Stupid fucking idiot Democrats being stupid again regarding Chavez

[boolean]

Fucking A. this pisses me off.

If a world leader had called Clinton the devil, do you think Repuglicans would have lashed out against that world leader? When the fucking hell will Democrats start being shrewed politicians and stop acting like a bunch of fucking ass whipped pansies?

Jesus H. Christ on a stick! From Clinton (Bill) to Pelosi to Rangel! Here's a lesson in Politics 101: When someone insults your enemy, no matter WHO, no matter how you feel about that someone, no matter how batshit crazy or evil or insane that someone might be, you do not openly defend your enemy. You spin it. You make some sort of fucking political hay out of it. You don't call him "my president" or any other such fucking nonsense!

The Democrats SHOULD have responded thusly: "While I disagree with the way Hugo Chavez presents his opinion on President Bush, I can understand where his sentiment comes from and why there are many people in the world who would support his rhetoric. This President is responsible for the anti-Americanism so aptly expressed by Hugo Chavez and we should be working to restore our once good name to the international community so that people like Hugo Chavez will not have such widespread support"

Is it really so fucking hard? Am I missing something here?

FUCKING A! I don't even think they GOP NEEDS to steal elections anymore when these people are their opponents!

:banghead::puke::banghead::puke::banghead::puke::banghead::puke::banghead::puke::banghead::puke::banghead::puke::banghead::puke::banghead::puke::banghead::puke::banghead::puke::banghead::puke::banghead::puke::banghead::puke::banghead::puke::banghead::puke::banghead::puke::banghead::puke:

[rurallib]

1. Yeah and the funny thing is that the wingers are going after the

Dems for being hypocrits. Jesus, did those speaking out against Chavez think the Limpone and his clones wouldn't attack them.
Limpy said that the pukes never allowed that to happen to Clinton. Like what other world leader was against Clinton? Saddam?

[JRob]

117. Bush is the devil... nt

[NVMojo]

2. Yeah, I saw Madeleine Albright on TV last night talking about how

inappropriate it was for Chavez to be doing that at the UN. She is apparently behind the times with regards to the joke Bush is and how anything he is involved in turns into a joke.

[ShortnFiery]

3. Makes one wonder how much of a Plutocracy we have become ...

Corporations always come first. Besides all these representatives are personally "sitting pretty" because they have their health care and salary.

Sometimes I think many are so arrogant that they don't give a damn about THEIR Constituents.

I'm going to remember their cowardice come their next Democratic Primary, and you should take note also. :-) :hi:

[gatorboy]

4. Pffft! Like they need to concentrate on this pointless drivel for a week.

Get it out of the way now and move on to real issues. This is the kind of fluff Republicans love to debate about. Know why? Cause it's fluff.

[longship]

5. It was pre-emptive counterspin.

Chavez played directly into the Repuke playbook. Now, if Dems support him, the Repukes will have a guaranteed screeching point.

Pelosi's and Rangel's remarks were smart and timely. They defused the issue.

I don't like it either, but that's the way it's going to play out.

[DURHAM D]

10. Agreed. eom

[Beaverhausen]

14. I agree with you on this

good post.

[Schema Thing]

15. Agreed.

I can't understand how every Dem doesn't "get" this. Maybe we really are political idiots who deserve to lose.

[JuniperLea]

28. True... still there's more, imho

If you support this sort of behavior with the goose then it's good for the gander. That's one thing the Republicans never get. The sword cuts both ways.

[Erika]

36. Agreed. They also did away with the Bush Bashing label

They were very shrewd.

[Virginia Dare]

40. I'm sure that's got a lot to do with it...

you know Rushy Seany and B.O. were seriously pissed that they didn't get their soundbite of a Democratic extreme leftist leader praising Chavez to the skies.

Still, I think Pelosi and Rangel were a bit knee-jerk in their reactions, it just sounded too defensive.

[Pirate Smile]

44. I agree.

[KaptBunnyPants]

46. How does this work well for Bush?

Since you know the way these things will work out, how does having a leader most people have never heard of insult a strongly disliked president help the Republicans? Do you know who cares about Chavez? Us and the Freepers. That's about it, in this country. Unless the Dem leadership is still trying to pick up the Freeper vote, this was just a flat out stupid move. One more slap in the face to all those idiot "true-believers" out there who actually believe in Democratic values.

[longship]

113. Because...

Without Rangel's and Pelosi's statements the Repukes would be able to paint the Democrats with the same brush that they will now paint Chavez, from the same damned paint bucket no less.

I think Pelosi's statement was equally over the top as Chavez's was. She responded to Chavez's name-calling by doing some of her own. Hypocrisy.

Rangel handled it precisely the way it should have been. Dignified and low key.

[onenote]

47. exactly right - rally round the flag syndrom

The fact is that a significant portion of the public, including those who are slipping away from the repubs and towards the Democrats, have a strong nationalistic streak that is easily offended when the leader of another country engages in name calling about the US president. Defusing the issue by criticizing Chavez was the smart move. (Think of it this way...some here at DU have been defending Chavez by pointing out that chimpy has referred to other countries (or their governments) as "evil." True. But consider the following: do you think that chimpy is regarded as a hero in those countries for having made that statement?)

Its the rally 'round the flag syndrome and, like it or not, its real.

[roseBudd]

108. I agree politics is a chess game. Bush is deluded, dumb & dangerous but

he is not a devil. There's simply no such thing. No angels either.

[femrap]

130. However there are sadistic sociopaths. nt

[femrap]

129. maybe there should be a 'strategy.'

I know that is difficult for the Dems...but maybe someone like a Kennedy, or a John Conyers could come out and react to the HUMOR of Chavez's comments....and be able to get a few digs in on W about his 'evility.'

Maybe the Dems are working with Stephen Colbert on this aspect....lol. (I wish).

I have come to the conclusion that the Dems couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. It's sad.

[SmokingJacket]

71. So a win-win situation for the Bushies.

Either the Dems AGREE with Chavez and look batshit crazy, or DISAGREE with Chavez and essentially support Bush.

Either Rove is a genius, Chavez is getting paid, or I don't know what.

[longship]

133. Ahem...

One can still agree with Chavez without supporting his words at the UN.

Rangel's words preserved the status quo of Dems and Chavez.

[malaise]

85. Bingo n/t

[blondeatlast]

91. Precisely. nt

[Divine Discontent]

98. Agreed by me, too. It was too much (devil), everything else was good)

they would run ads saying dems call bush the devil if they went along with it. It was overboard and they have to say they're against because we're NOT like the republicans. They would sit back and say nothing if it was them.

[Laurab]

102. Another "Agreed"

while I personally tend to agree with Chavez, and maybe some of the Dems do, too it would NOT serve them well if they were to publicly agree. In fact, it would do the opposite. By saying what they said, they move on to more important things - I hope.

[Tin Man]

104. I concur

...and for the those who disagree: it's called politics, people... you gotta pick your battles wisely - especially when the general elections are only 6 weeks away.

Jeesh.

[bobbie]

135. That's true about picking your battles

Then again, what battles have the dems picked in the past six years? Refresh my memory please, 'cause I recall them waving the white flag on pretty much everything.

Chavez may be over the top in his rhetoric, but he's about the only world leader with the balls to speak the truth. And the fact that he's keeping a high profile and fighting Bush openly is likely the reason he's still alive. The more public he is the more obvious it would be if the BFEE tries to overthrow him a *third* time.

Pelosi's name calling demeaned her. I expect better from the House Minority Leader. And Rangel has gall saying that a foreign leader can't comment on Bush. Gee, Bush rampages around the world starting wars but it's off limits for concerned world leaders to criticize him? Bullshit.

[Tin Man]

145. "waved the white flag on pretty much everything" is hyperbole

...Anyone willing to think/research recent events will find plenty of examples of Dems fighting back.

And while there have been notable occasions in which Dems folded on important issues, the idea that Dems should rally-round Chavez is positively ludicrous - Rove would ejaculate in his pants.

[bridgit]

111. that's a component that Chavez's cheerleaders here simply do not...

understand :thumbsup:

[oasis]

119. "Know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em".

You are exactly right.

[question everything]

125. Thank you. I am surprised that this thread has not deteriorated, yet

to a love fest for Chavez, as has been all over DU.

For some reason, DUers still think that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" and will embrace yes, thugs - as Nancy Pelosi called him - like Chavez, and Ahmedinijad, and Nassrallah and Castro.

And these are the same people who do not realize how embracing these people can cost us not only the next elections, but also could bring the end of the Democrats as a party that can offer an alternative to the Republicans.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2523227#2523432

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2837786

[WildEyedLiberal]

127. Agreed

I wanted to add my agreement here because this stupid thread has 44 recommends. The top recommended thread at DU is a thread called "stupid fucking Democrats," and maybe I'm alone in finding that disgusting, but I do nevertheless.

I fail to see why the Democrats should have any loyalty to Chavez.

[eridani]

139. They shouldn't--

--but they damned well should never, under any circumstances, defend Bush. Silence is the best option, IMO.

[VolcanoJen]

143. Good Play and couldn't agree more.

We have far bigger fish to fry.

The "Chavez Issue" is no means to our ends, that much we should know for certain.

[dpbrown]

6. Spot on observation - Republicans would never be caught like this

Once again Democrats are "going to bat" for Bush - idiots.

[populistdriven]

7. Kicked to 5 recc's

Welcome to the greatest page! You made it in less than 10 minutes!

[Avalux]

8. Nah. Should have ignored it completely.

Although defending Bush isn't a bad strategy for the election, and that's the objective right now. Winning in November.

[boolean]

13. Isn't?

I hope that's a typo!

[Avalux]

21. It's not. Think about it.

Given the choice between defending Bush or siding with Chavez? Last thing they want to do is give Republicans ammunition to call them names and say they support a dictator's bashing of the President of the United States.

[QuestionAll...]

32. groan! ! you can't really mean that....

oh , mama it hurts!

bush is the fucking dictator, Not Chavez!

can't we keep things real, ever?

I'm going to cry now....
it's really hopeless, it's really fucking hopeless.

[Avalux]

48. It's politics, unfortunately -

and an American people who aren't as well-versed as we are. Doesn't mean I like it; just the way it is.

[blondeatlast]

93. "...American people who aren't all as well-versed as we are..."

I'm glad others are trying to open DUers political-wonked eyes to this.

We don't have to like it, but how it plays out we have to live with.

Keep testifying--there are a few who are starting to see the light!

:toast:

[rman]

140. Politics is long overdue for a dose of reality.

Such as the acknowledgment that the US is in fact imperialistic, and that it is the front runner in this era of neo-colonialism.

[Greyhound]

54. I feel for you. It does seem that reason and sanity are slipping away

more every day. At least you in Canada get to be spectators to the melt-down, although it will effect you as well, those of us that live here are going to be drafted into the nuttery. :hi: :hug:

[Kurovski]

62. I'm not so sure that Chavez is a dictator.

I don't think the people who voted for him were coerced, nor were his votes stolen by operatives, nor were they stolen through electronic means.

Jimmy Carter's organization gave the election a clean bill of health.

Please tell me in what way you see Chavez as a "dictator".

I'm seriously asking. Or were you just playing devil's advocate?

[Avalux]

64. Sorry for the misunderstanding, was playing devil's advocate.

I don't think he's a dictator, but most Americans do because that's what they've been told.

[Kurovski]

65. I just wanted to be sure.

No need for an apology, but thank you nevertheless.

[Cha]

99. Most Amercians do because our

freakin' corporatewhore media tells them he is.

"It THe Media Stupid!"!

[Annces]

9. Ya, great time for them to get outraged

when someone calls Bush exactly what he is.

Isn't it nice that Rangel is trying to keep manners in place, even while our rights are being ripped to pieces.

[rhiannon55]

Did Rangel call * "my" president?

:wtf:

[boolean]

42. Video of Rangel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX1lBOxoJeU

[bobbolink]

57. sigh.. I have news for Rangel-- we badly NEED "foreigners"

to speak the truth!!

I like Rangel, but I sure don't get this from him...

Remember that little concept of freedom of speech?


edit: meant to post a thank you for the video... got a bit carried away. :)

THANKS!

[femrap]

131. Of all people....Rangel????

And Pelosi???? What is this? All the minorities and those making 70 cents on the dollar of white boys go the defense of this president?

WTF....I am just in shock. We're toast.

[NotGivingUp]

61. how about it! our country is falling down around us, and they

decide to be outraged about this. unbelievable.

[ShaneGR]

11. I just wish there were LESS extremists in power worldwide...

Bush, Chavez, the Iranian guy. Gees, could things be any worse? When is France gonna elect a psycho?

[Clarkie1]

115. Congratulations, you have posted the most enlightened statement here. nt

[Buzz Clik]

12. Joining the rabble in the gutter is not for everyone.

If Chavez wants to talk like he's on crack, so be it. It will be a cold day in hell when I support that kind of behavior.

By the way, Bush is a political opponent, not an enemy. You need to keep this all in perspective.

[populistdriven]

16. Turning the other cheek doesn't win elections!

[Buzz Clik]

20. I agree -- and (now) so does John Kerry.

However, that doesn't mean we emulate our opponents when we respond to them.

[populistdriven]

30. But thats just the point - If D's say Chavez is insane that is responding

to the power of the Republicans & MSM corporate whores. It is a defensive response.

If the D's use it to their advantage it is an Attacking action and not a response.

Attacking is how you win elections. Not responding.

The point made by this thread is to use whatever you can to attack & win. If you don't you are always responding and reinforce sterotype of spinelessness.


:bounce: :kick:

[Buzz Clik]

34. Endorsing his comments is leaping into the shitpile with the GOP.

no thanks.

[populistdriven]

38. No endorsement is necessary or implied if you say that many people think

some of the actions of Bush are immoral - ie torturing innocents and bombing children - but that we as democrats disagree and think Bush is simply misguided.

[Laurab]

103. It would be best if they said those things without mentioning Chavez. n/t

[arcane1]

27. Bush is a domestic enemy of the Constitution

the very kind of enemy our military swears an oath to fight

[billbuckhead]

80. BUSHCO supports torturing and naplam bombing little kids

If that's not like the devil, then what is?

[ima_sinnic]

81. * IS the enemy. In case you haven't noticed, war has been declared

on We The People. I fully agree with the OP--there was a way this could have been spun, by showing the universality of Chavez's sentiments.

[bigluckyfeet]

101. Opponent my ass

chump is a enemy of every living thing.

[QuestionAll...]

17. makes me wonder who they think the 'enemy' is...

I think it's us rabble, actually.

another disgrace by the so-called opposition.

all bought and paid for or blackmailed and threatened. No Other Explanation.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

18. I would have left it at...

this:

While I don't agree with President Chavez's remarks, we are a country that has the right to Free Speech -- allowing someone to voice an opinion, even if it is unpopular, is what has made America strong. I am thankful I live in a country where Mr. Chavez, where we ALL can have full expression of rights.

[windbreeze]

116. I vote for your response...

It would have been much better than the way it was handled by either Pelosi or Rangel..and would have done the job just fine...
wb

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

19. Disappointing but not hard to predict Dem leadership response.

[The Deacon]

22. Yep, You Are Missing Something -

If any of them had said that the lead story on Tucker, Hardball, Situation Room, Meet The Press, Headline News, CBS, NBC & ABC Evening News, and all other MSM outlets would be: "Why do Democrats hate America?"
There is another old strategy - don't wash your dirty linen in public. While the GOP (Brand Old Pedophiles) leadership from Newt "I Like To Divorce My Wives While They're In The Hospital Recovering From Cancer Surgery" Gingrich to Karl "I LIke To Sexually Abuse Small Barnyard Animals" Rove have honored this more in the breach than the observance - they control the MSM & can get away with it. WE, on the other hand, will have to wait until we once again control Congress & hold the whip on Media Consolidation Bills again - and we will then see an amazing return to the days of the Liberal Media. You just have to wait for Whores to act like Whores.
Patience, patience.

[stella]

23. I`m so tired of

whimpy democrats, why are they always defending bush?

[BurtWorm]

24. What would you do if you were in their shoes?

I probably would let the buzz do its own work. I certainly wouldn't say anything against Chavez. But I wouldn't praise Chavez either if I wanted to preserve my political life.

[stella]

25. I be quiet

[Kurovski]

26. Another quick way to deal with it:

"He overstates his case, but it's a case made from actual evidence."

[sufrommich]

29. I am so sick of this

Democrat bashing.Most Americans,Dem or Rep,respect the office of the presidency.It holds much cultural and historical significance regardless of which party occupies it.If you believe that most Americans are cheering on a foreign president for calling any American president a devil,I've got a bridge to sell you.I get the feeling a lot of people who are posting these rage filled rants at the Democrats in these countless threads,are really enraged at the thought that most Dems aren't as far to the left as they wish we would be.Rants like this don't change minds.

[QuestionAll...]

37. you bet not far enough to the left...

here they are, the Pelosis and all the boot lickers, following the stinky bush ass all the way to the right and over the damn cliff.

[sufrommich]

45. Rangel and Pelosi

are right wingers now?Sorry,that's nuts.

[QuestionAll...]

49. I did not say that, so watch your retorts, please!

reread Your Own Post.
You pretty well said that Dems should be more centre than left - I totally disagree - is that allowed?

I want a Real distinction between the two parties, not republican lite because the more fascist Bush gets the uglier the 'moderate' position is for americans.

cripes!
&^%$!@*#%

[sufrommich]

66. ...

"here they are, the Pelosis and all the boot lickers, following the stinky bush ass all the way to the right and over the damn cliff."

That's not accusing Nancy Pelosi of moving to the right with Bush?What is it?
I got news for you ,if Nancy Pelosi and Charlie Rangle are now dead to you because they defended the office of the president,maybe you should find another party.They are both the epitome of a liberal Democrat.They both have impeccable records and represent their constituents who elected them as they should.

[verse18]

31. Chavez has been outspoken

about his criticism of * for a while. I don't understand why people are going over the edge by what he said. Unlike *, Chavez speaks the truth and doesn't pander to the crowd he happens to be speaking to.

[Pavulon]

33. Why should the Democratic

party back a guy who runs around in red shirts and likes to play communist? The DNC does not have a chavista agenda.

[nealmhughes]

35. A really easy response would have been: "I wasn't in NY yesterday, I was

in the House/Senate trying to get some the country back on track...Mr. Chavez was speaking as a free Venezuelan citizen, and while I do not endorse his actions, he has every right to say whatever he wants -- right now I am more interested in the civil war in Iraq and the minimum wage issue and health care and outsourcing than to pay too much attention to monkeys slinging feces at one another."

OK, maybe not the monkey poop part...

[glitch]

51. Much more sophisticated. Or more simply "who the hell cares what Chavez

says, we've got a lot of work to do saving our own country. why are you asking me about this crap?" Short simple sound bite, hard to misinterpret and still subverts the Rove spin.

[Tin Man]

39. Chavez is an egomaniac pimple on the azz of the world.

...and Dems are correct to distance themselves from this loser.

[lumpy]

53. Bush is an egomaniac pimple on the azz of the world

and Dems should be correct in distancing themselves from this loser.

[Tin Man]

72. Politics is all about picking your battles, as needed to win the war

...and Chavez ain't gonna help us eject Bush and the Repubs from power. If you want the upcoming elections to reverse the status quo, you'll forget about Chavez and focus on issues that are winners for Dems.

[lumpy]

87. Some of us don't demonize Chavez

just because Bush does. I know politics is a game, but calling Chavez names is in effect helping Bush's negative campaign against Chavez. The people of Venezuela needs postive support and the right to determine their own destiny. There is no question that the Bush administration will try to depose Chavez one way or another. He is a danger to US powers because of his influence in other So. American countries and we just can't have that can we.

[mmonk]

41. This party is the loyal opposition (with handlers), not

a political opposition with instinct.

[devilgrrl]

43. Couldn't agree more...

Sorry people, * is the devil and people outside the country can say so.

[niallmac]

50. Seems a lot of DUers don't like Chavez.

He's too radical for them.
I think of the sick homicidal death squads we have
used via the sick homicidal U.S. supported fascist
S.A. governments we have created and I wonder just
how it is Chavez is the boogy man.
If the poor people in his country are behind him
then so am I. I trust their experience.

[bobbolink]

55. A lot of DUers don't like Chavez, and the rest of us Leftist Loonies

:hi:

Can't figure out exactly what the rationale is, but.... I'm sure it's a good one. :evilgrin:

[lumpy]

58. Looks like it's the old "America, right or wrong"

shit, plus I get the feeling that there are posters here who lean to the right. Sometimes nationalism is stronger that altruism.

[KaptBunnyPants]

63. Bush is called a war criminal every hour, on the hour, at DU.

We have people calling him hitler, calling for his whole administration to be sent to the Hague. But apparently, calling him an alcoholic and a nepotist, or joking that he is the devil is beyond the pale of political discourse. I just don't get it.

[Greyhound]

56. Not many, just very loud. n/t

[w4rma]

52. I agree. You stand back and you let your opponent take their lumps.

You don't defend that opponent. And you certainly don't attack a potential ally who we need to supply us with oil.

[bobbolink]

59. Can we grin while the lumps are being taken??

:evilgrin:

[Poll_Blind]

60. Boolean, you should quickly check out this thread which also asks....

..."What SHOULD they have said"? Right here.

My own contribution, which has the same gist as your own:

"While I disagree strongly with President Bush's deception which has led us into the costly and dangerous Iraq war, his assult on reproductive rights and his stunning assault on the division between church and state, I cannot agree with President Chavez when, even jokingly, he refers to Bush as the devil. Such rhetoric is not only unhelpful, it is unstatesmanlike. It is rhetoric like this which causes political problems to get worse, not to get better."

I, too, wind up asking "Would this have been so difficult?"

I know it may seem like alot of people are swallowing crazy pills in this phantasmagoric choice for unity with the president, but there's alot of head-scratchers out there, like you and some of the respondants in this thread, who are upset and, more importantly, deeply puzzled, at just how (what transpired with Pelosi, Rangel, et al.) passes for an adequate, politically-adept response.

PB

[Canuckistanian]

67. This is why the current Dems will always be "a little people"

They do it to themselves with circular firing squads and weak-kneed responses like this.

At the very least, they should have kept their mouths shut.

[Cleita]

68. You are so right and these kind of

provincial attitudes have spoiled relations between our country and Latin America for as long as I can remember. Our leaders, mostly the conservative white establishment, have treated the leaders and people of those countries with very little respect, especially when they stand up to our imperialistic stances and defy us.

[Tom Joad]

69. The thing that bothers me the most is that this is being reported

as "anti-Americanism" rather than anti-Bush. Damn, the whole world is anti-bush, get over it.

[Tin Man]

74. And that's exactly why Dem leadership had to play their cards as they did

...can't afford to let Rove paint them as "anti-American Chavez lovers". It's just that simple.

[Joey Liberal]

70. Chavez is right n/t

[nedbal]

144. K & R

[Clarkie1]

73. Wrong. 100% wrong. We are ALL Americans. No foreign leader has a right

to come to OUR country and insult any of our elected leaders.

[NotGivingUp]

75. it was at the UN and he's NOT an elected leader. and anybody

has the right to speak out the truth. I applaud him for it.

[boolean]

77. Jinx!

:)

[Clarkie1]

79. He said it in Harlem. And whether or not we believe he was duly elected

is completely beside the point.

I applaud both Rangel and our great Democratic House leader Nancy Pelosi for their condemnation of this petty man.

[lumpy]

90. Has Rangel and Pelosi condemned Chavez

For his political stance or because of the words he chose to describe Bush?

[boolean]

76. Shows how much you know

1) He wasn't in our country. He was at the U.N., an international territory.

2) Bush was never legitimately elected!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

78. Why not?

I'm an American, it says so on my passport, and I welcome any foreign leader to come here and insult our elected leaders. Especially one so deserving of insult as the Boob-in-Chief.

[scarletwoman]

82. Oh for cripesakes!

Apparently, tribalism trumps all for you. How wretchedly provincial...

I'm a human being first and foremost. It is merely through an accident of birth that I happen to reside in this particular land mass on the planet.

I recognize that being born *here* -- as opposed to someplace like, say, Sudan -- is most certainly a fortunate birth. But it is the recognition of the wholly arbitrary nature of my good fortune that instills in me the determination to work for the betterment of ALL humanity.

The greatest enemy of humanity today is the corrupt imperialist corporatocracy that eminates from the world's moneyed elite -- the U.S./Western Ruling Class.

Why should I feel any loyalty to the despoilers of the planet, the destroyers of freedom and hope for millions of human beings? My loyalty is to all of humanity -- not to the corrupt ruling class of the country I happened to be born in.

Viva Chavez! He is one the few Lights illuminating the present Darkness.

sw

[lumpy]

92. Yay Verily

I echo your sentiments.

[Clarkie1]

112. You must not know much about Chavez and the atrocities commited

by his police and security forces.

[scarletwoman]

118. How about posting some documentation of these "atrocities"?

Let's see the sources for your assertions.

[Bjorn Against]

84. Doesn't the Constitution allow anyone to insult our "elected" leaders?

By your logic it must be wrong for any leader who disagrees with US policy to speak up at a meeting of the UN.

The fact that Bush supported a coup against him seems relevant, but that is not being brought up in the corporate media coverage. No instead it is Chavez who is the tyrannt, and George Bush was the innocent little victim who was called a name.

[Poll_Blind]

109. What kind of pride do we have to have in our own Monsters to hold..

...them above criticism for their Monstrous acts?

PB

[personman]

120. Nationalist Bull...

"No foreign leader has a right to come to OUR country and insult any of our elected leaders."

So the 1st amendment is only for Americans? The UN doesn't BELONG to us, but what's even the point of having it if leaders can't say what they think? The garbage that has poured out of our leaders mouths there is more profane then anything Chavez ever said.

-personman

"Nationalism is power hunger tempered by self-deception." - George Orwell

"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." - Albert Einstein

"Patriotism ... is a superstition artificially created and maintained through a network of lies and falsehoods; a superstition that robs man of his self-respect and dignity, and increases his arrogance and conceit." - Emma Goldman

[enigmacat]

83. I am just as angry about the confusing irony re: Chavez.

Exactly what did Chavez say that was incorrect? And, yeah, I am sure the podium still did stink from Bush.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

86. Politically Speaking, They Did The ABSOLUTELY Right Thing.

There is no doubt in my mind about that and I'm proud of them for doing so.

[midnight]

88. That's right!!!!!!!

Good Lord, I read a post earlier that said that those dems. spoke for them. I thought there is something wrong. Perhaps they were all being waterboarded in the Koolaid.

[scarletwoman]

94. "...waterboarded in the Koolaid." -- Wow! GREAT line!

Major props to you!

:bounce:
sw

[Disturbed]

96. Pelosi called Hugo Chavez a thug.

How helpful is that? She has a right to call him whatever she wishes to but
she could have said why she disagrees with his statements and his views. I wish that he had not called Busholini the devil because it gave the Rethugs the ammo that they love to have against him and now it seems that it has also put pressure on Dems to defend Busholini. The RW gain with all of this.

[Voltaire99]

89. If you were House Dem leader, you'd take anti-Bushism personally, too.

Yes, I quite agree with you. Still... After six long years of kissing Bush's ass, how'd ya expect a shill like Pelosi to respond? ;-)

Consider: Chavez is not merely a rhetorical antagonist to Bush. Nor is he only a galvanizer of world opposition to empire.

No, Chavez represents what Clintonian neoliberals absolutely hate. He is a socialist with a resource-rich country not under Uncle Sam's thumb, not paying tribute through World Bank loans or allowing his nation's wealth to be pimped by rich western interests. He confusedly thinks Venezuela's oil is Venezuela's oil, while simultaneously setting a bad example for increasingly indebted and economically challenged North Americans (by, for instance, tapping the nation's big reserves for social welfare--and even sharing his oil with us at cut-rate prices!). To a corporate factotum like Pelosi, he is a living nightmare.

That's what's at the heart of her and other feckless Dems' outrage. Inside every neolib, there's a neocon trying to get out.

[scarletwoman]

95. "Inside every neolib, there's a neocon trying to get out." -- Excellent!

Bears repeating! Well said!

:thumbsup:
sw

[Cha]

97. OOOOOooooouuuuuu! I like the

way you have the headbangers and pukers set up!

They could have at least said something clever that made it clear they could understand where a president of a country that headed off a coup from the bushits was coming from. But, the dems don't know Chavez was Democratically elected, do they?

No, they had to posture like fucking idiots.

[Vidar]

100. K&R. Lovely to see Democrats kiss up to Bush.

[MARCUSCO]

105. Oh, How I wish my late father was alive today.....

BECAUSE HE WOULD BE CALLING CHIMPY THINGS MUCH WORSE THAN WHAT CHAVEZ IS CALLING HIM! :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Lena inRI]

106. Perfectly said, boolean, you said it all for me. . .

I was puking over Rangel and Pelosi's goody-two-shoes performances. . .must be the meme from "the Billary" that from here on out until 2008, keep the Middle Americans happy with Democrats anyway you have to. . .

what these cowardly Dems don't get is that they need the power of their convictions to oppose BushCo anyway they have to. . .

Dems are heading to lose. . .putty in the hands of Rovian spin. . .he's got them jumping through hoops for the Devil.

I'm despondently sickened by the Democrat's impotent "leaders". . .we're on our own. . .FOR REAL!

:rant:

[goodhue]

107. amen

Democrats appeasement of the right-wing imperialist fascists is really getting old. Idiotic indeed.

[d_b]

110. Exactly.

And what was the point? So the RushHitlers of America can then say "oh, the Dems don't really mean it they're just blah blah blah"

[newsguyatl]

114. totally agree, and i feel your pain

they're a bunch of pansy asses who'll never take the fight to the enemy.

[brazil]

121. Bush is not the devil

Bush is a minor demon, at best. But that's enough to explain the sulfur smell.

As for Pelosi calling Chavez a "thug", that's just a stab in the back. Pelosi didn't have to say anything. With friends like these, who needs enemies?

[LoZoccolo]

122. No way, they did what they should.

The Republicans know that they don't have to win every single battle; they can still neutralize some and deny their opponents wins in that. Having anything to do with Chavez could be spun to also having an affinity with Iran and Cuba as Chavez has an affinity with them, and thus would risk a Republican win. The Democrats can win on so much more that to risk a Republican win on this wouldn't be prudent.

[femrap]

123. Boolean.....you and I should

set up our own Political Media Consulting Firm. I agree 100%.

I nearly drove my car into a ditch when I heard what Pelosi said....WTF?

Most of the Dems are totally whammied by the Pugs....don't know to shit or go blind.

And, yes, it pisses me off.

[Chomskyite]

124. There's NOTHING to be gained for Dems to align themselves with him

He's still doing some rather unsavory things, ie. using intimidation tactics against opposition protestors. Remember what absolute power does? Would you want to have a quote out there on lexus-nexus in which you're in any way associating yourself with Chavez, whether with his terminology or not?

It's a loser. Distance yourself and get it over with and move to an issue that matters now.

[bvar22]

132. Watch this video.

http://www.linktv.org/pages/selectorPop.php4?caller=http://www.archive.org/download&prefix=bolivars_20060612&name=bolivars_20060612&filetype=mov

Midway through, Palast interviews the head of the opposition Party in Caracas, someone directly connected to the failed Coup attempt in 2002.
This man is FREE (awaiting trial),Working out of his office in Caracas, and giving interviews to the Foreign Media.

He does NOT appear to be suffereing from ANY intimidation or supression.

In fact, Palast interviews several members of the Opposition who are FREELY voicing their problems with Chavez.


There is a preponderance of Anti-Chavez propaganda circulating through the Corporate Megaphones in the US. Unless you can DOCUMENT your claims with impartial testimony, I must doubt your accusations.


On Edit: Democratic Party Spokespersons COULD have deftly handled this situation WITHOUT aligning themselves with Chavez OR Bush* (see the example in the OP). Instead, they CHOSE to align themselves with Bush*. This alignment on the International stage gives tacit endorsement to ALL the Bush/Republican policies.

Historically, The Democratic Party Leadership will "Close Ranks" with the Republican Party Leadership to protect the system (see: Iran Contra).

There is NO political party representing Middle Class Working Americans in the USA.
Nader was more right than wrong.

[eridani]

141. But there is plenty to be gained by just STFU n/t

[Singular73]

126. Its politically perfect to bash Chavez

They should trash Chavez for that.

Like Mahr said: "He might be an asshole, but he's our asshole."

Think about it this way: You can complain about a relative until the cows come home, but if a non-family member bashes one of your relatives, you go apeshit.

Same thing here, at a macro scale.

The democrats aren't completely politically hapless. It helps them more than it helps Bush.

[Straight Shooter]

128. I'm glad I clicked on this.

Whether you love him or hate him or don't care one way or the other, Chavez did not make that statement out of a vacuum. There was a reason for it. A Dem politician trying to make political hay out of a perfect opportunity is like a one-armed man trying to catch a greased pig. Jeebers.

Excellent rant. :thumbsup:

[orleans]

134. yes yes yes (almost like sex)

"The Democrats SHOULD have responded thusly: "While I disagree with the way Hugo Chavez presents his opinion on President Bush, I can understand where his sentiment comes from and why there are many people in the world who would support his rhetoric. This President is responsible for the anti-Americanism so aptly expressed by Hugo Chavez and we should be working to restore our once good name to the international community so that people like Hugo Chavez will not have such widespread support""

EXACTLY!!! (and well put i might add)

[NobleCynic]

136. Dead on.

[rman]

137. Most Dem reps to expect foreign nations to put "US interests"

before their own. That's why there is not a big difference in US foreign policy regardless of which party is in power.

[SoCalDemGrrl]

138. Disagree- I believe this is a wise move for the Dems

It's a tough spot Chavez put all of us in.

OF COURSE WE AGREE that Bush is quite evil and his actions have resulted in the

deaths of many innocents, but if the Dems were to line up behind Chavez now, just a few weeks

before an important mid term election, it would be suicidal.

So, smartly they are being patriotic Americans and supporting "the office of President".

Notice that Rangel said we have "problems with our President, but they should be addressed by Americans".

That to me is the correct move to make in this chess game.

THE DEMS EFFECTIVELY DIFFUSED WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN the KARL ROVE/GOP TALKING POINT #1 FOR THE NOVEMBER MID-TERM. BRAVO FOR THEM!!!!!

[upi402]

142. BUSH IS ROYALTY, why can't planet earth just understand?

ordained by jesus, coached by god
thou shalt not take his initial in vain
W

[Moderator]

146. locking....

This is inflammatory.