I'm LIVID! Bush Got Everything He Wanted: Torture, Immunity, & Tribunals!

[The Cleaner]

Sorry, but I'm mad as HELL today. I just heard on the NBC Nightly News that Bush essentially got everything he wanted - the right to continue "aggressive interrogation techniques" (aka torture), torture immunity, and military tribunals. WHAT HAPPENED TO MCCAIN, GRAHAM, et al? All their "tought talk" on the Sunday talk shows and they CAVE this easily??

Sorry, I'm PISSED. Our government just okay'd the continuation of torture! Oh, but they SAY they're still following the Geneva guidelines. How? How the HELL does that fly?

Somebody please, help me! I'm about to EXPLODE in anger!!!!!!!

Note: Realizing that this still has to be voted on and is not law of the land, yet. But probably will be. :(

Edit to ask the question: For how much longer will the international community put up with an out of control, lawbreaking, torturing world leader? Isn't it sort of like allowing Hitler to run free, or is that a wrong comparison?

[AX10]

1. Vote Democrat! A Democratic congress will not allow this shit to...

continue.

[leftchick]

9. ya think?

I have heard no objections from any senate democrats. Have you?

[az chela]

2. Doesnt he always get his own way???

The congress plays games about this shit but after a few days they give bushco what ever they want!!!!I dont know how he controls them except thru money,power,and bull shit

[Dr.Phool]

16. Maybe he tortured them!

See how good this works fella's?

[LSparkle]

3. I'm with you -- OUTRAGED is how I'd describe my mood just now

I started another thread here today saying just as much. I can't believe that people are just sitting by and allowing this bullying idiot and his gang to REDEFINE what we stand for as Americans! This is NOT the America I grew up in, nor the country I want to live in ... I want to be PROUD of our leaders, not ashamed of them ...

Damn it, I just decided to stop drinking two days ago and now this? I NEED A GLASS OF WINE!!!

:rant:

[hashibabba]

8. LSparkle, good for you for quiting. Don't let what's happening send you

back to the bottle. Believe me, its worth it to get off it and it gets easier as time goes on. Fighting for our country is easier without a hangover!

[LSparkle]

14. You are absolutely right -- I haven't felt this good in a long time

but then today rolls around and I'm angrier than I've been since Fitzmas was cancelled. I'm going to stay strong but this just plain SUCKS.....!!!

[Sapere aude]

29. If you want to stay sober you have to feel the pain. You can't anesthetiz

yourself anymore. It is tough at first but you get better at it.

[stepnw1f]

34. Hang In There... One Day at a Time

good luck.

[aquart]

4. What a surprise.

McCain once again proved to be a useless, worthless piece of trash. Well, I'm shocked.

[stopbush]

5. Our democracy will depend on the SCOTUS.

Who will challenge the shredding of our Constitution? Who has standing to bring the case?
And - most importantly - will the SCOTUS defy * as they did in the Hamdan case, or will they
cave and drive the final nail into democracy's coffin?

[Dr.Phool]

17. But Alito sez we have "The Unitary Executive".

He can do whatever the fuck he wants.

If things don't change on Nov. 7th, I'm moving to Venezuela!

[Skidmore]

6. It was my understanding from something Frist said earlier

on the Situaton Room that the compromise thus far has only been between republicans. What can we do to get Dems to vote as a block against this. At least to stand their ground and make certain it is articulated that their vote is a protest to preserve the constitution.

[Robbien]

11. Sen. Kennedy was standing behind McCain when McCain

announced the compromise torture bill.

I don't know what went on because I had to turn off the broadcast in disgust, but if Kennedy was there at the press conference, it doesn't appear the Dems are going to put up any resistance.

[Skidmore]

15. Expletive deleted because I'm trying to be civil.

But that really disgusts me.

[acmejack]

24. There is no place left for civility.

We are no longer living in a civil Country. I am so sick at heart I can't even cuss like the sailor I am.

[Robbien]

7. That is exactly how I felt when the House Com. passed their own bill

last night on allowing torture.

This is not the America I thought it was.

[gratuitous]

10. I would be outraged if I had any expectations at all

But let's face it: McCain, Graham and Warner were just going through elaborate motions to look like they opposed torture, and to give themselves plausible deniability should the shit ever really splatter out of the fan. It will be up to the Democrats to decide whether this is worth a filibuster or not. I'm persuaded it is, because even though the proposed legislation is unconstitutional, the damage it will do to the country during the time between its passage and its nullification will be incalculable.

So get after it, Mr. Kerry et al.

[BootinUp]

12. I wanna say its hard to believe

that McCain and Graham gave in.

[QuestionAll...]

13. delete

I thot you meant it was a done deal but I see I missed a bit in your OP...

[Warpy]

18. Expect more of this after the election

as the lame duck GOP congress tries to do as much damage to this country as they can, secure in the knowledge that Stupid will veto any rollbacks or overturning of unconstitutional legislation.

This will have to go through the courts, which the GOP has packed.

[beachmom]

19. Me, too

I hate McCain more than * on this one. McCain ACTS like he's against something, and then lets * get what he wants, while McCain looks like a maverick. And many people saw this coming miles away . . .

[katty]

26. McCain is an uber opportunist + NUTS

[bklyncowgirl]

20. Chimp always gets what he wants.

If he doesn't get it all there are always signing statements.

McCain & Co. have been had--no surprise here.

[katty]

27. Always, - no surprise

[madrchsod]

21. so?

no one in the civilized world will accept this end run around the conventions. bush has two more years of the world disregarding anything he says and worse he makes the case for bin boy,chavez,and the nut ball from iran. of course our congress will go along because they are all cowards...yes cowards

[FloridaPat]

22. Why are the Democatic senators not filabustering this?

Whose side is our gov't one?

[dicknbush]

23. Well we don't know that thye won't but.......

it is time to get a Democratic contorl of something. If the dems start resisting this as they should in my opinion we are just giving Rove and his crowd ammunition for November which they will use. The only hope was to have repubs resisting and they just collapsed. I think it was all a Kabuki dance any way. I knew they would find some compromise or at least pretend to find a compromise. They are all full of SHIT. Especially McCain. He is a fucking whore. He'll bend over for anyone if he thinks it will get him into the White House. I never expected any thing less from him.

[SmokingJacket]

44. It was all a charade.

And I don't think the Dems are going to try filibustering... because they're afraid they'll lose anyway and look bad right before the election. Cowards.

[zreosumgame]

25. My letter to john

no doubt to be tossed into the bit-bucket, nevertheless;

Sir,

I made the topic reflect Vetrans Affairs since your craven folding to all of Bush's purile demands will impact them (the few not tortured to death in revenge for our torturing THEIR guys) during their service. I have defended you to many of my friends, only to once again see you toss all principle to the winds for political advantage. The torture you have now allowed to be inflicted was bad enough, but IMMUNITY for crimes already commited against innocent people? You have justified every word hugo Chavez has said the last few days. Are you proud of that?

My god man, have you no shame?

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

28. Where is the unified statement of the Democratic Party against this?

[Hubert Flottz]

30. "Sieg Heil"

They have Appeased the Fascists!

[ThomWV]

31. He Hasn't Got It Until Its Voted On In Both Houses

Don't be so sure on its passage. Remember, it barely got out of Committee in the House, and the Senate Vote might be even harder than that.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

33. "Only" 31 posts.

:eyes:

[Beelzebud]

32. Yep, and really not a peep from the Dems all week...

Nice going, D.C. Dems.

You just keep waiting for them to hang themselves and are let down EVERY time.

[stepnw1f]

35. If The Dems Don't Fillibuster This

they will lose the November electiona and look like unprincipaled cowards.

[Marr]

39. If they don't filibuster this, even *I* won't vote for them.

And that's like Bush losing a fundie.

[Generic Other]

36. Not a done deal yet

We need to fight. Stalk our reps and hound our senators.

Time to fight tooth and nail. Because once these laws are enacted, democracy and freedom will be dead.

[StraightDope]

37. The only major difference between * and Hitler...

Is that Hitler didn't have nuclear weapons...

[Marr]

38. This is what happens when you allow McCain to define the opposition.

Democrats have been so content to sit out every fight, apparently in the hopes that eventually the Bush Administration will destroy so much that people will simply hand the Dems power.

I certainly won't. Why should I vote for people who are apparently content to allow this sort of thing without so much as a peep? They're not going to win people over by simply being the less fascist party.

[erinlough]

40. I'm feeling the same way plus

today I found out that my state legislature passed a bill that mandates fingerprinting for all teachers and an FBI background check, even for this old lady 35year veteran, the application asked for my weight!!!!which means I have to lie, and my Husband is in danger of the business he works for closing and he will be out of a job! All and all, the least I have to worry about is Chavez remarks which were all that CNN was talking about. And while the idiots I hear are in a tizzy about Chavez the GOP is making sure we can give the President a chance to torture people just like he used to torture frogs. Shit I hate things right now!!!!

[MrSlayer]

41. I'm not outraged as it is no more than I expected.

Did any of you honestly think that Chimp was going to be thwarted on this? And does anyone really believe the Geneva convention has been followed all these years by anyone? We've been torturing people in every conflict and so has every enemy we've ever faced. The real problem with this is that innocent people are being tortured along with terrorists, a lot more innocents than in wars previous. In other conflicts there were clearly defined enemies, soldiers in uniform fighting for the opponent and here you do not have that. I personally couldn't care less if they tortured actual terrorists to extract information but you can't just round up a bunch of random people and torture them without any proof of terrorist activity. If they had pursued this "War on Terror" correctly, these things wouldn't even be an issue.

[No Exit]

42. Bush still isn't immune.

I don't believe that ANYTHING congress passes can absolve Bush of crimes he committed before. The Constitution forbids ex post facto laws, and congress didn't change that, and can't change that without an amendment. Which they don't have.

[Generator]

43. At least I have the outrage here and sense from all of you

otherwise I would go nuts. I'm just a 40 something mom who is watching in horror and creeping dread as it always gets worse, no matter what!

AND as usual it's utter bullshit. 100% lies and deception. They haven't secured the essence of the Geneva convention like McCain claims. The only way to do that was to leave it alone. On what moral,legal, historical authority does this one man-this -George W. Bush have to unilaterally decide that. The answer should have been no, hell no, and no again from every single last one of them-Dem and Republican alike.

When I got chills watching V for Vendetta it was because I could SEE that future.

The more they compromise with Bush and the ideologue neo-fascists that are ruining this country, the more power they give them. I'm not sure it can be saved. It's insanity. I KNOW how the Germans felt. What the hell are you doing listening to this man who has no credibility on a war based on lies, on a war that's a disaster-whose messed up everything he's touched and who LET US NOT FORGET-a majority of Americans do not support.

WHO IS HE to define and destroy what we thought we were? It's just stunning. And why the hell are they letting him do this? History will blame them in the end MORE than Bush. Because they were supposed to be the ones that knew better. They were the ones that could have stopped him and instead, oh well, let's compromise with Dr. Evil to save our own political future.