Did Ronald Reagan Suffer Enough?

[IdaBriggs]

I've posted on this topic before, but I'm dealing with it again this week, so I'm going to share. If you can't handle people feeling "anger" then stop reading now, because I'm not interested in a lecture about how much better you handle problems than I do, nor am I interested in a sanctimonious self-righteous little speech about "letting go" of anger/rage/bitterness/fury until I'm done dealing with it. Maybe shoving it down into a little box that you can ignore works for you, but I'm a "take it out and look at it first" person, and I'm looking HARD.

You see, I am TEN WEEKS pregnant with TWINS!!! Oh, happiness! Oh, joy! My husband and I have been trying for children for EIGHT YEARS, and because I have a rare birth defect (that only interferes with my ability to conceive, but not carry), it has been a LONG journey. I've been pregnant three times before, and miscarried all of them due to poor embryo quality; I cannot tell you how many tears I've cried over those losses, and the strength it required to "try again" when my heart was breaking and part of me just wanted to die for grief....

But those times are over, right? I've been blessed with TWINS! Yeah! And I am happy and joyful --

And so unbelievably PISSED OFF I can barely speak of it.

You see, the things people don't like to "remember" because they aren't really "important" have been impacting my life for the last EIGHT YEARS. While history can be a dull subject, let me remind you of it:

The first baby conceived using In Vitro Fertilization technology was born in England in 1978. Then Ronald Reagan decided a few years later that he didn't want INFERTILITY RESEARCH being done in the United States because "it was too much like people playing God," so the National Institute of Health and anybody who received federal monies from the government (like Universities, etc.) were not ALLOWED to use those funds on things like IVF, etc. His successor George H. W. Bush continued the policy, and so we in the United States LOST TWELVE YEARS OF RESEARCH OPPORTUNITIES while the rest of the civilized world continued to advance their science and technology.

Its almost enough to make one laugh -- in the middle ages, birth defects were deemed "proof" that the parents had engaged in sex in "unapproved" positions, or on holy days, and at the later part of the twentieth century, the leader of the "free world" decided that God only put souls in babies who were conceived with "penis in vagina" methods -- except for the sperm donor babies, which had been happening using the equivalent of turkey basters for decades, where God made exceptions for "those people."

Ah, but fast forward to President William J. Clinton, who reversed those decrees within seventy-two hours of being in office, and suddenly, IVF in the United States went from costing $60,000 a try with small chance of success to today's $6,000 with a positive outcomes ranging from 60-95%, depending on the clinic you go to.

My mother talked with me about this recently, when I explained the problem I am having with my Anger. She said that the people who supported Reagan and his policies really didn't understand what they were saying -- that I shouldn't be a mother -- because it wasn't PERSONAL to them, so I shouldn't be ANGRY with them for supporting it.

I explained to her that for me, it WAS personal -- that when Reagan said he thought infertility research was too much like playing God, what he was really saying was that I shouldn't be a Mom -- that I shouldn't experience the joys of pregnancy, or be able to lie in bed with my husband laughing over our child(ren) kicking inside of me, or see his tears when we went through labor together. That the WHACK JOB RELIGION of the ASSHOLES who refused to fund infertility research had cost me EIGHT YEARS of missing motherhood, and now, at 40 years old carrying twins, I am literally risking my life because I am "high risk" and there is no reason on God's green earth that should have happened, because I *SHOULD* have been able to do "twins" at 32 instead.

You see, part of the reason I'm pregnant now is that the embryologists who helped me WERE FROM ENGLAND, and they had actually been TRAINED at a level you don't see here in the United States YET. Oh, we have infertility clinics everywhere, but what you rarely get told is how their stats increase as their embryologists get experience. Eight years ago we had twenty eggs, but only FIVE fertilized, and only two or three made it to a three day transfer (with no pregnancy). This time, we had FIVE eggs, three mature, and all of them fertilized, and now I'm pregnant with TWINS. The difference was THE ENGLISH EMBRYOLOGISTS and their 95% success rate.

So, in the meantime, I must listen to people prattle about "God's will," when I know damn good and well that God had less to do with my pregnancy than the embryologist did -- meaning that God was okay with me being pregnant EIGHT YEARS AGO if the US embryologists had been gifted with the TWELVE YEARS OF EXPERIENCE that the English Embryologists had been able to take for granted.

My babies should be Seven Years Old now, and I cannot tell you how ANGRY I find myself at the folks who blindly support the Short Sightedness that is the Republican Party.

Now, my little problem might not be as big as the fact Reagan cut funding for cancer research (twelve years of cancer research LOST!), or decided that AIDS was God's punishment on the Homosexuals (an entire continent RAVISHED!), but my personal grief, and my personal sorrow are REAL and like I said, ITS PERSONAL.

I was 19 years old when I found out I would need help conceiving my babies, and the Republicans tried to tell me that it meant I should be "barren" -- that I should miss out on one of the most amazing experiences any human being can ever be a part of because their God -- GREED -- thought "tax cuts for the rich" were more important than Babies for Me.

Is he rotting in hell? Was the Alzheimer's punishment enough on earth for the pain he caused me and mine? Was it simply divine justice, because the "infertility research" he stopped led directly to the "stem cell research" that holds such promise for those suffering from Parkinson's, and Alzheimer's, and Multiple Sclerosis?

And lastly, how can I stop myself from screaming at my husband's Right Wing Wacko Relatives who tell me with such condescension that they've been "praying" for me, and are now joyful that their God has answered their prayers, and now we can *all* celebrate my beloved babies? I don't even want them near me or mine -- they supported people who didn't even want my babies to be BORN, and now they want to pretend their ignorance and stupidity didn't matter???

I have told my husband I'll be threatening to name our children "Clinton" and "Chelsea" just to watch their heads explode. And then I told my husband that I am really thinking "Clinton" might be a good name, because without President William Jefferson Clinton, we wouldn't HAVE our babies.

This has been a long post. I'm angry, and yes, I know that I have to keep calm for the babies. (Usually I am, but I'm working through these issues before the holiday season brings his relatives upon me.) When you read about the policies that don't seem relevant because there isn't anything you can do, please remember me. The decisions these ASSHOLES make do actually impact REAL LIVES.

I know they have mine.

[Coexist]

1. My heart is aching for you right now

Please try to concentrate on the joy you have in your life now.

If you have to channel your anger, maybe you can consider using it to fight to make sure that women in this country RETAIN the reproductive (in-vitro included) rights they deserve.

Making sure that your daughters, daughters-in-law and granddaughters have the right to the assistance that was withheld from you might be the best tribute of all.

Best of luck with your new family.

[cali]

2. All I have to say

on this happy occasion is: Congratulations! I hope that you have a wonderful pregnancy and two healthy babies at the end of it. Your anger is yours, and isn't for me to judge it.

[Waya]

3. What Cali said......

...and CONGRATS!

[LynneSin]

4. I feel the same way about Reagan, but for different reasons

I lost my father when I was 14 years old. Part of Social Security that my father and every american paying SS includes survivor benefits for when one parent passes away. My brother and I would each receive a small stipend from the government. Because I was 14, mine was sent to my mother but my brother was 18 and he was to receive them until he was 21. This money was a great help to him with getting through college.

But in 1982, Reagan decided to cut off the benefit to anyone who turned 18 years old but the rule was grandfathered in. So my brother would continue to receive his benefits until he graduate college but when I turned 18 (a month before I graduated hs) my money would be cut off.

One of my first boyfriends, along with countless other seniors to graduate in 1982, scrambled to get themselves into college at the beginning of 1982 BEFORE they graduated high school in order to keep the money coming. So in 1982, community colleges across the country were flooded with seniors who hadn't graduated high school but where there to save their money. Even my mother contimplated having me start college early (I was a sophomore but in gifted programs) but emotionally I was not ready for college.

So this benefit created for us to ensure that families who lost a parent would not suffer was being taken away from us. I know kids who had to forgo college because they no longer had that money available to help with the costs.

So all I can say, as I have said since 1982 - FUCK YOU REAGAN

[ForFuxakes]

5. KAAAA-BOOOM!

"I have told my husband I'll be threatening to name our children "Clinton" and "Chelsea" just to watch their heads explode. And then I told my husband that I am really thinking "Clinton" might be a good name, because without President William Jefferson Clinton, we wouldn't HAVE our babies."

:spray: :rofl:

Good for you and your new family!

[iamjoy]

6. You Go Right Ahead And Be Angry

but not too angry to not to be grateful for the twins. They are a blessing.

I have similar anger - but no blame and no blessing.

I can't have kids - had cancer and had to have a hysterectomy. I get angry every time I hear people talk about marriage is supposed to between a man and a woman to raise children. Does that mean MY marriage isn't good enough?

So, while I can't relate to the lost years of funding - I can relate to the whole it being what God wants or natural order of things, etc. The people promoting this view may not realize it (or may be perfectly aware of it) but that attitude is one of bigotry, intolerance and in some cases - smug condescension.

And, they are doing it again by fighting stem cell research, although ironically, the Reagan family now supports "playing God"

[Warpy]

7. We Buddhists don't have heaven or hell. We have Karma

No, he didn't suffer that much in this life. The humane thing about Alzheimer's is that once you're out of the very early stage, where you keep notes to remind yourself of what to do every day, you're beyond knowing that your mind is gone. He made his family suffer much more than he himself did.

While he was alive, he hurt millions of people, especially women. I would hate to be facing that kind of Karma.

I'm glad you're looking forward to meeting your twins, but every pregnancy over 35 is considered high risk. It's a routine thing, so don't be all that alarmed by the words. If you were healthy enough to conceive, you'll be healthy enough to carry healthy babies to term. The statistics are on your side.

In the meantime, find a way to let go of the rage. It's not good for you or for your children.

[terrya]

8. I am so sorry for what you've dealt with. I agree with you completely.

You touched on the subject of AIDS and Reagan. That fucker couldn't even be bothered with UTTERING the word "AIDS" in public until 1986...5 WHOLE YEARS into the epidemic. Gay men, such as myself, were dying. I lost 2 close friends during that time due to AIDS. Other gay men lost many, many dear friends during that time...because, to Reagan and his asshole, bigoted, hatemongering friends such as Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and Pat Buchanan, those homosexuals were just asking for it. They deserved to die because of who they were. Not until 1986, when it became clear that heterosexuals were susceptible to AIDS, did Reagan finally talk about. 5 whole fucking years.

And as you mentioned...an entire continent is dealing with this horrible epidemic. And due to the shortsightedness of his administration, Ronald Reagan bears responsibility.

For that alone, if there is some sort of karmic justice, I dearly hope that that fucker is rotting in hell.

End of rant.

And I'm terribly sorry for what you've gone through. My best wishes for you and your future children.

[Bridget Burke]

9. Reagan's dead & you're alive. And you're carrying life within you.

Leave the anger in the past.

However, Clinton & Chelsea sound like fine names for the babies. Congratulations!

[Not Me]

10. There are so many reasons to hate Reagan...

as Ida says, interference with in-vitro and family planning, his ignoring AIDS, his rollback of the Carter energy conservation laws and tax credits...I could go on and on.

But I think the single most important reason that I can't stand the man or his 'legacy' is that he instilled in the American people a feeling that we are all in this game for ourselves. Greed is good. Fuck the next guy.
Everything that is good in this country has come from a collective effort that realized we are all in it together, and what happens to the least of us, affects all of us.

Barack Obama, when he addressed the Democratic Convention in 2004 put it eloquently:

"A belief that we are connected as one people. If there’s a child on the south side of Chicago who can’t read, that matters to me, even if it’s not my child. If there’s a senior citizen somewhere who can’t pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it’s not my grandmother. If there’s an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It’s that fundamental belief—I am my brother’s keeper, I am my sisters’ keeper—that makes this country work. It’s what allows us to pursue our individual dreams, yet still come together as a single American family. “E pluribus unum.” Out of many, one."

"Yet even as we speak, there are those who are preparing to divide us, the spin masters and negative ad peddlers who embrace the politics of anything goes. Well, I say to them tonight, there’s not a liberal America and a conservative America—there’s the United States of America. There’s not a black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America; there’s the United States of America. The pundits like to slice-and-dice our country into Red States and Blue States; Red States for Republicans, Blue States for Democrats. But I’ve got news for them, too. We worship an awesome God in the Blue States, and we don’t like federal agents poking around our libraries in the Red States. We coach Little League in the Blue States and have gay friends in the Red States. There are patriots who opposed the war in Iraq and patriots who supported it. We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America..."

[deaniac21]

11. Those hormones can really kick in when you are pregnant!

Hang in there!:hug:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

12. Entirely justified, although I must now go Yoda on you:

"...beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will..."

[newportdadde]

13. Look at it this way, 7 years ago the technology for premies wasn't as good

Hopefully that won't be an issue for you but its another way to look at it.

My wife and I had twins in Feb. She was 27, very health and had trouble carrying them full term. Three times we were in the hospital before they actually came. Once it was serious enough they injected her with lung hormones and the doctor told us later he thought it a 90% chance they babies would come at 32 week.

After five weeks of light activity/bedrest.. not easy with our other son running around just having turned two, our sons were born. Thet came home but ended up back in the hospital for a few days. While there were there I saw a lot of premies, babies born at 30 weeks, modern technology is pretty amazing.

I wish you the best for a health pregnancy remember to eat healthy and listen to your doctor. Twins are challeging to be sure but also a very unique experience. Now if we could just get them to both sleep through the night(teething).

[Strawman]

14. Never been a fan of Dems donning the Reagan mantel

Using Reagan to criticize Republicans. Ron Jr. seems like a good guy but I wasn't buying the rehab job he tried to do for his dad at the 2004 convention and how he was somehow "different" than the current crop of Republicans. He isn't. He was completely ignorant and he sucked. He doesn't get a pass for all that he did wrong because he could play a kind grandfatherly figure on TV in his role as President. The cult of personality around Reagan is truly mass insanity. I think we should contest his elevation to iconic status rather than try to exploit it to get back swing voters or so-called "Reagan Democrats." We should contest the Reagan legacy because it's the right thing to do.

As for the issue of him suffering enough. He suffered. His family suffered. That is a fact. I am fortunate enough to not have been hurt directly by his policies. If I were in your shoes or in Latin America, I might want him to suffer too.

[noonwitch]

15. I don't know how much Reagan suffered, but his family suffered greatly

during his illness. I feel nothing but compassion at this point for both Reagan and his family. I loathed him while he was president (and Nancy, too), but it's hard to hate someone when he is dying a terrible, long death.

I personally don't believe in divine retribution. If Reagan's suffering from alzheimer's disease is somehow divine justice for his "sins" then everyone who suffers disease or misfortune is suffering for the same reason. I'm just not a cold enough person to see things that way.

I hope the best for your pregnancy. Neonatal care has improved to a degree that would amaze most of us over the past 25 years or so, due to medical and scientific breakthroughs. If I were in your shoes, I would just consider the prayers of your husband's right wing relatives as they are offered-thoughts of love and concern for you and yours. But name the kids Clinton and Chelsea, anyways. You have to have fun with your conservative loved ones.

[WePurrsevere]

16. First of all congratulations. :-) Now to the heart of your post... you

have a right to be angry and hopefully venting helped just a bit.

Those of us that have or have lost loved ones to diseases that could have been possibly cured by now if research had been allowed to go forward should all be angry (if it helps keep us motivated) since these "compassionate" CONservatives are still standing in the way of medical research that could improve and save lives.

Reagan's BS and research cut backs hurt many I love as well as myself (I have MS) so I have no love for the man... although as a former family co-caregiver I do have some sympathy for Nancy and his children (it's hell watching someone you love fade away from Alz/Dementia).

[Generic Other]

17. Congrats to you!

And curses on those who stood in your way.

[ms liberty]

18. Congratulations!

You have every right to be angry, and I share your anger at the policies of the Republicultists. You won't get an argument from me on any of your points!

I love the idea of naming the babies Clinton and Chelsea. They're great names, even without the reasons behind them.

When your wacked-out in-laws start congratulating themselves for "their God" answering "their prayers" my suggestion is that you hit them with the facts. Tell them that YOU thank God for President Clinton and his reversing of the policies that withheld funding for research, and YOU thank God for providing us with science, YOU thank God for...fill in the blanks as appropriate. You've got the facts down on this subject! And you can use that same approach and tell them that you thank God for other countries that refuse to be blackmailed by religious extremists into not restricting scientific research on embryonic stem cells (another fill in the blank opportunity).

It would work best if you're "polite" about it, but you can turn their self-righteous sanctimony back in their faces, and perhaps give them some food for thought in the meantime - at least you might be able to plant a seed!

And if they start driving you crazy with their fundie ways - LEAVE! Get away from them! YOU, YOUR HEALTH, AND YOUR BABIES ARE MORE IMPORTANT than fulfilling some stupid holiday traditions and engagements!

Please, keep us in the loop on how you are doing - and let us DU'ers be a support for you!



:hug:

[TallahasseeGrannie]

19. I hear your anger

but remember that it is all relative. All technology is at first rebuked and reviled. So don't waste your anger on Ronald Reagan.

Think of all the nasty things anger does to your body and think good things about the folks you love and the good times to come. This is those little guys' only chance at pure relaxation, so keep it happy!

Good luck to you all. The past is over. The present is all you have, and you are building babies. It doesn't get any better than that.