Pelosi is a fool

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

--whatever your views on Chavez may be.

yesterday, the conservative screaming heads tried to link Chavez's speech to Democrats. By going out of her way to condemn him today (over 24 hours later!), Pelosi legitimized those talking points and prolonged thr rightwing spin. Did this statement of hers deflect criticism? No-it only led to criticsim of her attack on Chavez as being insincere.

This is what happens when you let Rush Limbaugh be your political advisor.

and the same goes for Charlie "FOX News Democrat" Rangel

--
again, love or hate Chavez, this was idiotic strategy and they played right into a GOP trap.

[JeffR]

1. Nailed it!

eom

[Sadie5]

3. I totally agree

The repugs loved it that Rangel and Pelosi joined in their Chavez bashing.

[Disturbed]

8. Yeah, right into the RW manure pile.

Her Hugo Chavez is a thug remark was real bright. :banghead:

[ewoden]

2. I disagree.

As I stated in anotyher string, why do you think that the repubs said nothing in response to Chavez? Because Chavez just proved to the republican body politic that bad guys hate the Republican way, thus more firmly ensconcing them into lock step with the administration. Meanwhile, good people in the Democrat camp wail and moan and call their leaders turncoats for supporting the ideal that Heads of State should not call each other names because that is no way to foster undertanding and an atmosphere of diplomacy! Will these same people then abandon the decomatratic ticket at the polls in November? Who will they then vote for? An independent? Nobody? Either way the Republicans win. Perhaps Chavez is sponsored by Rove?

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

6. and didn't Bush start the name-calling

wasn't Rumsfeld comparing chavez to Hitler just 3 months ago?

[ewoden]

14. Yes and that was reprehensible. . .

I think Democratic leadership has pointed that out quite a few times as well. I do not believe that tit for tat is the way you foster constructive dialogue amond world governments. I want my leaders and the world's leaders to treat each other with respect. As a consequence I will applaud Democats for pointing out to the world that that is what should be expected by all. I will also work my arse off to help ensure that those in our Government who act in the same name calling disrespectfull manner are elected our of office or, God willing, impeached.

[Monkeyman]

11. To add to that Rove is looking to fire up their base

If the Dems would of said or agreed here their base would be all over it. We have to be very smart here .Stay on the issues push Iraq and homeland down their throat

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

17. exactly-dems aren't responsible for what chavez says

it doesn't require a respsponse. reframe the debate. get back on message.

[Webster Green]

13. Why is Chavez a bad guy?

Cuz Pat Robertson, you and other clueless DUers say so?

Not good enough for me.

Hugo Rocks!

The chimp is the devil!

Pelosi is a fool!

[ewoden]

16. Never said Chavez is a bad guy. Red Haring Argument that.

That's sort of like a Republican arguement about why you hate America when you question your leaders isn't it.

[Webster Green]

18. "bad guys hate the Republican way"

OK, I'm missing your point. Who are the bad guys you are talking about.

Sorry for the confusion.

[ewoden]

24. to Xenophobic republicans bad gusy are anybody who isn't part

of things like the coalition of the willing. Anybody who speaks out against the war on terror, any muslim, anybody controlling oil in their autonomous country, etc., etc., and so on and so on. Republican faithful need no real facts, only need spin. Chavez gave them them enough spin to keep the faithful followers agitated, angry, and xenophobic. No response form the republican leadership was needed.

On the other hand,by virtue of the kinds of posts of disgust and outrage on this subject here it appears that some folks are willing to let a demand for diplomatic respect be twisted into a referendum on the milktoast nature of Democratic leadership.

We have fallen for it again.

[Webster Green]

33. I suppose that is all true...

...but Chavez speaks for most of the world when he calls the chimp the devil.

Fuck the goddamn repuke faithful! I've had enough of their shit, and I'm ready to snap.

If the pukes win in Nov., it will be due to another stolen election, and it will be time to resort to other methods of restoring democracy.

Fuck the Devil-Chimp!

Viva Chavez!

[partylessinOhio]

4. Don't forget they are both benefiting from all those Bush tax cuts too.

[Webster Green]

5. I called her and e-mailed her to admonish her for her idiotic statement

Repeating right-wing talking points.

WTF?!

[mmonk]

7. Yep pretty much right. Scared of the name calling.

[AzDar]

9. Charlie Rangel defending 'HIS President'...what are these Dems

THINKING??
Chavez speaks the truth about a man whose misguided policies threaten the entire planet, and is called 'crazy', and a 'thug'.
Nauseating.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

30. I have to agree...

I post regularly at another message board where both democrats and republicans post. The republicans LOVE Charlie Rangel. Between Rangles actions today, and how in the past he brought up the need for a draft, he gives republicans ammunition to say, ‘there's no difference between us, if anything, democrats want a draft’. ...It’s sickening.

[midnight]

32. How about Charlie, and Nancy defending our Consitution?

[napi21]

10. I disagree with that. I think I undersand where they were coming from.

You've heard about a fatherscreaming at his kid for all the terrible things he's done,but that same father will fist fight with some other guy who slams that same kid? It's that phenomonon that says I can say what I want about MY KID, but you have NO right!!!

I honestly think if Charlie and Nancy had NOT said anything, the RW would have pushed the idea that obviously the 'dems all agree with Chavez. Now, I do agree with himon a lot of things. I agree with Abahmadinijad too, but it's something you don't say on a public stage! Is it politics? Of course it is! Butwith 5 weeks to go to the Nov elections, I think they did the right thing.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

15. The GOP would have pushed a negative point anyway

Why try to play the game and let them frame the debate around this non-issue? The Dems arent responsible for Chavez. Now get back to talking about real issues.

[Monkeyman]

19. YEP Iraq and failed policies

[Malikshah]

22. They should be able to couch their terms in a way that the regime

cannot use--

"Chavez' words were unhelpful" -diplomatic and hard to fight against.

But, no, they had to go overboard and run scared (yes-- underpants wetting scared) from the regime.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

26. another example is the durbin apology

rightwing taalk radio demanded one. when he gave it, they attacked it as well. when you let them 'demand' anything, you lose. period.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

12. Ka-ching! In a nutshell!

[Malikshah]

20. Bingo. This is not the first or last time that the Dem Leadership has

danced wildly and then ponied up the cash to the Republican band.

We do have Dems that are willing to go their own way for the American people-- to listen to the people and to reflect their views and to fight for them.

Pelosi and others need to get outside the Beltway a bit more and to fire their handlers.

[oldboy101]

21. Heads of State of Foreign Countries

are not entitled to insult our President no matter how incompetent he may be. That is for US to do! I believe that is the point that Pelosi and Rangle were making.

[RaleighNCDUer]

29. But our leadership can call other heads of state terrorists,

criminals, thugs, Hitler...

If a foreign head of state wants to call Bush the devil, maybe it's because he sees him unleashing hell on other countries, and preparing to do it to more.

Pelosi and Rangel were wrong, wrong, wrong. If they didn't like what he said, they could have said nothing - they didn't have to pile on and create the public perception of support for the chimp.

The most dangerous people in the world today are the cabal that put the chimp in power. They are the terrorists.

[dharmabum65]

23. Why are Democrats such timid buffoons!

What kind of an idiot is Nancy Pelosi?She castigates a man of character and principle like Chavez,and then embraces and defends an evil little twit like Bush,who has done everything he can in order to destroy the Democratic party and to transform America into a police state where he would more than likely have her sent off to the concentration camps with all the rest of us liberal,secular undesirables.The hell with both of them!

[Monkeyman]

25. Because their are more important issues

Don't play into Rove's hands and fire up thier base. Iraq is the issue to win on gee

[unkachuck]

27. she may be a fool....

....but she's our fool carrying us on to victory in November....maybe....

....yes, it's smelling like deja vu all over again....

[gumby]

28. It's the 'Heads I Win, Tails You Loose' game.

Calling Chavez a 'thug' is real 'diplomatic' all right.... NOT!

And Limbaugh was all over Rangel's ass. No matter WHAT any Dem. said, it would/will be the WRONG thing. Limbaugh was complaining that Rangel was on FAUX. He said for Rangel to issue a REAL rebuttal, he (Rangel) must be seen doing it on CNN, MSNBC, ABC, ETC.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

31. I just wish...

...democrats came out and said, ‘Yes, Chavez stepped over the line, but he made some valid points; such as ______________________”. ...Am I wishing for too much???

[Vidar]

34. Yes, she is.

[Disturbed]

35. Have any here ever seen Polosi in an interview?

I have, twice. She is weak and appeasing. She is afraid of the RW. Having her as Speaker of the House would be a big mistake. This time she tried to get ahead of the RW castigation of Hugo Chavez to please the Moderate Dems and Middle America. Maybe she has done that.

Most of us here are liberals &/or left of the DNC and agree with a lot of what Chavez says. The devil remark was actually not helpful to us. It gave the RW more poison to spew at the Left in America. On the other hand, most likely millions of the World that actually heard that remark would probably agree with it to a degree.Maybe not the Bushloni is actually "The Devil" but that he is an evil man.

[Vidar]

40. No, I refuse to watch TV news, but I agree with your assessment.

[zulchzulu]

36. Who cares what Chavez says. That's the frame to use at this point

No matter how much you might agree with Chavez and his speech, the last thing you want to be tagged as is a "Pro-Castro Crony Democrat".

Putting yourself in a situation where you are now on the defensive with freepers calling you a "Socialist", a "Bush-hater" and other obvious ad hominen traps is losing focus on what needs to focused on right now.

Hint: The Repugs desperately WANT to change the subject.

Add that most people did not watch the whole Chavez speech and most people get their news dog food from the Pentagon-approved MSM. They didn't see the speech and 80% of them have no idea where Venezuela is, let alone how it's spelled.

Chavez who? Let's talk about affordable healthcare, the disastrous Iraq War, the crappy economy....

Punt the Chavez issue.

Change the subject BACK to Bush failures.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

37. You, good sir, are smoking crack.

This is pure trivia. Background noise, if you will. And the paranoid, delusional, hypercritical response of DU shows exactly how much of an
echo amplification chamber this place has become.

If you really think the 2006 election is going to be decided in any way by what the population at large thinks of the democrats' links to Chavez, or his comments, I can tell you right now that the great non-cable-news-addicted majority of the US response to this is going to be

"Hugo who?"

Turn off the computer and go outside for a bit.

[bridgit]

38. i disagree, i say Pelosi is savvy; besides...Chavez has enough...

support right here to overcome anything DC dems might think about him http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2184974

[KharmaTrain]

39. Playing Into The Trap Is Publically Embracing Chavez

Can't you see the corporate media just waiting for something to bash Democrats on. Even last week when the Repugnicans were pretending to eat themselves alive, the corporate media was itching for a way to blame and trash Democrats...but we weren't playing. Even that pissed them off.

Chavez has valid points, but there's a time and a place. Playing up to Chavez and making not attacking his words and timing is just what the corporate media and the Repugnicans would love. Hate radio already has Chavez morphed in Saddam Hussein/Fidel Castro/Cindy Sheehan...the corporate media is just one step behind. Making this an issue keeps it both in the hate radio spin cycle and in the corporate media and takes the air away and allows the Repugnicans to create a strawman distortion and take the focus away from their own corruption and ineptitude. They'd love another Wellstone Memorial. Lets not give them a hand this election.

Rangel is a great Democrat that has remained true to core Democratic and Progressive values for longer than many here have been alive. Even when this regime was popular, Rangel called things as he saw them...and usually right in the belly of the beast. This man has a tremendous amount of political smarts and experience...he knows what he's doing and saying...and may have helped defuse this story from becoming a bigger distraction.

Fortunately Chavez hops on the plane and goes home...here's hoping the controversy goes with him. There is a time to deal with the "devil" in this regime. The first step is to get Democrats elected into majority positions where there's subpoena power and an ability to put the brakes on this regime. Then lets see what Mr. Chavez is up to and what he thinks at that time.