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huskerlaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 12:39 PM
Original message
Church Audited for "Political" Sermon--More Info
Edited on Thu Sep-21-06 12:59 PM by huskerlaw
There was a post in GD a few days ago about a church in Pasadena that was being audited by the IRS because of an October 31, 2004 sermon which the IRS claims was political. I didn't hear it myself, but I'm told it was a discussion about what God would say to the candidates, Kerry and Bush, about their stances on many things, including Iraq. From what I've heard, the sermon was critical of both candidates, but...unsurprisingly...was more critical of Bush.

I've recently begun attending that church and I'm on their email list. Here's their official press release:

The Internal Revenue Service summoned All Saints Church of Pasadena and its rector, the Rev. Ed Bacon, on Friday to appear before an officer of the IRS, renewing its examination of All Saints Church after ten months of silence. On July 24, the agency unexpectedly sent the Pasadena church a list of 13 questions that probed deeply into its core religious practices. All Saints responded by raising both substantive and procedural concerns, and requested that the Agency clarify the intentions of the examination, becuase of its wide-ranging First Amendment implications. Because of All Saints' concerns regarding both the substantive nature and the procedural defects of this examination, it asked the IRS to reconsider its questions and reissue the Information Document Request in the form of an Administrative Summons, which was delivered Friday morning. It listed 17 detailed requirements for information, documents and testimony regarding All Saints' relationship with the Rev. George Regas, the guest preacher who delivered the sermon in question, and all expenditures involved in having the sermon given on Sunday, October 31, 2004. Though the IRS tailored its inquiry, now recast as an administration summons, it still delves into a constitutionally protected are: the language and practices of All Saints' worship service.

The summons also probes into the church's practices regarding its selection process for guest preachers, and what if any instructions or guidelines are given to guest preachers by the church, clearly an intrusion into the church's free exercise of religion. These latest inquiries underscore the church's concerns about IRS compliance with the procedural safeguards set forth in the Internal Revenue Code to protect churches from unnecessary and intrusive audits.

The timing of the renewed investigation also raises concerns that it may reflect an attempt to chill the Church's discussions of fundamental religious issues with policy implications before the mid-term elections, and in a way that intrudes into core religious practice.

Much more here: http://www.allsaints-pas.org/pdf/IRS%202%20Press%20Release%200915.pdf

Update: There's even more info, including text of the sermon, at the church's website: http://www.allsaints-pas.org/all_saints_church.htm
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Der Blaue Engel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. Why aren't the churches (and entire denominations)
that instructed their congregations to vote for Bush not being investigated? I guess it's only "political" when you disagree with the cabal.
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huskerlaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Exactly.
This is a very progressive church, with a large congregation. They're obviously being targeted because of their political views and the timing is more than a little suspect.
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RevCheesehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thanks for the update and link.
When I preach on social justice issues, I very carefully avoid using names of politicians and parties. I often say "some government leaders", "certain politicians", or "fundamentalist politicians". The point is made without naming names.

I also make it clear that I'm illustrating the text, and not using the scripture to prove a point I want to make. First rule of Preaching 101: Let the text speak to YOU, the preacher, then the congregation. If it leads you in that direction, then go with it. If not, then save your comments for another time.

I hope you're enjoying your new congregation! :hi:
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huskerlaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. You're welcome.
I know it's a fine line...or at least, it would be if it were applied fairly. But when those conservative mega-churches can outright tell their congregations who to vote for and not get questioned... :grr:

As I said, I didn't hear this sermon and I've never heard this preacher either, since he was a guest that week. But if the sermons that I have heard are any indication, they do indeed let the scripture make the point for them. Given how completely un-Christian the Bush cabal are, it's not entirely difficult to say it without, you know, actually saying it.

I am enjoying it very much, though I haven't been able to attend regularly all summer. I intend to get back to going every week this winter.
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huskerlaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. FYI...
I just realized that the church's website has text of the sermon in question. http://www.allsaints-pas.org/all_saints_church.htm
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. Will they be auditing the Jesus camp for having a ...
cardboard cutout of Bush?
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. I think they can beat this one
but it shows how much power a sour conservative in a congregation can wield.

For one thing, everything was tied to the words in the gospels. For another, it doesn't sound like he said "vote for Kerry if you want to go to heaven." For a third, he didn't pass out Kerry's campaign literature, nor did he have it set up in the vestibule, a violation many wingnut churches commit.

I'm just surprised it's gone this far. Generally, the IRS would note the above and discard the complaint.
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huskerlaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. You honestly think
this is the work of one pissed off member of the congregation?

I'm not the least bit surprised it's gone this far. It's a political piss-play. The IRS is going after them because they're a vibrant, effective, progressive church. If that weren't the case then Focus on the Family and its ilk would have been put out of business a long time ago.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
9. "was more critical of Bush."
Duhhhh. Any guess why they are being investigated instead of Fallwell or Dobson?
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huskerlaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Do we really need to guess?
I think not, unfortunately.
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Wilber_Stool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
11. Let me know when they pass around the plate.
I've got ten bucks for them.
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huskerlaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I believe they pass it around a couple of times
every Sunday. :)

:hi:
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