I don't know if everyone really sees what Chavez did

[EarthNeedsHope]

This UN meeting was supposed to be a redux of what Bush did with Iraq. He was supposed to make his clearcut case for going to attack Iran and to get the momentum going behind that. Ahmedinijad's rebuttal was supposed to be crazy and insane, and everyone was supposed to back Bush.

Iran's President acted with restraint, and then Chavez came out swinging. All the government and media attention swung to Chavez instantly.

Everyone stopped giving a damn about the war with Iran and whatnot. Bush's momentum failed. Chavez killed it.


I'm sure both Mahmoud and Hugo are laughing at this. And all of us who don't want war, we should be too.

[BurtWorm]

1. One problem with that theory:

Iraq amply demonstrated that if the Bushists want war, they'll have war, with or preferably without the UN's approval and participation.

PS: Welcome to DU. :toast:

[notadmblnd]

2. ?

did you mean Iran? If there's a war with Iran, it's not because Iran wants it. It's because bush does.

On edit: and yes, I would expect them to fight back.

[mmonk]

5. I think he killed any serious thought

that the US has any credibility about the situation or US intentions in their speeches.

[liberalmike27]

11. I think they both

just expressed what 90% of the world thinks. About 90% of the population of the world has viewed as as Amidinejad described since we attacked Iraq, at least, perhaps many of them before.

World opinion of the US is just one thing we don't hear much polling on in the media. The corporations wouldn't want us to know that the world actually disapproves of our government's actions.

[Atman]

18. Remember, there was APPLAUSE and laughter at Chavez' remarks

The CIA Media Center has been putting out the message the the UN was horrified and that everyone is shocked at the way Hugo disrespected the US...but the tape tells a different story. The tapes shows nothing short of a smack-down.

[BurtWorm]

6. I don't understand your question. Did you mean that question for me?

My point is that Bush doesn't care if the UN is with him or not, so anything going on at the UN has zero effect on his momentum for war (if he really wants war in Iran). The evidence for that is what happened with Iraq.

In other words, I was saying pretty much what you said: "If there's a war with Iran, it's not because Iran wants it. It's because bush does."

[notadmblnd]

16. I was confused and misread your statement

all this talk about sending half the navy to the gulf in preparation for war with Iran has thinking only on one track today. Just ignore the stupid redhead mumbling in the corner...Guess I get more coffee now.

[Warren Stupidity]

10. No the OP meant Iraq.

The bushistas dont actually care much what the UN thinks. They will have their war with Iran regardless of the international community, as the history of our Iraq war clearly demonstrates.

[EarthNeedsHope]

4. I understand that but the point I was making was

The biggest target of Bush's speech wasn't the UN but the US. But now all our attention is focused not on Iran but on whether Chavez called bush the devil or not. It's hilarious.

[BurtWorm]

7. Except that he doesn't care what the US thinks either.

And he made that abundantly clear with his behavior in the Iraq war as well, when he referred to the vocal opposition as a "focus group."

[ClassWarrior]

3. Interesting thought. I don't know if it was as calculated...

...as you suggest (i.e., "I'm sure both Mahmoud and Hugo are laughing at this"), but what you say is what Hugo, in effect, did. Or what the RW did to themselves by getting in a tizzy over "the commie."

Excellent analysis.

NGU.

[Jawja]

8. Not only did the RW

get in a tizzy, but some Democrats as well (Rangel, Clinton).

[ClassWarrior]

19. Hmmm... you make them sound kinda shrewd...

:evilgrin:

NGU.

[Ian David]

9. What the UN needs to do is to "isolate" America

As a group, they need to withdraw all their ambassadors from America, all at once.

It's an intervention.

[bridgit]

12. sorry, what the bfee & the cheney admin have done to america...

and the world beyond is no laughing matter; and anyone that doesn't understand the brittle, tenuous nature of an election cycle rapidly approaching; willing to further surrender that election to a bombastic buffoon such as Chavez has little to laugh about themselves when the sulfur Chavez is smelling is likely permeating from the crude oil/petro dollars in his own wallet...collusion comes to mind instead

[TallahasseeGrannie]

20. What she said

[Vidar]

13. Great observation.

[warrens]

14. Making the dictatortot a laughingstock is not a bad strategy

Hate mixed with contempt is a good way to look at this piece of shit. The Dems have to act all huffy, but secretly, they're pleased too. I think Hugo could have said it better but the net effect is probably positive.

As for Bush responding, he tried to have Hugo KILLED and we backed a coup against him. The Smirking Sociopath has no cause for complaint.

[Finder]

15. Hugo also took the label "godless commie" from the RW tirades...

about him which I think was brilliant.

[htuttle]

17. I think Chavez was speaking to the rest of the world -- not to us

Fact is, I think it's pretty clear that no matter what it is that the US does, the American people are pretty much irrelevant in the calculation now. While some of us might fume about 'Chavez is making liberals look bad', he knows that it really doesn't matter what sort of 'image' we on the "US Left" have at this point -- we're powerless, and unable to make much of a difference (and by and large, unwilling to make more of an effort that we already have). I mean, outside the US, who really cares about Nancy Pelosi's or Charlie Rangel's position or standing on any given issue anymore -- when was the last time anything they did actually changed our nation's actions overseas? Not for the last 6 years, anyway.

He was speaking to the rest of the planet outside the US. They still matter. Until we show that we are willing to put down the Twinkies and put our asses on the line (if even for something as minor as a misdemeanor ticket for blocking traffic or disturbing the peace), I don't think the opinions of regular US citizens (on either side of the aisle) are of much concern anymore outside our borders. Remember, nobody used to care what the average Soviet citizen thought, either.

Bush didn't have a hope in hell of convicing anyone to 'follow him' at the UN anyway. His whole spiel was for the benefit of the US domestic audience (ie., "See? I tried to work with the UN..."), just like it was with Iraq. Since everybody knows that Bush will attack who he wants to outside the law anyway, his speechifying was largely an empty gesture.