild about some of the things he said in Europe about Americans, since I am one!

One thing I do know, you can keep a thread moving a long time by even hinting you love or hate him.

All together, I think the verdict is out on this fellow's value to the Democratic party. Lots of folks here think he hung the moon, and that's fine with me. Not like he's running for office. I always see all his works because I like to talk about them with friends. He does make you think; I'm not sure he is always "fair."

And yeah, I know that life isn't fair, and either is the GOP..but I try to be so that's important to me.

[mandyky]

49. Did you actually see Fahrenheit 911?

Most of it was newsclips and interviews with Congress people and people who had lost sons and daughters in the war. What parts did you consider propoganda?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

61. If you are talking to me, I own the DVD

and you need to understand that propaganda does not mean lies.

Interesting concept, propaganda. We all love it when it's on our side. When it isn't, it's all lies.

[Imagevision]

19. We need vote scam to be revealed as bad as the lead up to war in Iraq

[Imagevision]

26. You could watch 9-11 with no sound and draw a conclusion

[leeroysphitz]

30. i hope that is just a working title.... n/t

[DanCa]

32. Is he still doing a Hurricane Katrina film?

I was just wondering if there's any updates on this.

[bettyellen]

38. that was a false rumour based on a parody site, Spike Lee is working on

a Katrina film however. (i believe that will be a documentary)

[DanCa]

39. Thank you. I heard about the Spike Lee film.

[Notafraid2]

33. I don't get

How Someone who is about a living wage and fair elections is so demonized,with all the horrible people in the world this is the person the right focus on.I would just have to say to lurking freepers that if your against a living wage,fair elections and justice then maybe you are the ones who are evil. Please stop being chickens supporting col.sanders.

[DemonFighterLives]

34. Welcome to DU!

Freepers love to hate Michael. I guess he interferes with their denial.

[Caoimhe]

35. He puts it in black and white, he's great at editting

and so it is easy for them to understand. They can't just say "oh that's too intellectual" because it isn't. It's right there in their face and they just don't happen to like how it makes their fearless leaders look.

[DemonFighterLives]

42. At the time I wrote a little review of F911 for another site

All the freeper types could do was pull out Christopher Hitchens BS to attempt to portray the movie as all lies. I think Michael still keeps track of any potential errors and there have been no law suits.

[newyawker99]

50. Hi notafraid2!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[AllieB]

36. Check out the freeper comments on IMDB

They're freaking out a year before the movie actually comes out!

[mandyky]

44. Heard it mentioned but his next project

is on the Healthcare industry in the US.

I think I heard it referred to as Farhenheit 9/11.5

[donheld]

52. Praise be for Mr Moore

We need more like him.

[FreedomAngel82]

56. I've heard rumors

I hope it's true.

[Javaman]

58. Watch the DVD's by Alex Jones....

If you really want a complete story, instead of the gloss over that Moore does with his movies.

[Catherine Vincent]

59. I just realized I spelled fahrenheit wrong

Sorry :)