Is Torture OK? Are we *seriously* debating this?!

[helderheid]

TrueMajority
Tell Your Senators:
America Doesn’t Support Torture


Tell your Senators to block any legislation governing the treatment of detainees that does not follow and improve upon the principles laid out in the Graham-Warner-McCain proposal.

Click here to take action today!
http://action.truemajority.org/campaign/no_torture

Should America really debate when and how torture is acceptable? I don’t think so. I experienced combat in three wars so nobody needs to tell me that "war is hell," but the reason we fight in the first place is supposed to be defending the values and principles which made America great. Those values do not include secret jails, holding prisoners' heads under water, and declaring ourselves exempt from the rules on war crimes. Yet that is exactly what this Administration is trying to legalize right now in the Senate.

Tell your Senators that America doesn’t support torture.

http://action.truemajority.org/campaign/no_torture

I signed on to a letter with two former Joint Chiefs of Staff and three dozen other former military leaders urging the Senate to reject changes to the Geneva Conventions1, and former Secretary of State Colin Powell said the same thing this week2. Declaring ourselves outside the rule of law is not only dangerous for our own troops, it's fundamentally against what America is about.

Over 63,000 TrueMajority members have also spoken out against torture already. Join us in telling Congress anti-torture laws don’t protect terrorists, they protect the very root of morality and democracy.

Vice Admiral Jack Shanahan
USN (Ret.)

1- 40 Retired Admirals and Generals, Military Leaders and Former DOD Officials Urge Congress to Preserve the Geneva Conventions
http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/media/etn/2006/alert/259/

2 - Bush Detainee Plan Adds to World Doubts Of U.S., Powell Says
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/18/AR2006091801414.html

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[Singular73]

1. Thats not what is saddest.

What is saddest is that it may be a winning political strategy to support torture.

It goes way beyond the "debate" aspect of it.

If you told someone 10 years ago that we would be debating this, they would say you were a frothing at the mouth lefty.

10 years from now, when the intering of US citizens for their political beliefs is common, you won't be suprised anymore.

[Roxy66]

2. I cant believe this is even mentioned as a debate in this Country

What the fuck is happening to our Country!!!

[BlooInBloo]

3. What's worse: DUers could give a rat's ass about the psychotic...

... immorality of it...

Instead, they simply argue against it on the grounds that it's not effective....

Boy, it's a good thing it *is* ineffective - otherwise we'd have DUers just plain arguing in favor of it.

I escapes me why we complain about the inhumanity of freepers, when it's running rampant in our own midst. First things first.

Torture is wrong. Torture is beneath a civilized society. Regardless of its efficacy.

[Singular73]

5. I'm suprised at that as well.

Noone comes out and says "Its morally wrong".

Instead, they argue the effectiveness.

I wonder if that's because of the "What if they knew 1,000,000 people would die tomorrow" arguement that the pro-torture lobby strawman's up.

If you have a true moral center, you could answer that question easily.

Yet people run away from it.

[The_Casual_Observer]

4. Apparently the US government is helpless against the seeming

superior abilities of the Jihadis. So much so that they have been terrified to the point where they are so quickly willing to abandon basic principles of human decency that used to be touted as the cornerstone of the "American way of life". It takes so little to peel back the veneer of "civility" doesn't it?

[helderheid]

6. kick.

[clyrc]

7. I'm horrified, too

disgusted and horrified