Democrats Are Silent On Torture of Detainees?? wtf?

[leftchick]

This is bullshit! Who is going to bring up the torture techniques used? Not the repukes! Who is going to bring up the fact that hundreds of innocent people have been caught up in the terror dragnet and TORTURED? Not the repukes!

There will be no substantive discussion about the detainee abuse by the US at GITMO and at secret locations around the world unless the Democrats bring up many important issues that will be ignored by the repukes!

This Is NO Time for the Democrats to sit on the sideline! Fuck politics! How about bringing back a little humanity and dignity for this country???

:grr:


Democrats Sit Out Detainee Debate


WASHINGTON - Congressional Democrats are sitting out an explosive debate on how to treat the nation's most dangerous terrorism suspects, bypassing a chance to challenge President Bush on a proposal that has infuriated international law experts and human rights groups.

<snip>
Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said Wednesday that Democrats were "on the sidelines watching the catfights" among Republicans on terrorism legislation. He said they had little choice until the GOP settled on its position.

Democrats may attempt to amend the detainee legislation should it reach the floor of the House or Senate, and they say they will defend their record on national security. But it is unlikely party leaders will make much noise this election season to ensure terror suspects are afforded legal rights.

Influencing their strategy are memories of the 2002 defeat of Sen. Max Cleland, D-Ga., who was ousted by Republican Saxby Chambliss following a TV ad campaign that attacked Cleland's patriotism. Cleland, a severely wounded Vietnam veteran, had voted against creating the Homeland Security Department.

"Max Cleland - having lost three limbs in Vietnam - thought the voters in Georgia wouldn't fall for" such charges, the Senate's No. 2 Democrat, Richard Durbin, said Wednesday. "They did and he lost his Senate seat. We're not going to make that same mistake."

:argh:


http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/28-09212006-716038.html

[ClassWarrior]

1. Are you relying exclusively on the Corporate Media for your info?

Just curious.

NGU.

[leftchick]

3. Reid said they have little choice

<snip>

Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said Wednesday that Democrats were "on the sidelines watching the catfights" among Republicans on terrorism legislation. He said they had little choice until the GOP settled on its position.

:eyes:

[ClassWarrior]

4. You didn't answer my question.

NGU.

[leftchick]

6. no

it is pretty obvious what is NOT happening and NO, I am not getting all of my information from the corporate media. Where do you get the impression the Senate Democrats are doing something about this other than sitting on the sidelines? I would love to see it if true.


Here is a non-mainstream source for you...http://peaceandjustice.org/article.php?story=2006091809412238&mode=print

thank you God for these 24 Dems (out of how many again?)....

The most visible House dissent has come from a group of twenty-four Democrats led by Ed Markey of Massachusetts, who wrote, "We are opposed to any changes in the War Crimes Act that would have the effect of undermining the proscriptions against torture or other cruel or degrading treatment contained in the Geneva Conventions and the Convention Against Torture."

<snip>

Republican support for a law that countenances torture, prisoner abuse and repudiation of the Constitution, the Supreme Court and the Geneva Conventions could provide an important issue for Democratic Congressional candidates. But Democratic House candidates can't criticize Republicans if they are supporting Bush's legislation themselves - as a majority of Democrats on the House Armed Services Committee have done. A strong Democratic position against the President's bill now could be a real boost for Democratic House candidates challenging House Republicans.

The fight over military tribunals and torture is far more than a partisan issue. In Connecticut, for example, religious activists affiliated with the National Religious Campaign Against Torture have initiated a campaign that seeks to hold all Senate and House candidates in the state accountable for their positions on torture and the abuse of executive power. They have begun meeting with Congressional candidates and injecting the torture issue into campaign events.

[ClassWarrior]

8. I didn't say I had the impression of anything. In fact...

...I specifically said in my very first post, "Just curious."

And speaking of first posts, you specifically said "Democrats" in yours. Now that you've been called on it by another poster, you've slipped in the qualifier "Senate Democrats."

:shrug:

I'm just looking for accurate information.

NGU.

[leftchick]

10. why don't you read the articles I linked....

and decide for yourself. It is clear to me the MAJORITY of democrats in both the house and the senate have decided, for political reasons, to sit this issue out. That is what pisses me off and I believe I made that clear in the OP. The question of where I get my news is off topic and I think you meant it to be.

[ClassWarrior]

11. No, you implied in the OP that ALL Democrats had decided to bail.

Not the MAJORITY, no matter how capital your letters. And that's what raised my antennae - that's something the Corporate Media would gleefully imply. Hence my question.

Geez, why so touchy?

NGU.

[babylonsister]

2. Conyers isn't, and there are others.

http://www.conyersblog.us/

Kerry stated unequivocally on Hardball that torture is not an option.
I think Levin has co-sponsored a bill against torture, and
some Congress members have been outspoken against torture (Durbin, Reid,
Dorgan, to name a few).

[LynneSin]

5. I'm not trusting anything that comes out of the Philly papers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Daily_News

http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/bystate_detail.php?city=BRYN+MAWR&st=PA&last=Tierney&first=Brian

The new owner is a hard core republican who has donated to the Swift Boats

:cry:

[KharmaTrain]

7. Watch The Clock...5 Days & Ticking

First...If there's any Democrat who favors any form of sanctioned torture or the elimination of habeus corpus, they should be drummed out of the party.

This isn't our fight. This is one between the military and this regime. Look closely and you're seeing the final alienation of the military from the Repugnian Party...and that's a good thing in itself. There's no up-side for Democrats to hop into this mess. It's like watching a fight between a wife-beater an a child molester. Do we care who wins?

The game here...and yes, this IS a game and has to be viewed that way, as this is how the Repugnican want it and they oontrol the rules...is to let this debate simmer...as the election recess is next Friday. Another day of these bastards bickering about this sad issue, one day less for them to take actual action. Add this to a whole list of promises this regime and the Repugnicans want to get done before they recess and it makes sense for Democrats to hold their powder until the Repugnican come up with a final resolution (which surely will include some form of condoning violating the Geneva Conventions) or show total ineptness in not being able to get their shit together.

The Democrats in the Senate have the ability to fillibuster...there are the 60 votes to bottle up any passage of a bill this session...and remember, Frist has promised to fillibuster from the other side if its not "tough enough". In the meantime, those who would support boooosh eating a live baby on TV have their red meat...while the majority of us watch in amazement as a Repugnican Congress sputters over destroying the Constitution, International Law and individual rights...something not lost on Moderate Repugnican and Independents.

Last weekend, we included a few canvass questions about the condoning of torture, the elimination of due process and the wonton eavesdropping of all electronic communications...and we found precious few, in a relatively Repugnian area, who supported any or all of the regime's positions on these issues. The fear card isn't working because the results of the past 3 years are now showing how inept this regime is at handling security issues...and that's the dirty little secret that could play out big on Nov. 7.

Yes...as a matter of principal, Democrats should speak out against all efforts to gut the Geneva Convention and any support of this regime's draconian "war on terror" bullshit...but pick your fight wisely. Right now letting the Repugnicans chase their own tails so close to an election is a good thing. Ignore the corporate media's spin on what's going on as they have long been compromised.

Cheers...

[ClassWarrior]

9. Thanks, KT, for that well-reasoned analysis.

I hope you're right.

NGU.

[leftchick]

12. So ... given the events of today

and the repuke "rebels" giving bush what he wants. Is it time for the democrats now to speak out? Or should they keep that powder dry until all americans are able to be legally tortured under amended US and Geneva Convention law?

:puke:

[KharmaTrain]

14. Glad You Asked...YES

I could feel the "compromise" coming last week...it was inevitable, the only question was how much either boosh or McCain would win or cave. It was time to see them play out their hand and now to act accordingly.

From all appearances this Rovian kabuki theater played out so that now it's clear that Repugnican...even McCain...condone torture and domestic spying. Now the game goes to the committee and my hopes are that it's not gonna be the easy ride through as expected. Depending on the polls (and yes I hate that), you've got DeWine & Chaffee who may sit this dance out and making it possible for the Democrats on the committee to bottle it up. Or, if it goes to the floor...here's the chance to get some of our favorite Repugnican on record about what they feel about torture and spying...and if there's any feedback from the grassroots or the military, its gonna be a tough house fight as well. If a Powell or a cadre of generals stay against it, that could be a real turd in the punchbowl.

Then there's the House side. While the Democrats get rolled easier there...that's not necessarily the case. With so many close races, this could open the door to getting some of these slimeballs on the record as well...and then to trash the hell out of them with it.

Don't let the corporate media spin snow ya...the "silent majority" that will be going to the polls in 5 weeks see right through what is going on here. Also, the rift between the military, the intelligence community and the Repugnican party is now beyond repair. We're not quite hearing about the push for military absentee ballots this year (may be a harvest for us in 2008) and moderates and independents see this as a regime out of control...failing on both Iraq and security...and a great opportunity for Democrats to close the deal.

The problem is how many poker players we have here. The Repugnicans have forced us to blink too many times and they still expect us to do it again. They will try to frame this scam as "preventing the terrorists from killing you". Democrats have to stand firm and call these bastards on their bullshit.

Cheers...

:hi:

[DancingBear]

13. C'mon LC!!

First you said Democrats, then ALL Democrats, then all male Democrats over 6'3''.

What kind of BS are you selling here?

Ha!! I caught you.

Torture will be allowed on alternate Thursdays, but any and all pointed objects will have to be OK'ed first by the newly formed (bi-partisan!) Torture Emergency Rapid Response Association -TERRA, for short.

Go Dems! Way to stand tall, guys.

<banging head against wall>

:hi: