Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

There is more freedom of speech in Venezuela than in the US

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
Flanker Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 12:30 PM
Original message
There is more freedom of speech in Venezuela than in the US
I have lived on the latter and currently live in the former, and find the accusations to be the real caricature, when most are either lying (Bolton) or simply don't know. Anyone is welcome to find out instead of linking to HRW articles that are themselves foreign to reality. I will add this post to my journal in case anybody wants to link to it.


Jailed Journalists

There are 0 jailed journalists in Venezuela http://www.cpj.org/attacks05/pages05/imprison_05.html a few stood trial but none were jailed, the only one that may go to jail if caught is Patricia Poleo and indeed the only one to flee the country (currently in the states) she is wanted for being an intellectual mastermind of the Danilo Anderson murder though.

There are four main private TV channels over the airwaves:

Globovision http://www.globovision.com/index.php If I recall the only 24 hour news channel that is broad casted (ie using public airwaves) in the world, they are DEEPLY opposed to Chavez and his government, Fox News does not hold a candle to it, if you want to see it for yourself there is a video link (in spanish obviously), but you may have to pay a fee, if you do watch prime time programing.

RCTV http://www.rctv.net / More of a variety channel, its newscasts and opinion is DEEPLY opposed to the government, They normally appear in the morning or later at night, they have a free video cast, its owner Marciel Granier is also a vocal Chavez critic.

Venevision http://www.venevision.net / Used to be like the above, but they are a bit more moderate nowadays (moderate is defined by just showing the other side, it is that bad) Mostly because its owner Cisneros has more or less accepted his lack of real power, and he has plenty of other business interests in the country.

Televen http://www.venevision.net / Another variety channel, similar to Venevision, they are more moderate because the government advertises on it or at least that is a theory, extremists were also fired from their time slots, but it had more to do with lower ratings than anything else, The more extremist the channel the lower the ratings it gets, and they keep getting lower.

There are three public TV Channels over the airwaves + Telesur (cable only I think)

VTV: http://www.vtv.gov.ve / The original public Channel, there are plans to turn it into a 24 hour news channel, today it is closer in style to PBS culture, variety, news, opinion. Of course it is openly ideological to Chavez on opinion programing. it has a video link.

Vive: www.vive.gob.ve / a new public channel, mostly for political documentaries, don't watch it much

ANTV: www.antv.gob.ve / C-Span clone, controlled by the Legislature.

Radio

There are far too many to show them all, so I will go with the two major ones:

Union Radio http://www.unionradio.com.ve / Privately owned, the only one that has a direct equivalent in the states, it is
right wing talk radio, same extremism, same ethical standards, though with musical intermissions, http://200.74.220.116:8080/ramgen/encoder/noticias.rm here is an audio link (spanish) recommend the afternoons. A recent conspiracy theory two of their talking heads posited yesterday was that VTV digitally added the applauses to Chavez speech... that type of irrationality.

RNV http://www.rnv.gov.ve/noticias / Similar to VTV but on radio, has an audio link.

Print

Now it gets easier because a few of them can be easily read online and translated to with google or altavista.

El Universal www.eud.com Strong opposition newspaper, check out their opinion pieces in particular http://opinion.eluniversal.com / they also have an english version but that never makes the print edition so why bother.

El Nacional http://el-nacional.com / Another opposition newspaper, articles can be read by paid subscription

Tal Cual http://www.talcualdigital.com / Another strong Chavez critic, its editor and star writer attempted a campaign for the presidency but failed to get more than 3% in the press polls, he now backs the unity opposition candidate, the only credit he gets is that on occasion he blisters the opposition as well. Also has paid subscription.

Panorama www.panodi.com Regional Zulia paper and perhaps the most sympathetic to Chavez in all of the privately owned media. free but lousy archives.

Ultimas Noticias http://www.ultimasnoticias.com.ve / The most neutral media in the country and most sold newspaper, displacing both El Universal and Nacional during this political saga. paid subscription.

There are plenty more opposition papers but I have not read them in detail you can find the rest here: http://www.prensaescrita.com/america/venezuela.php in particular el mundo, nuevo pais, notitarde, etc. all opposition papers.

Internet

Common citizens also have their say and it generally more radicalized

Noticiero Digital www.noticierodigital.com on the surface it si an opinion aggregator (visually elegant as well, check out their opinion pieces on the right) but its forums http://www.noticierodigital.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=1... is a freerpublic like clone, only more extreme (there is the occasional Pinochet appreciation thread). Its only saving grace is that anyone can post regardless of political affiliation, just that there are far fewer Chavistas.

aporrea http://aporrea.org / The other side of the coin. Less extreme because they are less angry.

A political cartoons can also bridge the language divide published in Tal Cual.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. Nice job!
I wish WE had three public TV stations!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yes and Bolton seems to think "Speakers Corner" is in Central Park
rather than in Hyde Park, London. Responding to comments by Hugo Chavez, John Bolton said:

Mr Chvez could openly say what he wanted in Central Park, he added: "Too bad President Chvez doesn't extend the same freedom of speech and the press to the people of Venezuela. That's my comment on his speech."

Sadly, he is once again incorrect. The Republican Mayors of NYC, both Giuliani and Bloomberg, routinely deny permit requests for Central Park insisting that political rallies "would hurt the grass." Any gathering of more than 20 people requires a permit. They gave permits to Disney to promote "Pocohontas" and to Christo to promote himself and cash in on Central Park. But they insist that the grass is especially sensitive to free speech.

More accurately Bolton could have said that Chavez could "openly" say what he wanted in a permit-approved, designated free speech zone far away from media and the public.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Count Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
34. Free speech sensitive grass - that's a classic! Thanks for this!
I wonder how long are they going to coast on the old images of the US freedoms even as they transform the country into the 3rd Reich...For bush to have even had the gall to speak to the UN about human rights...boggles the mind!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. The ignorance of US emissaries is astounding
I would think bolton should hide his head in shame at speaking such nonsense. There was an old saying when I grew up "It is sometimes better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt". Bolton removes all doubt..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CBGLuthier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. It is not ignorance
It is lies.

The truth does not matter to them.

They will be quoted and their lies paraded as truth for the masses.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
27. Bingo
they are masters of impression management.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Flanker Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. It is not so much Bolton
But how easy the propaganda spreads around the country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
plasticsundance Donating Member (786 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. Interesting video ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
plasticsundance Donating Member (786 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. A letter to the Washignton Post
Mr. Jackson Diehl:

It's impossible to believe that a journalist at a newspaper as important as
the Washington Post is so badly informed as you appear to be in your article
"Chavez's Censorship: Where Disrespect Can Land You in Jail," published
March 28.

You can believe, if you wish, that Venezuela used to be "the most prosperous
and stable democracy in Latin America" (with 80% of the population in
extreme poverty, civil strife, and military uprisings), put you can't write,
without lying, that in Venezuela, journalists are persecuted and the press
is censored, because there isn't a single case that supports what you say.

You say the truth when you affirm that "some newspapers and television
stations openly sided with attempts to oust the president via coup, strike
or a national referendum." Before being Minister of Information and
Communication, I worked as news director for RCTV, an important private TV
station in Venezuela. Immediately after the coup of April 2002 against
President Hugo Chavez, when hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans took to the
streets demanding the return of their elected president, RCTV and other
private channels decided not to report on this civil uprising, preferring to
broadcast cartoons and old movies. Since I couldn't bring myself to
participate in this censorship, I resigned.

As journalist Duncan Campbell reported for the (London) Guardian, "The five
principal TV channels gave publicity spots to those who convened the
demonstrations that supported the coup." Moreover, the principal media
owners in Venezuela assured Dictator Carmona, "We can't guarantee the army's
loyalty, but we can promise the media's support" (see "Coup and
Counter-Coup," The Economist Global Agenda, April 16, 2002).

The private media promoted all of the campaigns to discredit President
Chavez and his policies. For example, during the petroleum industry sabotage
of Christmas 2002-2003, more than 13,000 political propaganda advertisements
were broadcast in a two month period in order to "animate an economically
devastating and socially destabilizing general strike directed at
overthrowing Chavez. (These ads) energetically promoted opposition leaders,
while at the same time defaming the President and ignoring news that favored
him" (see COHA Investigation Memorandum. The Venezuelan Media: More Than
Words in Play," Council on Hemispheric Affairs, Press Memorandum 03.18,
April 30, 2003). However, despite all this, the openly conspiratorial media
were not persecuted, neither then, nor now.

You are lying to your readers, Mister Diehl, when you say, "Beginning this
month journalists or other independent activists accused by the government
of the sort of offenses alleged by Izarra can be jailed without due process
and sentenced to up to 30 years," because you are confusing the law that
protects children from obscenity in the broadcast media with the laws on
national security and the President's security, which are more strict in the
United States.

US Code, Title 18, Section 871, "Threats against the President and
presidential successors," prohibits any offense or threat made against the
President of the United States. Examples include July 2, 1996, when two
people were arrested by the secret service for shouting insults at President
Clinton ("You suck and those boys died...") on the occasion of an attack
against a military installation in Saudi Arabia in which 19 US soldiers
died; or a minister who was arrested for saying "God will hold you to
account" to President Clinton, concerning his decision not to prohibit a
certain kind of abortion.

US Code, Title 18, Section 1752(a)(1)(ii) declares that it is a crime to
intentionally enter a restricted zone during a presidential visit, and it
has been used to arrest more than 1,800 demonstrators during the Republican
Convention in August of 2004, despite the fact that the demonstrators were
several blocks from President Bush's location; it was also used to arrest a
gentleman for carrying a sign against war on October 24, 2002, during Bush's
visit to Ohio; also arrested was a dead soldier's mother for wearing an
anti-war t-shirt during a speech by First Lady Laura Bush in New Jersey; and
a couple in West Virginia was arrested for wearing anti-Bush t-shirts during
a rally.

You know, Mister Diehl, that the Patriot Act together with an Executive
Order give President Bush the power to determine when a person represents a
threat to the United States. If the person is a US citizen, he can be
detained for an indefinite length of time without rights, be declared an
enemy of the state, and even lose his citizenship. If the person is not a US
citizen, he can be detained without any rights and be brought before a
secret military tribunal without anyone, not even his family members,
finding out. If a foreigner in the US says that "Bush is the Devil," he can
be imprisoned and end up in Guantanamo.

Your interest in having people believe that in Venezuela, journalists are
threatened like foreign agents, is understandable due to the number of
agents that act as journalists, in both Venezuela and the US, to diffuse
opinions concocted by the US State Department:

Declassified documents from the State Department (from the NGO National
Security Archives) concerning the US Office of Public Diplomacy, managed by
Otto Reich during the 1970's, demonstrate that the Washington Post was one
of the newspapers used by the US government to spread its black propaganda
against the Sandanista government. Washington Post journalist Marcela
Sanchez publicly stated that in the months before the August 2004
presidential referendum, in which President Chavez was reaffirmed, (Roger)
Noriega and others in the State Department visited the Washington Post's
editorial board in order to influence its reporting on that topic.

Or have you forgotten, Mister Diehl, that journalist Maggie Gallagher, who
collaborated with the Washington Post, was accused of accepting money in
exchange for supporting one of President Bush's proposed Constitutional
Amendments?

I can't imagine, Mister Diehl, how you came up with the terms "without due
process" and "summarily," which you repeat in order to give the false
impression of a dictatorial Venezuela that only exists in your imagination
and in that crazy quilt of scraps that is your article. Surely, it will
sound "ridiculous" to you, but now and for the first time in history, the
press is more free in Venezuela than in the United States. Is that what
bothers you, Mister Diehl?

It is not President Chavez' fault that the Bush administration can control
the globalized world with the same methods and the same men as in the 1970s.
It's not my fault if the Washington Post of Katherine Graham ... which was
an example for the world in the Watergate case ... now acts as if it had
been bought by the Nixon Family.

Instead of your incomplete, cartoonish, and malicious portrait of Venezuelan
media and laws, I would have preferred to see, from a respectable
"independent newspaper," a balanced analysis of our informative landscape.
But I think that it's more likely that we'll find out, in the not-so-distant
future, that you too, Mister Diehl, receive money from the State Department.

Andres Izarra
Minister of Communication and Information

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Liberal Dose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. That's the best thing I've read all day. Thank you.
:applause: :yourock: :woohoo:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
29. Venezuela used to be the most prosperous country in SA?
Maybe in the Spanish colonial period, but not any time recently.

Jackson Diehl should have stuck to sports writing, which is what he did when was on the staff of the Yale Daily News.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
QuestionAll... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
8. kickn'recco
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
10. Watch THIS video!
http://www.linktv.org/pages/selectorPop.php4?caller=htt...

In the middle of this video, you will see Palast interview the leader of the Chavez opposition group who actively supported the Coup Attempt in 2002. He is currently FREE (though charges have been filed), working out of his office in Caracass, and giving TV interviews.
Doesn't look like HIS Free Speech rights have been supressed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
25. thanks for the link!
Do you know when this was made?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
11. K and R ! ! ! ! ! ! !
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
12. Bet you also could wear any T-shirt you want without getting arrested
as we do here in the US.

Thanks for the very informative post Flanker. Bookmarked for future reference.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Flanker Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. More or less if you are talking specifically about assasination
I have heard of plenty that want Chavez killed and they express themselves openly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. No, not talking about assassination, just peace sign t-shirts
So Venezuela allows Chavez assassination t-shirts, while one gets carted off to jail in the US for wearing a No War/Peace t-shirt.

No wonder Bolton feels Venezuela doesn't have free speech since free speech in Venezuela looks alot different than it does here in the US.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #16
33. "Common citizens also have their say ..."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheModernTerrorist Donating Member (645 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. yeah
they're called "capitalists"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
13. Anti-Chavez posters will avoid this thread like the plague.
Edited on Thu Sep-21-06 02:22 PM by Rex
Stop bringing reality into the equation!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. The "Chavez Bash Brigade" operates in the wee hours of the a.m..
:hide: :hide: :hide:They employ the cockroach approach.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
15. What we have here is a bunch of Pravda clones.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
texasleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
18. What freedoms do you currently enjoy that you did not have in the US?
btw, I've been to Venezuela several times before and during Chavez.

;-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. What freedoms? - The freedom to leagally protest have deminished!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
19. i hope you don't mind that i posted this on yahoo..
excellent work!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Flanker Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Sure no problem
nm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
23. Apprently its not all peaches and cream according to your first source
http://www.cpj.org/regions_06/americas_06/americas_06.h...

Columnist shot to death in front of home
Versin en espaol
Verso em portugus
NEWS ALERT
August 29, 2006

Chvez threatens critical private broadcasters
Versin en espaol
Verso em portugus
NEWS ALERT
June 15, 2006

State legislature calls for eviction of critical newspaper
Versin en espaol
Verso em portugus
NEWS ALERT
May 25, 2006

Journalist convicted of criminal defamation
Versin en espaol
Verso em portugus
NEWS ALERT
May 5, 2006

Journalist released on parole
CASE
April 12, 2006

Newspaper director convicted on defamation, slander charges
CASE
April 11, 2006

Defamation charges brought against columnist
CASE
April 8, 2006

Photographer gunned down near anti-crime protest
Versin en espaol
Verso em portugus
NEWS ALERT
April 6, 2006

Bomb attack and threats against newspaper
Versin en espaol
Verso em portugus
NEWS ALERT
March 10, 2006

Journalist arrested at TV station
Versin en espaol
Verso em portugus
NEWS ALERT
March 6, 2006

Judge issues gag order in high-profile murder case
Versin en espaol
Verso em portugus
NEWS ALERT
January 25, 2006

CPJ deplores attempt to censor media coverage of murder case
Versin en espaol
Verso em portugus
NEWS ALERT
January 20, 2006


Here's the US

Video blogger ordered back to jail
NEWS ALERT
September 20, 2006

Blogger freed after 30 days in jail; case still looms
NEWS ALERT
September 1, 2006

Judge jails freelancer over videotape
NEWS ALERT
August 2, 2006

Author Suskind alleges Afghan bombing of Al-Jazeera was deliberate

NEWS ALERT
June 21, 2006

Concerns raised as FBI agents use pepper spray on reporters
NEWS ALERT
March 27, 2006

CPJ alarmed by attacks on Chinese journalists in the U.S.
NEWS ALERT
February 23, 2006
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Flanker Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. None disprove my statement
There are no jailed journalist since all the convictions I know of were pardoned, a few were killed but they note that it was not by the hand of the government, mostly rampant crime.

The US had 5 journalists jailed in 2005 and Venezuela had 0 that is pretty much evident which is worse.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Flanker Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Add another 2 journalists
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
26. Kick for the night crowd...
...and recommended.

These lies are perpetrated because our government knows how many Americans embrace ignorance like water seeks the path of least resistance.

Chavez isn't the perfect angel. But he's done a lot for his country instead of playing ball with big-oil. For that, they'll try to thwart the good he's accomplished.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 03:52 AM
Response to Original message
30. Kick!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 06:35 AM
Response to Original message
31. Wow! Actual information!
Much better than hysterical hyperbole. Thank you. :toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
threadkillaz Donating Member (453 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 06:46 AM
Response to Original message
32. Versus 5..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
35. Are there jailed journalists in the US?
There are many thousands of media outlets in the US. I wonder why you state Venezuela has "more" freedom.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. There is corporate media consolidation in the US
Most of the media where most people get most of their information are owned by, and thus beholden to large corporate interests - and they are ideologically identical to the anti-Chavez corporate media in Venezuela.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Flanker Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. There are 5 journalists in detention
4 in Iraq and 1 in Guantanamo, also there are more media, most of them local grassroots, but those are the big ones.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Keepontruking Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
38. Dictator Bush
No we have him here remember!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  There is a
difference People  We have all these  Declarartions....like
Declaration of Independence...several have died defending
it...whoops doesn't matter anymore under Bush ,  Geneva
convention, Whoops doesn't matter anymore.....National
security in your homes...whoops doesn't matter anymore
....WHY???????????????DICTATOR BUSH   and what HAVE YOU AND I
DONE ABOUT IT..oh yeah  Chatted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Dec 10th 2019, 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC