Why Chavez's speech caused Bush and DLC'ers so much anguish

[murdoch]

If I had not watched Chavez's speech, and had only been reading Republican (and Democratic!) responses, I would have thought Chavez ran up to the lectern, banged his shoe against the lectern and began screaming Bush was the devil while foaming at the mouth.

But what actually happened is Chavez started his speech by mocking Bush. After he said the Devil had been there he made the sign of the cross and the assembly laughed.

Bush and the Democratic leadership who ran around screeching how Chavez was a "thug" (what does that make Bush?) can order the enlisted men in our armed forces to go off and invade any country they want. They can team up with the AFL-CIO leadership and send money to Chavez's electoral rivals in Venezuela, as they have been doing. They can celebrate the attempted coup in New York Times editorials. Hysteria, fanaticism, military and economic power, all of this is their forte.

But what they can't do is avoid being an object of ridicule. Chavez stood up and said the emperor has no clothes, and indeed, the emperor does have no clothes. That Chavez got the entire UN assembly to laugh at a country Nixon once characterized as a "pitiful giant" is what drives the Democratic (/Republican) leadership crazy. Pelosi, Rangel etc. calling Chavez a thug remind me of Quayle saying "that was uncalled for" after getting shot down in the 1988 VP debates, about a lame a reply as possible.

I haven't seen a left-wing Latin American leader tweak a US president like this since Castro replied to Carter's claims that he held his people prisoner with the Mariel boatlift.

[MrModerate]

1. It's not so much avoiding ridicule . . .

It's just that they can't *handle* it. It's why r'wingers hate the UN so much -- insufficient deference to 'Murrican exceptionalism.

No Chavez wasn't a "thug," he was an asshole, which he proved in his follow-up performance today. He stepped over the bounds that a visiting statesman is supposed to stay within.

Of course, if my "host" had earlier fomented a coup against me, maybe I'd take the opportunity to shit on HIS living room rug, too.

[partylessinOhio]

2. You cannot play fair with the Devil - you get him where he lives.

Chavez got the insane selected Neocon's dream as slick as the stingray got Steve Irwin. * didn't know what hit him. Someone had to do it. Too bad nobody I've seen had the balls to do it years ago.

All those dead soldiers, all those dead Iraqis and Afghans, all those dead bodies in NOLA, all those prisoners stacked like toy blocks in Abu Ghraib -

and not one person could say, "You are the Devil."

[Patchuli]

6. I agree, only the Devil

could do these horrid things without a thought or conscience or care. I'm not a Chavez groupie but I'm glad there are some in this world who will call it like it is. * is NO better than Bin Laden or Saddam, and probably worse because he is more dishonest.

[emcguffie]

7. Yes. Civilian deaths in Iraq averaged 100 per day the last

two months. That's approximately 3,000 a month. More than 9/11 per month. Month after month.

The two things are not comparable. What whoever did it did to us on 9/11, and what the neocons are doing to Iraq are just not comparable.

They couldn't get away with it as well as they do if they didn't have such complete control of the media. Which makes me worry about the internet. I don't think it will be long before they take it over as well. Gee, they must shut free speech down somehow, mustn't they? Or they could conceivably lose control, if too many people talk too much about all those dead Iraqis, and if too many people notice how many more dead innocents keep piling up each and every day. Because -- why? Because we are in danger, over here, right? They're not in danger over there, are they? No. Not a bit. Let's keep this straight. We're not any kind of a threat. They are. We need to be protected. From them. And that's why a hundred of them are dying every day.

Nothing like the consistency of pure logic for comfort and reassurance. Ah, yes. All's right with the world, and we can rest easily at night knowing how well we are cared for...

I guess they are right, after all. They are carefully making up reality the way they want it to be, and we are just silly worry warts to think we prefer real reality. Truly, we are fortunate, and should give thanks. :hurts:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

35. China doesn't shut down the Internet, but it blocks a lot of sites

That's probably what the neocons would do if they could, label certain sites as "subversive" or "supportive of terrorism" and block them.

You could still do all the shopping you wanted (except for left-of-center buttons and T-shirts), but you wouldn't be able to access any left-of-center blogs or boards or any foreign news sites.

[Sequoia]

20. I like your tag line.

If that's what you call it.

[reorg]

5. visiting statesman?

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, and Mr. Rangel's, who seems to be a nice enough guy. Chavez didn't "come here", he came to make a speech at the UN headquarters.

"The United Nations Headquarters site is officially international territory, not part of the United States."

http://www.un.org/av/photo/subjects/unhq.htm

A fucking great speech, to be sure, and he was very polite towards the "host country" by mentioning and praising the most notable and astute US American intellectual. It's not his fault that other Americans can't handle the truth.

[MrModerate]

10. I was actually talking about his appearance at . . .

The Mt. Olivet Baptist Church in NY, where I think he met the category of "visiting statesman."

[Bozita]

3. Good analysis. Good post. ... Recommended

[Vidar]

4. Great post K&R.

[goodhue]

8. Great post!

It was indeed an emporor wears no clothes moment.

[Canuckistanian]

9. Rush went ballistic over Rangel's response today

He wouldn't stop talking about it. He said that Rangel's response was "too tepid", that it was somehow a speech of "remorse" at all the vitriol directed at Chimpy by the Democratic party. Or something.

And, of course, the usual bashing of Pelosi as some kind of hypocrite.

His message hasn't been honed yet, but it will be.

This will hurt Democratic chances to prove their validity as the true alternative to the Madness of King George.

[chill_wind]

11. They (Pelosi, Rangel) had their priorities EXACTLY BACKWARDS

today. Inserting themselves into this Chavez carnival and pure RW media waste, while following Reid's call to "sit on the sidelines" on the matter of torture and amnesty for the Bush admin. Reid's dreadful reductionism of the torture debate- Republican "catfights." Christ!

Like Dems can appease wingers and their info-tainer windbags on ANY issue in the first place.

Scarey shit, that kind of "leadership" priority these days.

[Canuckistanian]

12. Sorry, I missed Reid's "call"

Exactly WHEN did he say to "sit on the sidelines" of the torture issue?

We're talking Senator Reid, right?

If he said that, may Koresh help us all.

And I agree on Pelosi and Rangel.

[katsy]

37. rush listeners are too stooopid...

to vote Democratic.

[eridani]

13. But he's wrong about the emperor's clothes

He got it exactly ass backwards. The new clothes are there, but there isn't any emperor inside.

[radfringe]

14. he's our devil

so only we can trash him

it's like when someone picks on your little brother or sister - you go to their defense and let them know only YOU are allowed to pick on them...

While I smirked at Chavez's comments, I do think the UN was not the place to make them. It's just not the appropriate forum for name-calling, and he could have made the same points in a more diplomatic manner.

and don't think for a moment that the repubs WON'T be using this as a club to beat Dem's over the head - no matter how much a Dem "defends" bush, one way or another it's going to be twisted and spun

most likely the next time a Dem comes out against bush they will be labeled a "CHAVEZ-IST"

[TahitiNut]

28. WRONG. Baal'zedubya is NOT my "little brother or sister"!

I owe no allegiance to him personally whatsoever. My allegiance is to the Constitution, of which he's an enemy. My allegiance is to human beings, of which he's sanctioned killings and torture by the many thousands.

I owe Baal'zedubya no more than I owe Tim McVeigh or Eric Rudolph or Ted Kascinsky ... a fair trial in a neutral venue: The Hague. And it's not to "them" I owe that; it's to me, as a civilized being.

For someone who peddled the "axis of evil" epithet against sovereign nations (and the people of those nations) for years, he is owed no protection of any "community" or "family" of which I'm any member. Nope.

[bvar22]

33. EXACTLY!!!!

TahitiNut
:patriot:

[AtomicKitten]

15. Pelosi and Rangel are not DLC.

Otherwise, your theory is sound.

[JNelson6563]

16. It seems lost on many

that what we have here is a missed opportunity. What those who are taking issue loudly to denounce Chavez for should be paraded as proof that Team Bush has done such a great job in making the world hate us, another country's leader feels free to come here and level such criticism (warranted or not). He knew much of the world would stand and applaud so he felt emboldened to do what he did.

This is the point that is being overlooked and the opportunity that is being lost.

Julie

[malaise]

17. Chavez hit them in the gut

Big time

[rateyes]

18. Eventually, truth beats a lie....

Which is scary, because the lies being told are from this country to the world. We had the whole world, including Chavez and Venezuela with us on 9.12.01, and now we can't even get the majority of the citizens of ENGLAND with us.

If we don't turn around and start treating the world community with respect and justice, instead of trying to lord our power over everybody, the world is going to rise up against us militarily one day, and we will be toast.

[Imperialism Inc.]

19. Frankly the whole thing has been way overblown.

It was a tongue in cheek remark made at the beginning of a great speech. The other things he said were much more powerful than that but it is easiest (good propaganda) to focus on the one controversial remark. The MSM and others (not the Dems in question, who were just answering questions posed to them) have used the controversial remark to rouse emotional responses thus safely blinding many to the other words that were said.

[mrdmk]

21. Here is some of this speech

<snip>
Representatives of the governments of the world, good morning to all of you. First of all, I would like to invite you, very respectfully, to those who have not read this book, to read it.

Noam Chomsky, one of the most prestigious American and world intellectuals, Noam Chomsky, and this is one of his most recent books, 'Hegemony or Survival: The Imperialist Strategy of the United States.'" "It's an excellent book to help us understand what has been happening in the world throughout the 20th century, and what's happening now, and the greatest threat looming over our planet.

The hegemonic pretensions of the American empire are placing at risk the very survival of the human species. We continue to warn you about this danger and we appeal to the people of the United States and the world to halt this threat, which is like a sword hanging over our heads. I had considered reading from this book, but, for the sake of time," "I will just leave it as a recommendation.

It reads easily, it is a very good book, I'm sure Madame you are familiar with it. It appears in English, in Russian, in Arabic, in German. I think that the first people who should read this book are our brothers and sisters in the United States, because their threat is right in their own house.

The devil is right at home. The devil, the devil himself, is right in the house.

"And the devil came here yesterday. Yesterday the devil came here. Right here." "And it smells of sulfur still today.

Yesterday, ladies and gentlemen, from this rostrum, the president of the United States, the gentleman to whom I refer as the devil, came here, talking as if he owned the world. Truly. As the owner of the world.

I think we could call a psychiatrist to analyze yesterday's statement made by the president of the United States. As the spokesman of imperialism, he came to share his nostrums, to try to preserve the current pattern of domination, exploitation and pillage of the peoples of the world.

An Alfred Hitchcock movie could use it as a scenario. I would even propose a title: "The Devil's Recipe."

As Chomsky says here, clearly and in depth, the American empire is doing all it can to consolidate its system of domination. And we cannot allow them to do that. We cannot allow world dictatorship to be consolidated.
<end of snip>

link http://www.commondreams.org/cgi-bin/print.cgi?file=/views06/0920-22.htm

[TahitiNut]

36. I posted the complete transcript (link given) and it's in my DU Journal.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2200008&mesg_id=2200008

[MamaBear]

22. Bush and the RW won't get this but ...

Just maybe Chavez was aware of the reports that FratBoy likes to fart in the presence of new aides, and then rejoice in their embarrassment.

I used to be owned by this big red tabby tomcat. When spooked, he would run and stick his head under the couch, evidently believing that since he couldn't see out, he was totally hidden, while his whole body stuck out into the room. If you walked by, he wouldn't move. If you'd touch his tail, he'd freak.

Americans think we live in a vacuum, and we are only seen by the rest of the world when we want to be, and they only see what we show them.

Maybe Senor Chavez was telling us that our big butts are sticking out into the room, and the whole world can see what a lunatic we have in charge, even though we never elected the clod.

Hugo chavez received the longest standing ovation ever recorded in the history of the General Assembly. So no matter what we think, the rest of the world was not offended, but pleased.

America's decline was never as apparent as it was in the fact that they stood up and applauded ... and applauded .... and applauded some more, until gavelled to quiet.

Some Americans evidently still think that our big economy and bigger armed forces and our still bigger nuclear arsenal will buy us the love and respect of the world. This year's General Assembly should tell us that we should either pull our heads out from underneath the sofa, or we should get the rest of ourselves under cover, because we are not a nation beloved by the world, and any solidarity the world felt for us post-9/11 is gone.

So I say thank you, Hugo Chavez, for having the courage to speak. I hope you just pulled the thorn from the lion's paw.

[Karenina]

26. Hugo chavez received the longest standing ovation

ever recorded in the history of the General Assembly.

How many here are aware of that? Just wondering.

[NorCalDem]

32. I also wonder how many here are aware that Chavez was not allowed

to bring his 'entourage' of aides, etc. with him, like the rest of the delegates were. Our government thumbed their nose at him and wouldn't let his doctor/aides even get off the plane (he makes a reference to this in his speech). Chavez could have also called Bush a "dick" and been perfectly correct in doing so.

Just puts the "devil" comment in more perspective :D

P.S. And yes, I love how American media is making it out to seem as if Chavez was sneered at by the rest of the UN (imagine chuckles and eyes-rolling) whereas if you read accounts of his speech in the foreign press, they clearly indicate that his speech was well recieved, and in fact I would presume that most of the delegation agreed with him. Just let's you know how far the mighty have fallen... :(

[warrens]

23. Bush, through Reich and Negroponte, tried to have Hugo killed

Who's the REAL thug? Thank god Reich is such an incompetent murdering boob. He fucked up the coup and the right wing was afraid to kill Chavez, realizing correctly that his supporters would hunt them down like dogs and skin them alive.

[leftperspectives]

24. Chavez 2008?

Maybe the Democrats should draft Chavez for President in 2008? Think about it. He might win over the hearts of impoverished Americans who stopped voting long ago because no one represents their interests in Washington. He already has started a sensible program to help poor Americans afford oil to heat their homes in the winter. Just a thought......

[mmonk]

25. Truth is uncomfortable sometimes.

[Imagevision]

27. Our President should have a debate with Iran's President, talk before

bombing and slaughtering more innocent civilians, we saw the Israel approach to killing lebanon civilians and they never did get back the two soldiers they claimed was the reason for the attack to begin with! (insanity)

[NorCalDem]

34. Ahmadinejad actually suggested that to our government.

He wanted to have a public debate with George Bush. Guess which one of them didn't like the idea?

Of course, Bush would have been slaughtered by Ahmadinejad in a debate forum (and you thought Bush looked bad in the Kerry debates).

[davidinalameda]

29. so Pelosi is DLC

and anyone who disagrees with Chavez is DLC

what utter crap

[nini]

30. So, anyone who isn't gushing all of Chavez

is DLC now? My issues with what he said was not WHAT he said but WHERE.

I guess I need to go make a donation to the DLC now.


:eyes:

[ShaneGR]

31. Bush and Chavez deserve a special place in hell together....

For eternity. They're both just crazy extremists in my book.

[davidinalameda]

38. you better not say that

people will accuse you of being DLC too

:sarcasm: