Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Is Chavez a hero for calling Bush names?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:00 PM
Original message
Is Chavez a hero for calling Bush names?
I don't think so. I happen to agree with what he said about Bush's character in Harlem, but there's nothing heroic about him saying it. He's bringing the level of conversation down to the personal. Any dumb freeper can do that. :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. No, they're all acting like a bunch of schoolyard bullies. One can be
critical, even scathing (witness Olbermann's brilliant commentary) without resorting to acting like a cranky 8 year old.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Agreed
I find it disturbing that so many of the worlds leaders are acting like this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Freepers will laugh at me for saying this, but Bush lowered the standard.
They'll laugh, but it's true. It still doesn't excuse others getting down in the muck with him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
25. It's true though
I think his intent is to come across as a 'straight shooting everyman' that people can relate to but it makes me think he is just another a**hole.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
momzno1 Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. being subtle doesn't seem to get us very far
Edited on Thu Sep-21-06 02:13 PM by momzno1
I, for one, am thrilled that he said what he said. and in context, the devil comments were a tiny part of the greater message.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. Have you heard/read any of Olbermann's commentaries? Not at all subtle,
but intelligent and effective. There's a way to get people to hear what you are saying, and a way to get attention for the wrong reasons. Chavez's (and Bush's) rhetoric was not the former, IMO.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
QuestionAll... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. whats the way? cuz it's sure been a top secret item lately. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeighAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #21
35. Sadly, Bush's approval rating will skyrocket
Edited on Thu Sep-21-06 02:23 PM by LeighAnn
This is another one of those false-patriotism issues, everybody's got to act like they love Bush now or else they'll be supporting terrorism or whatever.

I'm trying to decide whether or not my joy at hearing those words spoken will be worth the fallout.

Here's a letter I put out on the wire in support of Chavez:

To many people, lying to start a war in which scores of thousands are killed could easily be considered beyond "diabolical". If Chavez is right, it would confirm my worst fears.


I encourage everyone to contact the media and remind everybody what Bush is guilty of, and that just because Chavez said outrageous things at the UN it doesn't make Bush a good guy.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. i don't think he should have used the UN like that, i also think he got
a heads up that he wouldn't be getting a seat at the table and decided to use his b speech because he figured he had nothing to lose.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Makes sense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
40. so, what would you
have rather he said?
Maybe some pretty, meaningless words that no one listened to, and that meant absolutely nothing?

Someone HAS to call bush out- SOMEONE has to call the 'man' on what he is doing. And if there is no one in the US with the courage, or aplomb to do it so others will listen, then I'm grateful at least there is SOMEONE in this world who isn't afraid of this monster that has taken over our country.

Is bush the devil? Just as much as Saddam Hussien is a "monster" or "an animal" or "sub-human"-
or that tired old phrase "an EVIL-DOER".

If we don't like our fearfilled leader being called names, someone has to find a way to muzzle him-
Because he's gonna reap what he sows.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. He's called him out many times before and it's plenty of coverage
i don't think the UN is the right place for it and thats my opinion. I also think Bush using the UN for sayings like "Axis of Evil" is also wrong.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. nothing has gotten the kind of
play this is getting. And while I actually personally don't like the 'devil' comparison, it was effective. It bothers me that Rangel and Pelosi come back with the "thug"- "how dare you" indigniant attitude. Everyone here has a right to speak- including Chavez. Rangel's remarks (to me) sounded like he thought Chavez should have been silenced. And THAT goes against everything America is all about. Doesn't that bother you?

There is a way of distancing oneself from a comment without the pre-tense of indignation, and pious posturing. I expected better out of Rangel. Shame on me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. Effective in what way, though.
Is the average American thinking, "Gee, if Hugo Chavez thinks Bush is a devil, maybe he is a devil?"

Chavez isn't thinking of American voters when he says such things. He's thinking of Venezuelan ones.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #51
57. you really think he's
concerned about being re-elected?
Maybe he's pissed as ..... and he just ain't gonna take it anymore? Maybe he was feeling like what the heck- lets stop pretending everything is hunky dory to the world, while ripping each other to shreds behind closed doors?

I don't know anymore.

I've been here far too long to still entertain hope.

peace- no more argument from me-
blu
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #57
62. He's a politician. Of course he's concerned about getting re-elected.
(Unless you're implying he controls the electoral mechanism, so why should he worry?)

I doubt his statements are as simple as DUers think they are. We're not his main constituency.

Nevertheless, I think he may be partly motivated (maybe even largely motivated) by the history of Bushist intereference in his country's politics. And for that, I can't blame him for thinking or saying Bush is a devil. But I don't think name-calling is particularly heroic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #62
100. Could be Chavez is trying to position himself as the new independent....
... icon for our Southern neighbors, now that Castro is fading.

Also, by being so outlandish, he becomes noticed; and being noticed may make it tougher for outsiders to overthrow his government without notice or repercussions.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
5. Did You HEAR the speach? U.N. is just Right Venue for Strong Expression
Remember, U.N. is international jurisdiction.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
6. It seems like it when I look at some of the threads here today.
It's disappointing to see the vile things being said about some of the Democrats because they dared to criticize Chavez's remarks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. No these Democrats are DEFENDING the pResident. That's UNSAT
Our Dear Leader is a WAR CRIMINAL and the rest of the world considers him as such. Chavez had every right to speak the truth. :-) :thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
63. Some people judge a person solely by how much they express
raw hatred for Bush.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
8. Of course not. But is he right in calling Bush the Devil?
Time will tell.

IMO, he is off a little. Dick Cheney is the Devil, no wait maybe it is Karl Rove, no...so many to pick from.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Devil is a supernatural term. It's off the mark.
Moronic piece of shit, on the other hand...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. LOL true, true!
At least he didn't call him Hitler or Stalin or somesuch nonsense. I have to agree with some of the others, name calling by supposed 'world leaders' diminishes the position and looks childish.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
94. hahahaha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Richard D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
30. I agree about wicked dick
But did you see the video of Chavez. At that moment he looks to heaven, crosses himself, and obviously is doing so with a bit of a jokester coming through. Everyone laughed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. I did see that, it was funny.
And the empty US seat really said it all. Bolton could have at least been there to defend his Leader. Why we allow weak people to run our govt is beyond me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Richard D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:30 PM
Original message
I heard Chavez received . . .
. . . one of the longest lasting applauses in UN history.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
9. A blunder, maybe, but nothing more
So Chavez shot his mouth off.

So did the Pope, and the calls for forgiveness are given full voice.

Sr. Chavez, shall we say, overspoke. A rhetorical excess. Tell me, who died as a result?

--p!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. The question is, is it heroic?
In my opinion, no.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Freedom_from_Chains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
10. No, he is a hero for speaking the truth.
Too bad the Democratic party doesn't have the nads to do the same.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
53. You mean Bush really is a devil?
:evilfrown:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
QuestionAll... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. yes, he is. looky here.
and Poppy was Diablo I.
the twins may be the Expansion set.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Freedom_from_Chains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. And here too.
Edited on Thu Sep-21-06 03:28 PM by Freedom_from_Chains



He does not appear the same all of the time, that is part of his diabolical nature.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
QuestionAll... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
56. just saw Pelosi yapping on CNN, the 'thug' thing.
what a sell out.
good god if that's the best the opposition to the devil has...

no wonder these last 6 years have been allowed to happen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #56
69. Yes! We need a new speaker ... she's lame. :( n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
11. I like that he knocked the Chimp down a few pegs...
and embarassed him in front of the world, but that's just my selfish feelings. Diplomatically, it probably wasn't the best thing, but with that narcissistic wack job and his minions in charge, is there any hope for civil discourse? Highly doubtful.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
12. Hugo is a hero for championing the poor, reining in corrupt
corporations & paying off his coutry's debts. Insults to Bush are just delicious icing on the cake.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
manic expression Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #12
99. Exactly n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
13. No but at least he's not a coward!
America needs some non cowards in politics too!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
16. no, he's a hero for all the other things he said in his speech
sadly, too much attention is being placed on the name-calling, too little attention on the actual content of his speech

I thought the remarks were funny, and far nicer than anything I would say about a man who tried to have me killed
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
18. No
It's gratifying to hear this kind of stuff, I suppose, but in the end hurts more than it helps.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
19. The foreign policy of 6th graders
As I stated on another post: the rhetoric of us-versus-them is now world wide and does not do us any good. Bush was just as insulting as Chavez. Both were inappropriate and frankly--grade school. We need someone to take them by the scruff of the necks and make them at like adults. The foreign policy of 6th graders.

Also: the applause Chavez got at the UN versus the applause Bush received (or lack there of) indicates how much the world hates Bush--and therefore us. He has destroyed more than our bank account, environment, retirement, access medical insurance, education... He has destroyed our good name in the world.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
20. No, but this Admin has itself to blame for all this
They have no class and are treated as such. I can't help but wonder how the rest of the world feels about the name calling that's taking place. I don't doubt we're not the only ones to be getting a chuckle from Chavez's words.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Richard D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
22. I think it was brilliant
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
schmuls Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
24. If he substituted the word criminal for devil and left off the sulphur
remarks, then he would have been right on, instead of being a "cartoon character". I thought it amusing, though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #24
41. I agree with you.
If people here hadn't started dumping on Charlie Rangel because of what he said about Chavez, I wouldn't have given two thoughts to what Chavez said. But because I did, I had to conclude "devil" was a weak description. "Criminal," as you say, is more substantive and on the mark--more "falsifiable," at least.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dollydew Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
27. Chavez
Bush tried to have the man killed and you think he should be nice? What planet are you on?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
28. Somebody in the international community has to start
saying something. I don't know if calling him the devil was the right word. Also, why is this any different than Bush referring to three nations as the axis of evil? However, I digress. I would have called him a war criminal myself if I were Chavez or anyone in the international community who dares bring it up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. Yeah, too bad Chavez didn't refer
to bush as the "war criminal" and then the talking shitheads could go off on that and maybe make people think at the same time.."chimp=war criminal=hmmmm?" Damn Straight!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
29. Not for his remarks, but for selling oil cheaper to our poorest
neighborhoods. I'm shocked to actually be hearing about it on MSNBC.

Right or wrong, bullying/belitting is the only language the chimp understands.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
31. He probably is a hero.
People in power are so duplicitious and dishonest, that it's rather refreshing hearing someone speak out. I don't believe in a devil, but I'm sure if there was one, he'd likely be residing inside Bush's soulless shell.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
32. hero?...no- Ballsy? yes... speaking the truth takes courage- and
our own personal agenda's often seep in. If Chavez hadn't been as theatric and used the Devil comparison, how much notice would he have gotten????

Look back at Reagan. The man played people with words. At least in Chavez, there is more truth than opinion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
36. No, but he has a right to say whatever he wants.
If any of us agree with any of what he says, it doesn't make us friends of his. And as far as bringing down the level of conversation - I'd say Bush started it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
37. No, he's worse than Bush.
The only thing that could be worse than Bush is someone who knowingly and consciously lowers themselves to Bush's level. And that's exactly what Chavez did.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #37
46. I wouldn't go that far.
Edited on Thu Sep-21-06 02:32 PM by BurtWorm
I think he's trying to be a thorn in Bush's side, maybe because he thinks no one else is--or more likely, because Bush tried (and is undoubtedly continuing to try) to overthrow him.


PS: This probably doesn't hurt him at home, either .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
meldroc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
39. His remarks did nothing to promote intelligent discourse,
though they did make me laugh...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Justice Is Comin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
42. They're driving on sugar cane down there
We're getting a high colonic with the hose nozzle ever since 1980. All bush mutants.

I hate that sob so much, there isn't enough time to express it if I live to be 150.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
44. I'm torn on this.. half of me loves it..
the other half thinks it was not the right place to say it.

I have a lot of respect for the UN and what it stands for and what it can be. Because of this a childish remark like that was a bit out of place. The UN is a place of honor - which also means Bush shouldn't even be allowed in there in the first place since he has no desire to unite nations at all.

But, like I said - I also was amused by it.

I'm a fence sitter on this one.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #44
50. I can appreciate that. Ambivalence makes sense.
My point is not that Chavez is a devil, just that he's no hero just for calling Bush one.

It never fails to annoy me when something like this presents a bandwagon for DUers to jump on. I can much better understand ambivalence than grandstanding.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #50
80. No bandwagon here.
I still expect a certain level of decorum at an event like that - regardless of where they're from.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
yppahemnkm Donating Member (69 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
45. NO
No, he lost all credibility for what he had to say, no one will take him serious now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
47. The comparison between the two leaders is striking . . .
Or rather, the similarities. Chavez is a demagogue with no more interest in the genuine welfare of his people than is required to hold onto power. He has his friends and they will get the favored treatment. Sound like someone you know?

So, no, Chavez is no hero. But I think it's illustrative of the depths to which the standing of the US has sunk when a political provocateur like Chavez can indulge in fart jokes about the American president, and the world says "right-on Hugo!"

Talk about lowering the bar . . .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
diamidue Donating Member (606 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #47
78. Not fart jokes.
He was talking about sulfur as in hell. And you do remember that Bush tried to overthrow Chavez don't you? And that Pat Roberson called for his assassination. Chavez has every right to be critical of Bush and his friends.

And I believe that Chavez genuinely cares about his people. I admire the man greatly. He speaks for the majority of people of the countries in the world. Bush IS a murdering devil.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #78
90. I believe the "sulphurous smell" was a pun . . .
Satanic and flatulent at the same time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
48. Yup.
He's doing what millions of people are too cowardly to do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. Calling Bush a devil?
Maybe you can tell me what a devil is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #52
58. Sure.
It's somebody who approves of torture.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. Good one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #58
64. So call him a torturer or an approver of torture.
That would be the truth, and that would be heroic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. What's wrong with "devil?"
I mean, there's a bit of a cultural barrier. It's be the equivalent of "monster."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. It's too emotion-laden a term to be truly *truthful.*
Telling the truth is heroic, no doubt about it. But calling someone a "devil" or a "monster" is, in my opinion, saying less about the target of the epithet than the thrower of it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. Why
You don't agree that Bush is a monster?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #70
73. No, because I don't believe in monsters.
Or devils. But I know he's a torturer and thug (as Pelosi called Chavez).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. You don't think torturing is monstrous?
Do you think Bush is literally a thug, or figuratively a thug?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #74
79. I don't think "monster" is the right word to describe what Bush is.
Bush has demonstrated thuggishness over and over in his life. Thug, torturer, sadist, bully, even sociopath--all those terms get at the reality of what Bush is. Monster means nothing. Devil means nothing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #79
82. So Bush is a thug?
That is, he's the member of a 19th century Indian organized-crime cult?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #82
87. Sure.
:shrug:

He's more that than this:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. WAKE UP!!!
:D


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #75
81. Lizard people are monsters?
;)

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. Does it really matter? He's not a good person or leader and the world
Edited on Thu Sep-21-06 03:44 PM by mmonk
knows it. Devil, torturer, you'd get the same reaction from everybody concerned.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
55. oh, like *ush NEVER calls anyone any names!
what a silly question. of course, he's not a hero for doing that, but he's a hero for standing up to the **&$%^&&!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
60. No, just a window for Americans to see out into
the world beyond this cloistered society and give them an idea of what alot of the world thinks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
68. hero? no. entertaining? yes
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
71. No. He's a hero for daring to tell the truth on an international forum.
I'm hoping that more leaders in the international community will speak out as forcefully.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
72. The French haven't the balls to say whay they really feel... Go Chavez!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
76. you bet!
Especially when the name is well chosen and apt, given Bush's penchant for overwrought religiosity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. It is important of course that the names be taken in context . . .
PRESIDENT CHAVEZ DELIVERS REMARKS AT THE U.N. GENERAL ASSEMBLY
SEPTEMBER 20, 2006

"Representatives of the governments of the world, good morning to all of you. First of all, I would like to invite you, very respectfully, to those who have not read this book, to read it. Noam Chomsky, one of the most prestigious American and world intellectuals, Noam Chomsky, and this is one of his most recent books, 'Hegemony or Survival: The Imperialist Strategy of the United States.'"

"It's an excellent book to help us understand what has been happening in the world throughout the 20th century, and what's happening now, and the greatest threat looming over our planet. The hegemonic pretensions of the American empire are placing at risk the very survival of the human species. We continue to warn you about this danger and we appeal to the people of the United States and the world to halt this threat, which is like a sword hanging over our heads. I had considered reading from this book, but, for the sake of time," "I will just leave it as a recommendation.

It reads easily, it is a very good book, I'm sure Madame you are familiar with it. It appears in English, in Russian, in Arabic, in German. I think that the first people who should read this book are our brothers and sisters in the United States, because their threat is right in their own house. The devil is right at home. The devil, the devil himself, is right in the house.

"And the devil came here yesterday. Yesterday the devil came here. Right here."

"And it smells of sulfur still today."

Yesterday, ladies and gentlemen, from this rostrum, the president of the United States, the gentleman to whom I refer as the devil, came here, talking as if he owned the world. Truly. As the owner of the world.

I think we could call a psychiatrist to analyze yesterday's statement made by the president of the United States. As the spokesman of imperialism, he came to share his nostrums, to try to preserve the current pattern of domination, exploitation and pillage of the peoples of the world.

An Alfred Hitchcock movie could use it as a scenario. I would even propose a title: "The Devil's Recipe."

As Chomsky says here, clearly and in depth, the American empire is doing all it can to consolidate its system of domination. And we cannot allow them to do that. We cannot allow world dictatorship to be consolidated.

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): The world parent's statement -- cynical, hypocritical, full of this imperial hypocrisy from the need they have to control everything.

They say they want to impose a democratic model. But that's their democratic model. It's the false democracy of elites, and, I would say, a very original democracy that's imposed by weapons and bombs and firing weapons.

What a strange democracy. Aristotle might not recognize it or others who are at the root of democracy.

What type of democracy do you impose with marines and bombs?

The president of the United States, yesterday, said to us, right here, in this room, and I'm quoting, "Anywhere you look, you hear extremists telling you can escape from poverty and recover your dignity through violence, terror and martyrdom."

Wherever he looks, he sees extremists. And you, my brother -- he looks at your color, and he says, oh, there's an extremist. Evo Morales, the worthy president of Bolivia, looks like an extremist to him.

The imperialists see extremists everywhere. It's not that we are extremists. It's that the world is waking up. It's waking up all over. And people are standing up.

I have the feeling, dear world dictator, that you are going to live the rest of your days as a nightmare because the rest of us are standing up, all those who are rising up against American imperialism, who are shouting for equality, for respect, for the sovereignty of nations.

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): Yes, you can call us extremists, but we are rising up against the empire, against the model of domination.

The president then -- and this he said himself, he said: "I have come to speak directly to the populations in the Middle East, to tell them that my country wants peace."

That's true. If we walk in the streets of the Bronx, if we walk around New York, Washington, San Diego, in any city, San Antonio, San Francisco, and we ask individuals, the citizens of the United States, what does this country want? Does it want peace? They'll say yes.

But the government doesn't want peace. The government of the United States doesn't want peace. It wants to exploit its system of exploitation, of pillage, of hegemony through war.

It wants peace. But what's happening in Iraq? What happened in Lebanon? In Palestine? What's happening? What's happened over the last 100 years in Latin America and in the world? And now threatening Venezuela -- new threats against Venezuela, against Iran?

He spoke to the people of Lebanon. Many of you, he said, have seen how your homes and communities were caught in the crossfire. How cynical can you get? What a capacity to lie shamefacedly. The bombs in Beirut with millimetric precision?

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): This is crossfire? He's thinking of a western, when people would shoot from the hip and somebody would be caught in the crossfire.

This is imperialist, fascist, assassin, genocidal, the empire and Israel firing on the people of Palestine and Lebanon. That is what happened. And now we hear, "We're suffering because we see homes destroyed.'

The president of the United States came to talk to the peoples -- to the peoples of the world. He came to say -- I brought some documents with me, because this morning I was reading some statements, and I see that he talked to the people of Afghanistan, the people of Lebanon, the people of Iran. And he addressed all these peoples directly.

And you can wonder, just as the president of the United States addresses those peoples of the world, what would those peoples of the world tell him if they were given the floor? What would they have to say?

And I think I have some inkling of what the peoples of the south, the oppressed people think. They would say, "Yankee imperialist, go home." I think that is what those people would say if they were given the microphone and if they could speak with one voice to the American imperialists.

And that is why, Madam President, my colleagues, my friends, last year we came here to this same hall as we have been doing for the past eight years, and we said something that has now been confirmed -- fully, fully confirmed.

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): I don't think anybody in this room could defend the system. Let's accept -- let's be honest. The U.N. system, born after the Second World War, collapsed. It's worthless.

Oh, yes, it's good to bring us together once a year, see each other, make statements and prepare all kinds of long documents, and listen to good speeches, like Abel's (ph) yesterday, or President Mullah's (ph). Yes, it's good for that.

And there are a lot of speeches, and we've heard lots from the president of Sri Lanka, for instance, and the president of Chile.

But we, the assembly, have been turned into a merely deliberative organ. We have no power, no power to make any impact on the terrible situation in the world. And that is why Venezuela once again proposes, here, today, 20 September, that we re-establish the United Nations.

Last year, Madam, we made four modest proposals that we felt to be crucially important. We have to assume the responsibility our heads of state, our ambassadors, our representatives, and we have to discuss it.

The first is expansion, and Mullah (ph) talked about this yesterday right here. The Security Council, both as it has permanent and non-permanent categories, (inaudible) developing countries and LDCs must be given access as new permanent members. That's step one.

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): Second, effective methods to address and resolve world conflicts, transparent decisions.

Point three, the immediate suppression -- and that is something everyone's calling for -- of the anti-democratic mechanism known as the veto, the veto on decisions of the Security Council.

Let me give you a recent example. The immoral veto of the United States allowed the Israelis, with impunity, to destroy Lebanon. Right in front of all of us as we stood there watching, a resolution in the council was prevented.

Fourthly, we have to strengthen, as we've always said, the role and the powers of the secretary general of the United Nations.

Yesterday, the secretary general practically gave us his speech of farewell. And he recognized that over the last 10 years, things have just gotten more complicated; hunger, poverty, violence, human rights violations have just worsened. That is the tremendous consequence of the collapse of the United Nations system and American hegemonistic pretensions.

Madam, Venezuela a few years ago decided to wage this battle within the United Nations by recognizing the United Nations, as members of it that we are, and lending it our voice, our thinking.

Our voice is an independent voice to represent the dignity and the search for peace and the reformulation of the international system; to denounce persecution and aggression of hegemonistic forces on the planet.

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): This is how Venezuela has presented itself. Bolivar's home has sought a nonpermanent seat on the Security Council.

Let's see. Well, there's been an open attack by the U.S. government, an immoral attack, to try and prevent Venezuela from being freely elected to a post in the Security Council.

The imperium is afraid of truth, is afraid of independent voices. It calls us extremists, but they are the extremists.

And I would like to thank all the countries that have kindly announced their support for Venezuela, even though the ballot is a secret one and there's no need to announce things.

But since the imperium has attacked, openly, they strengthened the convictions of many countries. And their support strengthens us.

Mercosur, as a bloc, has expressed its support, our brothers in Mercosur. Venezuela, with Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay, is a full member of Mercosur.

And many other Latin American countries, CARICOM, Bolivia have expressed their support for Venezuela. The Arab League, the full Arab League has voiced its support. And I am immensely grateful to the Arab world, to our Arab brothers, our Caribbean brothers, the African Union. Almost all of Africa has expressed its support for Venezuela and countries such as Russia or China and many others.

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): I thank you all warmly on behalf of Venezuela, on behalf of our people, and on behalf of the truth, because Venezuela, with a seat on the Security Council, will be expressing not only Venezuela's thoughts, but it will also be the voice of all the peoples of the world, and we will defend dignity and truth.

Over and above all of this, Madam President, I think there are reasons to be optimistic. A poet would have said "helplessly optimistic," because over and above the wars and the bombs and the aggressive and the preventive war and the destruction of entire peoples, one can see that a new era is dawning.

As Sylvia Rodriguez (ph) says, the era is giving birth to a heart. There are alternative ways of thinking. There are young people who think differently. And this has already been seen within the space of a mere decade. It was shown that the end of history was a totally false assumption, and the same was shown about Pax Americana and the establishment of the capitalist neo-liberal world. It has been shown, this system, to generate mere poverty. Who believes in it now?

What we now have to do is define the future of the world. Dawn is breaking out all over. You can see it in Africa and Europe and Latin America and Oceanea. I want to emphasize that optimistic vision.
We have to strengthen ourselves, our will to do battle, our awareness. We have to build a new and better world.

Venezuela joins that struggle, and that's why we are threatened. The U.S. has already planned, financed and set in motion a coup in Venezuela, and it continues to support coup attempts in Venezuela and elsewhere.

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): President Michelle Bachelet reminded us just a moment ago of the horrendous assassination of the former foreign minister, Orlando Letelier.

And I would just add one thing: Those who perpetrated this crime are free. And that other event where an American citizen also died were American themselves. They were CIA killers, terrorists.

And we must recall in this room that in just a few days there will be another anniversary. Thirty years will have passed from this other horrendous terrorist attack on the Cuban plane, where 73 innocents died, a Cubana de Aviacion airliner.

And where is the biggest terrorist of this continent who took the responsibility for blowing up the plane? He spent a few years in jail in Venezuela. Thanks to CIA and then government officials, he was allowed to escape, and he lives here in this country, protected by the government.

And he was convicted. He has confessed to his crime. But the U.S. government has double standards. It protects terrorism when it wants to.

And this is to say that Venezuela is fully committed to combating terrorism and violence. And we are one of the people who are fighting for peace.

Luis Posada Carriles is the name of that terrorist who is protected here. And other tremendously corrupt people who escaped from Venezuela are also living here under protection: a group that bombed various embassies, that assassinated people during the coup. They kidnapped me and they were going to kill me, but I think God reached down and our people came out into the streets and the army was too, and so I'm here today.

But these people who led that coup are here today in this country protected by the American government. And I accuse the American government of protecting terrorists and of having a completely cynical discourse.

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): We mentioned Cuba. Yes, we were just there a few days ago. We just came from there happily.

And there you see another era born. The Summit of the 15, the Summit of the Nonaligned, adopted a historic resolution. This is the outcome document. Don't worry, I'm not going to read it.

But you have a whole set of resolutions here that were adopted after open debate in a transparent matter -- more than 50 heads of state. Havana was the capital of the south for a few weeks, and we have now launched, once again, the group of the nonaligned with new momentum.

And if there is anything I could ask all of you here, my companions, my brothers and sisters, it is to please lend your good will to lend momentum to the Nonaligned Movement for the birth of the new era, to prevent hegemony and prevent further advances of imperialism.

And as you know, Fidel Castro is the president of the nonaligned for the next three years, and we can trust him to lead the charge very efficiently.

Unfortunately they thought, "Oh, Fidel was going to die." But they're going to be disappointed because he didn't. And he's not only alive, he's back in his green fatigues, and he's now presiding the nonaligned.

So, my dear colleagues, Madam President, a new, strong movement has been born, a movement of the south. We are men and women of the south.

With this document, with these ideas, with these criticisms, I'm now closing my file. I'm taking the book with me. And, don't forget, I'm recommending it very warmly and very humbly to all of you.

CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): We want ideas to save our planet, to save the planet from the imperialist threat. And hopefully in this very century, in not too long a time, we will see this, we will see this new era, and for our children and our grandchildren a world of peace based on the fundamental principles of the United Nations, but a renewed United Nations.

And maybe we have to change location. Maybe we have to put the United Nations somewhere else; maybe a city of the south. We've proposed Venezuela.

You know that my personal doctor had to stay in the plane. The chief of security had to be left in a locked plane. Neither of these gentlemen was allowed to arrive and attend the U.N. meeting. This is another abuse and another abuse of power on the part of the Devil. It smells of sulfur here, but God is with us and I embrace you all.

May God bless us all. Good day to you.

(APPLAUSE)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Exiled in America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
83. No. He is also crazy. Just because he says things I agree with...
..doesn't mean I think he is a hero without any screws loose, and certainly doesn't mean I would trust him any farther (further?) than I could through him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dpbrown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
84. Bush lowered the standard

Bush is a sociopathic lout and a bully.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
85. Remember when Arafat insisted on being armed during his first UN visit?
Chavez very much reminds me of Arafat -- he's enjoying his 15 minutes of fame and will not waste a single second by being boring.

A friend of mine summed up Arafat (and Chavez) quite nicely: "If he lived in the US, Arafat would be driving an 18-wheeler."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
86. No
He should have gone after him for torture and so on. Calling him Satan was kinda senseless. It gives him too much credit. Wimpy little punk who jerks off while watching movies of people he ordered killed dying and people he ordered tortured screaming is more accurate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
88. No. He is a hero for many other reasons. (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
yowzayowzayowza Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
89. If he hadn't, they would've ignored 'em.
Counter political-theatre if you will?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
91. Only if telling the truth in a place full of liars is heroic
then yes he most certainly is heroic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
92. I'm with Bill Clinton; it was not diplomatic talk & it's not the issue
Elecion 06, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, poverty---these are more important. Also said he thinks Hil would be a great president.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
93. Not At All. In Fact He Stooped To His Level Rather Than Holding His Head
up high. If he truly was as good of a leader as some want to claim than I think he would've been smarter in his presentation. He very easily could've gotten the same message across without having to resort to childish tactics and taunts. If it's one thing I can't stand, it is political leaders who resort to personal childishness rather than speaking eloquently, professionally, maturely and with integrity. That's why I love hearing John Kerry or Barbara Boxer speak. But I couldn't imagine either of the latter resorting to such childish taunts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
95. Chavez said what a lot of Americans are thinking
AND he's getting media coverage, which would never have happened with a more "balanced" and carefully-worded (i.e. timid) statement.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
96. Good point
We should be more impressed if, instead of calling Bush the Devil, he just rattled off a litany of Bush's offenses.

The Devil? Good grief, what on earth does that mean anyway? If Hitler comparisons are out of line, then a mythological embodiment of cosmic evil is, too.

Should Bush stand trial for war crimes? Yes, absolutely. You don't have to be Hilter or the Devil to be that bad.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
97. No, UN speeches should be for lies, not truth. Here's how it's done!
2002: President's Remarks at the United Nations General Assembly

...From 1991 to 1995, the Iraqi regime said it had no biological weapons. After a senior official in its weapons program defected and exposed this lie, the regime admitted to producing tens of thousands of liters of anthrax and other deadly biological agents for use with Scud warheads, aerial bombs, and aircraft spray tanks. U.N. inspectors believe Iraq has produced two to four times the amount of biological agents it declared, and has failed to account for more than three metric tons of material that could be used to produce biological weapons. Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons.

United Nations' inspections also revealed that Iraq likely maintains stockpiles of VX, mustard and other chemical agents, and that the regime is rebuilding and expanding facilities capable of producing chemical weapons.

... Today, Iraq continues to withhold important information about its nuclear program -- weapons design, procurement logs, experiment data, an accounting of nuclear materials and documentation of foreign assistance. Iraq employs capable nuclear scientists and technicians. It retains physical infrastructure needed to build a nuclear weapon. Iraq has made several attempts to buy high-strength aluminum tubes used to enrich uranium for a nuclear weapon. Should Iraq acquire fissile material, it would be able to build a nuclear weapon within a year. And Iraq's state-controlled media has reported numerous meetings between Saddam Hussein and his nuclear scientists, leaving little doubt about his continued appetite for these weapons.

Iraq also possesses a force of Scud-type missiles with ranges beyond the 150 kilometers permitted by the U.N. Work at testing and production facilities shows that Iraq is building more long-range missiles that it can inflict mass death throughout the region.

...But Saddam Hussein has defied all these efforts and continues to develop weapons of mass destruction

...Free societies do not intimidate through cruelty and conquest, and open societies do not threaten the world with mass murder.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/09/2002091...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
98. It was freaking hilarious.

No, he isn't a "hero" for saying it, but he *was* funny. Perhaps it wasn't diplomatic, but it was no less so than Bush's disingenuous speech.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
101. He's just giving him a dose of his own medicine
Republicans can dish it out, but can't take it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 03:55 AM
Response to Original message
102. Not really an act of courage--
--to say what 90% of the world agrees with. Damned funny though!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
farmboxer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 04:21 AM
Response to Original message
103. It's time someone tells the truth!
Take a look at Bush's record. What else can he be called? He is cruel!

Why are Democrats so afraid to say anything to offend Bush? Rove has done much worse that Chavez has ever done!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 04:26 AM
Response to Original message
104. It's what he said between the names that is important because
this is how the world sees the US right now. And instead of taking notice, people are focused on defending the indefensible Mr. Bush.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 05:06 AM
Response to Original message
105. Not a hero but
What we Dems need to hammer on is that "it's come to this". The world opinion of America has so fallen that another leader felt free to come here and tell the world this about our "leader". I really don't think anyone would do such a thing prior to Little Boots.

So yes, loudly declare Chavez a "bad guy" for calling Bush names (aka "acting like Bush") but take a good look at what it really means.

Julie
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-24-06 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #105
106. I wish they would do just what you say.
That is so on the money, Julie.

:toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NotGivingUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-24-06 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
107. He said a lot more than just call bush names...let's concentrate
on that!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Jul 23rd 2019, 04:10 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC