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NYT editorial: Cornerstone of GOP election strategy is voter suppression

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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-20-06 11:32 PM
Original message
NYT editorial: Cornerstone of GOP election strategy is voter suppression
Editorial
Keep Away the Vote
Published: September 21, 2006

One of the cornerstones of the Republican Partys strategy for winning elections these days is voter suppression, intentionally putting up barriers between eligible voters and the ballot box. The House of Representatives took a shameful step in this direction yesterday, voting largely along party lines for onerous new voter ID requirements. Laws of this kind are unconstitutional, as an array of courts have already held, and profoundly undemocratic. The Senate should not go along with this cynical, un-American electoral strategy.

The bill the House passed yesterday would require people to show photo ID to vote in 2008. Starting in 2010, that photo ID would have to be something like a passport, or an enhanced kind of drivers license or non-drivers identification, containing proof of citizenship. This is a level of identification that many Americans simply do not have.

The bill was sold as a means of deterring vote fraud, but that is a phony argument. There is no evidence that a significant number of people are showing up at the polls pretending to be other people, or that a significant number of noncitizens are voting....

***

The actual reason for this bill is the political calculus that certain kinds of people the poor, minorities, disabled people and the elderly are less likely to have valid ID. They are less likely to have cars, and therefore to have drivers licenses. There are ways for nondrivers to get special ID cards, but the bills supporters know that many people will not go to the effort if they dont need them to drive.

If this bill passed the Senate and became law, the electorate would likely become more middle-aged, whiter and richer and, its sponsors are anticipating, more Republican....

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/21/opinion/21thu1.html?_...
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-20-06 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. Okay, so just for today, I'll rec the Times AND the post. But that's it.
:)
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-20-06 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks!
:)
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muesa Donating Member (176 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-20-06 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. That's why I vote by absentee
That's why my wife and I vote by absentee
  • leisurely,
  • on paper ballots,
  • leisurely, and
  • about a week before the election.
Altho this is getting pretty close to a poll tax, who knows what the team of Roberts to Alito to Scalera to Thomas will do?
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AtLiberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
49. Don't be fooled that voting absentee is safe...
Do you know how those absentee ballots are counted?

They're scanned via machine. If you ever watched absentee ballots being scanned, you'd be very angry. Many absentee ballots are disqualified because they're folded, bent or mutilated in the mail.
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LizW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-20-06 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. Another consequence
Not only do the Republicans plan on disenfranchising as many of the poor and minorities as possible, they plan to make them pay for it.

There was an article in our local paper this week or last detailing how onerous this new ID law will be on the states. Already the lines for driver's licenses or non-driver ID's are outrageous (some people have to take three days off work to get a license), but the states are having to spend big bucks on new software and equipment to do all the things the federal law requires. The system goes down for long periods of time and people just have to wait, or come back later and start over. With every new requirement, the waits get longer.

The effect is that drivers' licenses will cost more (keeping the poor from getting them), and people who can't afford to miss work won't be able to brave the lines (keeping more of the poor from getting ID's).

This is a poll tax targeted at likely Democratic voters.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. hell many many in Fla who registered at dmv..still weren't
registered..they came to polls and were not registered..big problem in Fla in 2004!

fly
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M155Y_A1CH Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #8
21. This might help
If you register with Democrats.com, they have a searchable registered voter list.
I just checked on mine and I'm happy to say that I am still on the list of registered voters and my info is correct. Folks might want to check it out if they fear their name has been removed or not properly listed.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
50. It happened to me in a red county of Calif
Not only Florida. Motor Voter is a suppression tool
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samsingh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
5. why do repugs hate democrasy and America?
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
6. Wht the NYT runs an editrial like this
I can almost forgive them for running Judy Miller's fiction on the front page in 2002.
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toughboy Donating Member (78 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
7. A few questions for a patient person?
Does this thing work retroactively for people who vote absentee? Would a registered voter have to go at least once to the Board of Elections to show them an ID even if they had been voting for decades?

I voted for the first time this year because I'm legal age now to vote but I asked for an absentee ballot because it's paper and can't be erased and I work almost all the time.

Now I'm thinking that they could just throw my ballot out or just lose it somehow.

Shouldn't states have to claim the number of absentee ballots they have received and from what zip codes and start counting them as soon as the polls open or even before that? Why do I keep hearing that some elections have to wait days to count absentee votes?

Is it okay to ask this many questions? I'm also concerned about my parents who have lived in the same town where they were born and have voted for probably 30 years. Can you use a utility bill or another type of bill or only pictures.

Glad this time decision making is so easy. Who would vote for anyone but a Democratic Party candidate at this point anyway?

What is an enhanced driver's license anyway?

Oh, cranky baby, dead tired working mom. My shift. Got to go. Be back Friday I hope.

Life is good!

Monmouth County, New Jersey

:patriot:
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. welcome to DU!
sure it's ok to ask questions!

I've asked a few of the same ones as you on this board. Unfortunately, i don't know the answers.

But for someone who does... these are the ones that intrigue me most:

"Shouldn't states have to claim the number of absentee ballots they have received and from what zip codes and start counting them as soon as the polls open or even before that? Why do I keep hearing that some elections have to wait days to count absentee votes? "

Well, DU?

:kick:


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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #18
28. It Depends on the State
I work the polls in Michigan--absentee ballots are collected by the City Clerk and sorted by precinct, and opened and counted on Election Day by the workers at the precinct. Provisional ballots are processed somewhere else, and I don't know that answer.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #18
73. Okay here is a partial answer to the absentee counting thing
In the town of Fairfax CA, the absentee ballots from that town were bundled into
a pile of all absentee ballots - I am not sure if this means the entire COunty of Marin or the entire group from the town of fairfax.

Then when the man who lost by a few hundred votes wanted a recount, he was told he had topay some exorbitant sum (the Countyw anted $ 13,999 just for beginning the process) so that the ballots coul dbe separated back into the precincts of origin

It's a small town - shoul dnot have been that expensive.

And Kathy Dopp has sent out emails to people asking that we petition to ask the states to all keep records of types of ballots used - inother words at the end of the election when the states issue a total tally they do not explain how many are from absentee, how many from polling places, how many were provisional.

I will try to find out exactly where she needs us to send the petitions if anyone wants to help out
(Hope what I am posting is not too confusing and actually helps some)
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #7
31. Hi toughboy!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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Blue Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
44. The voter ID thing won't work in Oregon...
We ALL use mail-in ballots - there are no polling places. It's bullshit legislation if it doesn't apply to all states in my opinion.
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #7
45. In California, if you register on-line
or absentee, the polling place register has a notation next to your name - 'ID required' but that is mostly for first time voters or newly re-located. CA voter applications require either your CA ID (driver's license) or the last 4 digits of your Social Security number.
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rrasile Donating Member (214 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #7
57. New Voter
Happy to see a fresh new voter, and you have questions. This is very refreshing. Absentee ballots have always worried me because of one simple fact. For some reason they are counted after the polls close. Sometimes with overseas voters they are counted much later. Slow mail, in the case of servicemen is one of the favorite reasons. No one bitches because their afraid to offend the military.
The problem will be much bigger now that the parties are urging more people to vote an Absentee ballot. We may have to wait much longer to see the results of an election.
I can wait but not when the company that makes the scanner has a shaky record.
It would be so easy, polls close, you know what you need to win, a programer and it's done. Fucked again. Thanks for voting.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
69. Welcome to DU, toughboy!!!
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deacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:29 AM
Response to Original message
9. It's about charging people to vote - and taking a 'right' away.
It's traitorous.
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deacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:30 AM
Response to Original message
10. And we should refer to it as: The Voter Supression Bill n/t
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. EXACTLY. And believe me, I will.
Unfortunately, my Sens. are Kyl and McCain.

Frankly, it's not even worth it to call; the staffers know me by now, even.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
11. Democratic Senators better filibuster this bill because if it passes
that's the end of our Democracy.

Good to see this in the NY Times.
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PinkyisBlue Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. Democracy ended in the USA with the theft of the 2000 election.
What has happened since then has been massive looting, under the guise of capitalism.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #11
22. News Flash
Democracy ended the day Antonin "Tony The Fixer" Scalia issued a stay to prevent the votes from being recounted in Florida.
"Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government.
And let me add: It is the duty of free thinking people to cast off those who choose to oppress the citizens they lead.
Furthermore, our president is a nut.
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #22
29. Minor correction: Many votes were never counted...
It was the Republicans who insisted that the votes had all been counted and did not need to be "recounted."

They could not let the counting proceed because they knew they would lose by a substantial margin.
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FighttheFuture Donating Member (748 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
67. Don't hold your breath. They must be partisian you know, while
they are date-raped once again!
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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
12. IMO, here's how to stop these ingenious vote suppression schemes,
Edited on Thu Sep-21-06 07:32 AM by ProgressiveEconomist
This "Voter ID" gambit for Republican vote suppression is GENIUS! No armed stormtroopers with official-looking armbands need be posted at the polls (as in Tom Kean's 1981 2000-vote "victory" in NJ). There need be no ChoicePoint-type biased purges designed to catch many innocent neighbors of "disfranchised felons" (as in the 437-vote Florida 2000 fiasco).

Even on progressive boards, when this subject arises many who consider themselves well-informed ask, "What? You don't want voters to have to show ID on Election Day?" But "Voter ID" is for the alredy-registered. Such a measure is an abuse of the concept of ID, designed to discriminate against city-folk, poor people, and the elderly--groups that tend to vote Democratic. The devil is definitely in the details, as shown in an EXCELLENT DU post linked at the end of this post.

"Voter ID" is the handiwork of Republican Prince of Darkness Jim Baker in the 2005 Carter-Baker Commission report (click-through link under the line of ---s below). He fooled even Jimmy Carter, whose foundation is devoted to election administration worldwide! The Carter-Baker Commission was set up to come up with proposals for vote legislation.

But the roadmap to preventing "Voter ID" and other ingenious schemes has been laid out in large part by one of the lesser-known members of the Carter-Baker Commission, a law professor named Spencer Overton ( soverton@law.gwu.edu )

IMO, an effective strategy for halting these ingenious vote suppression schemes would have eight components. IMO, when Democrats finally achieve majorities in Congress, the Help America Vote Act must be amended to include

(1) MANDATORY minimum national standards for vote administration in all statewide and Federal elections.

(2) MANDATORY cost-benefit analysis for every proposed change in existing state law regarding vote administration, just as Professor Overton urged on the Carter-Baker Commission;

(3) MANDATORY estimation of the number of voting-age people who would be disfranchised by any proposed state vote law (for example 240,000 in MO, 300,000 in Georgia);

(4) MANDATORY estimation of the ostensible "benefit" from any proposed state vote law (for example, NO impersonations of voters stopped);

(5) MANDATORY application of the estimates to the impact of any proposed state law on the NUMERICAL BENCHMARK of maximizing, in every locality and among every demographic group in the state, the proportion of voting-age citizens (including prisoners incarcerated out-of-state and elsewhere in-state) who actually vote in statewide and National elections;

(6) Tasking the Federal Election Assistance Commission to prepare an annual report on levels of the numerical benchmarks in every state (an excellent choice for Election Assistance Commssioner would be Professor Spencer Overton);

(7) Voting representation for the District of Columbia in both the House of Representatives and the Senate;

and

(8) MANDATORY enfranchisement of "convicted felons" as soon as their actual imprisonments end.

Had these provisions been made part of HAVA from the outset, neither the Missouri "Voter ID" law nor the Georgia law would have passed muster. Their cost-benefit ratios would have been calculated as INFINITE (division by zero).

And courts would not have to micromanage the ingenious administrative details that go into implementing "Voter ID" and FUTURE vote suppression schemes. DUer galloglas posted a SUPERB thread on these details for MO "Voter ID" at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... . The list of documents specifically prohibited for getting an Official Repoblican Abusive Voter Suppression Photo-ID included--Voter ID cards!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From http://www.carterbakerdissent.com /

"DISSENTING STATEMENT

I am a professor who specializes in election law, and I served on the Carter-Baker Commission. ...the Commission's Report fails to undertake a serious cost-benefit analysis. The existing evidence suggests that the type of fraud addressed by photo ID requirements is extraordinarily small and that the number of eligible citizens who would be denied their right to vote as a result of the Commission's ID proposal is exceedingly large.

According to the 2001 Carter-Ford Commission, an estimated 6% to 10% of voting-age Americans (approximately 11 million to 19 million potential voters) do not possess a driver's license or a state-issued non-driver's photo ID, and these numbers are likely to rise as the "Real ID Act" increases the documentary requirements for citizens to obtain acceptable identification. The 2005 Carter-Baker Commission does not and cannot establish that its "Real ID" requirement would exclude even one fraudulent vote for every 1000 eligible voters excluded. ..."
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Excellent. We do need to reform the elections process,
and this is an excellent proposal.

BTW< AZ has a similar Voter ID law on the books as well.
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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. Right now, courts have to micromanage hundreds of details of election
administration. The devil is definitely in the details in these ingenious Republican disfranchisement schemes. But, building on Commissioner Overton's excellent dissent, the proposal I've laid out would eliminate thousands of possible variations on the vote-suppression schme, in one fell swoop.

Instead of having to micromanage hundreds of details of election law in all the states, districts, and other principalities that vote in Presidential elections, courts would scrutinize cost-benefit analyses that boil down proposed changes in law to their effects on numerical benchmarks. These benchmarks would be proportions of voting age people who actually vote and actually have their votes counted.
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Aviation Pro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
13. It is first and foremost about retaining power....
...the cocksuckers and poodle fuckers that constitute the "leadership" of the RepubliCON party will try to hold onto minority rule as long as they can. They are deathly afraid of the wilderness (not to mention the gang bang prison rape) that awaits them should they fall out of power and be subjected to the righteousness of John Conyers' gavel.
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Apollo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
14. "General Discussion"
Sorry I forgot. Pretty much everything around here is "General Discussion" ... :eyes:

Editorials & Other Articles
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Topic Forums - Election Reform
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Trying not to get mad ... :kick:
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Please don't get angry. DU is a HUGE board, and I never go into
Edited on Thu Sep-21-06 08:31 AM by blondeatlast
those forums myself. This needs to get out as much as possible.

Besides, when the Gray Lady has something like this figured out, it has the power to grab attention.

I understand your frustration, the same has happened to me many times on the big forums, but it's all for the good, right? :patriot:
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Maryland Liberal Donating Member (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
20. False issue
Since when did voter fraud become a big issue? Can anyone cite me a case where ANYONE has voted twice in the same election??? It's all a distraction.
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Syncronaut Seven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. Welcome to DU!
Vote fraud,

Voter fraud,

Two different animals.

Voter fraud: perpetuated by individuals intent on voting more than one time, or in more than one district.

Vote fraud: Systematic wholesale dis-enfranchisement of voters thru the illegal acts of intimidation, wholesale removal from rolls without verification or recourse, tampering with vote totals electronically, enacting onerous requirements that dis-proportionate affect the electorate.

Voter fraud is, and has always been a problem, but limited by the fact that it is usually perpetrated by individuals of their own volition, and not a conspiracy of two or more.

Vote fraud is a systematic, wide spread, organized effort to dilute/negate the will of the people by "American blue bloods" (fascists). Also prosecutable, but under racketeering laws.

Welcome to DU, Hopefully I've been able to clarify for you.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #20
70. You're right, Maryland Liberal. Welcome to DU!
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
23. Consider what is happening in New Orleans
I'd call New Orleans a 'purple state' where it seems that both democrats and republicans can win statewide. One of the reasons for this is large urban areas like New Orleans where the population will definately be more democratic than republican.

But now a bulk of that population has been displaced now for over a year and for some of the former residents of New Orleans, frustrations about getting their homes back in order have made them to settle elsewhere in the country.

I can see Louisanna going solid red in the next couple of years - that stuff makes me angry
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JMDEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
26. I Screamed about this a few days ago -- nobody was interested
I posted a big fat warning about this a few days ago. The post received maybe 3 or 4 replies, one of which said "So what" (Yes, literally "so what") and another which said "no big deal -- the Republicans are always trying to suppress the vote". It then dropped like a stone and disappeared into the night.

Now that it is too late to do anything (for the House vote), everyone is gnashing their teeth and screaming bloody murder.
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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #26
56. It's NOT too late to stop "Voter ID", and the House vote 2 months before
a crucial general election provides an opportunity to make this a campaign issue. When Republicans were sneaking "Voter ID" through state legislatures, the media and even most Democrats weren't paying attention. But it's high profile now, and a matter of sheer survival for the Democratic Party. See http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
27. Is it FINALLY OK to discuss this on Kos?
Now that Bobby Kennedy and Rolling Stone Magazine, the New York Times, the Dallas Morning News and the unanimous Maryland state legislature believe that voter suppression is a big issue, is it finally OK to discuss this on DailyKos, which purged diarists concerned with voter fraud as bat shit crazy tin foil hatters? I simply stopped going there after the purge.

Thank goodness for DU for allowing these themes to develop until the MSM recognized the threat.

I have a hunch that a certain other allegation against the Bush regime that is banned from certain other progressive boards (but that DU allows on a certain forum) is also soon to be recognized by the MSM.

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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. Sept. 11 conspiracies?
I sure do hope so!
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. Yesterday's bat shit crazy tin foil hat conspiracy theorists
are today's "foresighted" investigators. Again, thank goodness for DU, even its dungeon!
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DirtyDawg Donating Member (594 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #27
32. The thing is...
...about discussing this with my Republican friends, is that if ask them if they think it's wrong to actually 'rig' the voting machines so that either a Democratic vote won't be recorded or will, in fact, be recorded as a Republican one, they'll agree that that's wrong and shouldn't be tolerated. On the other hand, if you ask them about 'voter suppression', overt and covert acts designed to keep traditionally Democratic voters from voting, they say it's just good strategy. The voter picture ID... purging the rolls of felons...jamming 'get out the vote' phone lines...throwing away certain absentee ballots because the paper weight is wrong...not enough voting machines in demo-heavy voting locations...in other words, they still think that 'dirty tricks' are harmless little acts that nobody really has a problem with - kinda like Don Corleone saying that prostitution and gambling are harmless vices (so what if we kill a few people in the process). That's why I say that until we put some teeth into the laws against tampering with the 'right to vote'...until those that actively and knowingly engage in not only overt acts of stealing elections, but the covert, 'suppression-type', crap...teeth that include 'hard' time - maybe even a little 'torture' of our own to get them to 'give up' every repig politician that has ever benefited from their deceit - until then they'll just keep on keeping on and laughing all the way into office.
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janetle Donating Member (395 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
34. Snohomish County WA
Yes, voter suppression. We have all mail in ballots. My son came home from college a couple of weekends ago and filled out his primary ballot--of course, he marked that he was a Democrat. Now he is off to college and we get a letter yesterday saying his ballot will not be counted until he comes in and re-registers to vote. They say his signature looks different than his signature on his voter registration.

But he is at college so I am having to attach a copy of his passport and then send him this affidavit to be signed and it all has to be returned immediately.

I am sorry but I am suspicious.
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janetle Donating Member (395 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. And get this...
...the next time my son comes home from college in another state will be Thanksgiving--after the November election.

How convenient to target college kids who overwhelmingly vote Democratic--if they vote.
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freedomfries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
36. voter suppression law framed as anti-illegal immigration bill
Note that this new bill, HR 4844, aimed at suppressing the vote of any US voter who does not happen to own a valid driver's licence aka photo ID is sold to the public in the same breath as the planned border fence as an anti-illegal immigration, "security" bill.
Check the fanfare in Google: 603 articles, all tuting the same lines:
"Congress pushes immigration bills"
"House, Senate back measures against illegal immigration
Bills on voter IDs, fences advance"
"Congress debates immigration bills
Voter IDs and Mexican border fence considered as general election nears"
"House and Senate push through immigration, voter ID bills"
ect., ect.,ect.
The NY Times Editorial stands out as a lone dissenting tune in a deafening chorus of disinformation.
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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #36
59. This issue cries out for citizen commissions like the ones Conyers
led in Ohio, IMO.

And QUICK, before Election Day in November.

IMO, only people who've experienced changes in their ability to vote from state laws that preceded HR4844 will be able to convince the average voter that this is not a "security" issue.

Unless masses of Democrats and a good fraction of the media get themselves educated on vote suppression through "Voter ID", the Democratic Party may be doomed to permanent second place in elections, kind of like the Washington Generals against the Harlem Globetrotters.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
37. and whatever happened to nathan sproul?
probably still out there shredding registrations from people who "look like dems" while the league of women voters is afraid to sit a table at the grocery store.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #37
58. He's a busy little beaver in AZ right now
He's heading up the Gay Bashing For Wingnut Votes...er I mean...Protect Marriage Initiative. So at least he's probably not actively supressing votes right now but still I can't believe that mf isn't behind bars... :grr:
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7P Dude Donating Member (150 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
38. Why do people assume that Democrats...
...are the ones who would be too lazy to get an ID card in order to vote?
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MissB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
39. I was surprised
to learn that even in lil' Oregon, there were allegations of voter suppression in the 2004 election.
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
40. This is, at least still is, a DEMOCRACY. Voter suppression is ELECTORAL
TREASON. What a sad, sad commentary that ANYONE would use any form of voter deprivation or suppression to win an election. Once again I say, WHY has Congress not acted swiftly and suredly to end electoral illegalities and guarantee that every citizen's lawful vote will be fairly counted? This is the biggest threat to democracy. Shame, shame, shame. This is the truest test of your elected representative's mettle. Do they support or hinder democracy? No matter their pedigree, no matter their party. There are no shades of gray.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
41. In other news, dog bites man.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
42. Paper please, let me see your papers
You do not belong here.
Starting to sound like Nazi Germany, If you do not have your papers, we will lock you up.
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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
43. Here's something interesting
In Illinois, it's $10 to renew your license. For a simple state ID, it's $20. WTF?

This is out and out unAmerican (well, I guess Repukes cheating is pretty American, not that I think about it). This law will get tossed by the courts if it gets through the Senate, which is unlikely. There are still a handful of Repuke senators who haven't completely sold their souls to Satan.
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Ratty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
46. No ID: I suspect some people find it hard to believe.
About a month ago I finally got an official state photo ID. I don't own a car and haven't driven in decades so keeping a current drivers license simply was not a priority for me. I'm a citizen, was born and raised here. I'm not poor. I have a college education. I *used* to have a drivers license when I drove as a teenager, and it was good for years and years after it expired as an official ID (turns out people accepted it as valid ID, even at airports). But as it became more and more outdated and its physical condition deteriorated I found myself in more situations in which it was NOT accepted as ID (e.g., trying to buy now-controlled antihistamines at the drug store).

So I lived without any kind of official state identification for over a decade. I'm not defending myself, not trying to explain *why* I never bothered to get it. I simply didn't. I have a birth certificate, I have a social security card. There is plenty of proof that I am a US citizen. But a photo ID I simply never bothered to get. I have recently found out that there are a LOT of other citizens just like me who, for whatever reason, have never bothered to keep a current photo ID. Do you know that you *must* now provide your fingerprint to get a license or state photo ID? It was a surprise to me because you didn't used to have to. And now it's all computerized and put into a huge database. It scares me.

So I'm just saying, in case you're wondering what kind of legal citizen doesn't have a photo ID or thinking that anyone who doesn't is a criminal or has something to hide or is trying to pass themselves off as a citizen when in fact they aren't--well, I'm just saying that's not true. I'm saying it's not even true most of the time or even a large part of the time. Not having a photo ID, believe it or not, is not uncommon for legal adult citizens. I'm just saying ...

I know it's unconstitutional to require a national identity card, but I wonder about the constitutionality of requiring a STATE identity card?
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bpeale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #46
53. NM voter ID
We here in New Mexico who are registered voters, have already received our voter ID's ... a free one from the state. That ID is changed if your information is changed. It's an official voter ID. doesn't have a picture, but it was made from voter records by the state. i think that should be sufficient for any election. i didn't have to inconvenience myself. it came right in the mail & looks like a credit card with a magnetic strip on the back.
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #53
74. What if someone is homeless? How would they obtain an ID?
That solution sounds good to me with that one caveat. I would propose allowing the homeless to list local post offices or libraries as there place of residence, so they could pick up their cards there.

Simply using the voter registeration rolls to issue voter IDs seems like a logical and fair solution, but it must go hand in hand with paper trails, and greater voter security to insure that every valid vote is indeed counted.
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AtLiberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
47. Thank you, NYT
!!!
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gully Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
48. Hopefully we'll take back congress this year and undo this bs bill.
Edited on Thu Sep-21-06 12:18 PM by gully
We'll never win again if they continue down this path. First they redrew district maps to make winning nearly impossible, now they plan to make voters jump through numerous hoops to discourage them.

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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
51. As DUer petronius said:
It's "an attempt to limit Democratic votes masquerading as a plan to fix a problem that doesn't exist."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Repigs are GREAT at diverting attention from REAL problems and "creating" non-existent ones - so the REAL issues never get fixed. It's their M.O. (and GUESS who is typically behind the REAL problems? Republicans of course)
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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
52. My LTTE


Re: Keep Away the Vote
September 21, 2006



Requiring voter proof of citizenship is extremely onerous. Having just obtained a US Passport for my non-driving 18 year-old daughter let me enumerate time, money and commitment involved:

One hour and $15 to track down and fill out the appropriate State of Iowa Vital Statistics records form for certified birth certificate, and to have completed form notarized (a state requirement). Wait three weeks.

Three hours (with all time taken off work) and $15 to locate, drive across town, fill out paperwork and get in line for State of Texas photo ID. One half hour and $15 to have passport photos taken.

Three hours (with all time taken off work) to locate passport center, drive across town, wait in line and fill out 6 page Federal DS-11 Passport Application. Pay $55 passport processing fee, $30 application execution fee and $12 security surcharge. Wait four weeks.

So according to House Republicans, if you want to vote youll need plenty of money, the ability to take time off work, access to a car and lots of lead time. Shrewd for the GOP-- devastating for America.



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Bonhomme Richard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
54. Real news organizations would lead off with this story.........
on their nightly newscast.
Yeah.......Right.
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tgnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
55. I've been saying this for years.
Glad the NYT has made the bold statement. I've been trying to get the word out for a while:

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/04/12/con04528.ht...
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
60. Foolproof accountability with paper trail
Why not have voters use paper ballots, and then put their finger- or thumbprint right on the ballot?

Newsprism
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FighttheFuture Donating Member (748 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #60
66. Ummm... votes are supposed to be secret.
Edited on Thu Sep-21-06 06:50 PM by FighttheFuture
Although paper ballots are the way to go. Period. Hire extra workers for a few days to count it--big boom to local economy and the road to a very secure election.
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wildeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
61. In the NYT, too. Far out.
It is weird when issues and ideas that have been bouncing around in my head for ages are talked about in the MSM. I just don't expect that. Kudos to NYT.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
62. K&R.(nt)
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thoughttheater Donating Member (71 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
63. Halting Voter Fraud Is Important, What About A Vote Paper Trail?
The problem I have with this voter ID legislation is the fact that it purports to be intended to prevent voter fraud, yet it completely ignores the voter paper trail issue. Unfortunately, that leads me to conclude that those supporting this voter ID bill are simply pushing legislation that they feel would be beneficial to Republican candidates on two fronts. One, it may suppress Democratic voter turnout and it is also being spun as a means to "strengthen border security and crack down on illegal immigration"...a position the GOP feels will benefit them in November.

Here's my problem. There is little doubt that the GOP has not been motivated to provide effective border security or the means to prevent employers from hiring illegal immigrants. The failure to enact and enforce measures and methods to combat illegal immigration has been a concession to the business community, which has been the beneficiary of hard working, low wage employees. The system in place for employers to verify employee eligibility to work in the U.S. is a virtual joke and it is so by choice...which makes the current voter ID legislation all the more disingenuous and wholly political.

Sadly, it appears that the GOP doesn't see any advantage to including these paper trail provisions. It is situations of this nature that lead to voter cynicism in their elected officials as well as the entire political process. Ironically, while we are in the process of exporting democracy to other regions of the world, we have U.S. politicians that prefer to manipulate our democracy for partisan advantage. This and other inconsistencies in the application of democracy simply undermine the potential for other nations to believe that the United States is actually an agent for democratic principles.

Read more here:

www.thoughttheater.com

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LiberalArkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
64. I wonder when someone will suggest that only land owners be allowed
to vote.
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FighttheFuture Donating Member (748 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
65. Boy, the NYT, always on the cuttng edge of the latest news!!
Edited on Thu Sep-21-06 07:00 PM by FighttheFuture
/sarcasm

Brother. Day late, dollar short. Still, better than nothing, I suppose. I guess they had to comment on this, being a bill that would afect the whole nation vs. the state initiatives going on.
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GusConsultore Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
68. No wonder everyone hates us
It is this type of news which demoralizes an electorate and ruins our credibility overseas. "Is it any wonder our youth are alienating, our electorate cynical, our allies distancing themselves, and our foes more brazen then ever?"

http://www.miserywatch.com/2006/09/bush_policies_i.html
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6000eliot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
71. They do shit like this because they can only win by cheating.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
72. Remember, this one really is two sets of values clashing
There are two sets of nightmares out there:

1. The nightmare of the left: a person qualified to vote shows up to the polls and is denied the ballot.

2. The nightmare of the right: a person not qualified to vote shows up and casts a ballot.

I can go on for days about why the left's stance on this is more moral and patriotic (and it is), but the fact is slightly less than half of the country holds #2 as the greatest nightmare and we need to accept that.

Now, I don't live in a country where anyone, anytime, can ask for "my papers", and I never want to live in such a country, and I'd guess that something like 99% of Americans don't. Driving is one thing; if I want to drive on public roads, there is a public interest in knowing who I am and whom they can bill if I run over them. But just in terms of being out in public, if I'm not driving or drinking (and honestly that's rare :) ) I don't carry ID because nobody has any business asking me for any.

But voting may be different: this is a sacred duty that way way way too many men and women have died face down in the mud to secure for me, for me to shit on it. We need some solution that persuades the left that everyone eligible to vote can vote, and that persuades the right that no-one not eligible to vote doesn't vote.

In short, we deserve better. I am absolutely convinced that if everyone eligible and willing to vote has his or her vote counted, there would be a Democratic landslide like this country has never seen. Stand up for it on the precinct level and make it happen. And if they steal it from us again, all bets are off. Seriously.
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Apollo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-22-06 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #72
76. Requiring ID
I actually agree with you.

What's most important is making sure that everyone has the right to vote.

It's outrageous that some states won't allow ex-Felons to vote (after they have served their sentences).

If the government can find a simple and accessible way to provide free photo-ID to folks who don't already have it, then I don't have any objection in principle to requiring voters to produce photo-ID.

Most adults already have a drivers licence and/or passport.

Historically, it has happened in the US and other countries that some people have showed up to vote only to find that someone else already voted using their name. But I couldn't cite you any recent cases.

Obviously - if photo-ID is not required, then anyone can show up at the polls, give my name, and vote "on my behalf". Or they can vote on behalf of someone who recently died. There is potential for fraud and so I'm not going to say that it's crazy to suggest requiring voters to produce photo-ID.

The problem is that there are many people (mostly poor) who are US citizens but don't have photo ID. They should not be expected to pay for the privilege of exercising their right to vote.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-21-06 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
75. Kathy Dopp seeeking help to undertake a total audit of the nation's vote
Kathy Dopp is seeking $ 100,000 to undertake an audit and do some other things
regarding the elections and the manner of reporting the vote

Here is an email I found from her
http://www.sinceslicedbread.com/idea/13019
>
> Public Archive to Monitor Elections
>
> Elections are susceptible to tampering because no independent audits
are performed to check vote count accuracy. Outcome-altering vote fraud
is undetectable with today's system. Today insiders could pad votes for
one candidate in one vote type and subtract votes for a different
candidate in another and the evidence is hidden because every county adds the
> counts together before public release.
>
> $100,000 could pay for programmers to build a system to publicly
display detailed election data from the over 3300 county election offices.
> Existing election activist groups like ElectionArchive.org have
> volunteers in each state to collect and upload the data. This system
> would allow the public to detect vote miscounts in time to ensure
that the will of the voters is done. Every State's freedom of information
act gives us legal rights to this data.
>
> Lives and economies depend deeply on American democracy. Winning
> candidates control budgets and issues worth millions at the county
level to trillions at the federal level. Accurate vote counts are critical
to a healthy environment and economy.
Our current monthly contributions have been enough to pay for our
server collocation and our system administration, but not to hire the
programmers we need to implement the national election data archive
and the programming must be begun soon if it is to be ready in time for
the November 2006 election!
>
> Thank you.
>
> Kathy Dopp
> http://electionarchive.org
>
> If you are not a current subscriber to our annnouncements list,
please
> email
> election-subscribe@uscountvotes.org
>
> There are two ways to ensure accurate U.S. vote counts: A national
> election data archive (described above) and independent audits:
>
http://electionarchive.org/ucvAnalysis/US/paper-audits/...
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> writers-unsubscribe@uscountvotes.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: writers-help@uscountvotes.org
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
>
>


--
----
Kathy Dopp
http://electionarchive.org
National Election Data Archive
Dedicated to Accurately Counting Elections
Subscribe to announcements by emailing
election-subscribe@uscountvotes.org
Please donate or volunteer.

"Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body
and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day," wrote
Thomas Jefferson in 1816

http://www.sinceslicedbread.com/idea/13019
>
> Public Archive to Monitor Elections
>
> Elections are susceptible to tampering because no independent audits
are > performed to check vote count accuracy. Outcome-altering vote fraud
is undetectable with today's system. Today insiders could pad votes for
one candidate in one vote type and subtract votes for a different
candidate in another and the evidence is hidden because every county adds the
> counts together before public release.
>
> $100,000 could pay for programmers to build a system to publicly
display detailed election data from the over 3300 county election offices.
> Existing election activist groups like ElectionArchive.org have
> volunteers in each state to collect and upload the data. This system
> would allow the public to detect vote miscounts in time to ensure
that the will of the voters is done. Every State's freedom of information
act gives us legal rights to this data.
>
> Lives and economies depend deeply on American democracy. Winning
> candidates control budgets and issues worth millions at the county
level to trillions at the federal level. Accurate vote counts are critical
to a healthy environment and economy.
>
> Our current monthly contributions have been enough to pay for our
server collocation and our system administration, but not to hire the
> programmers we need to implement the national election data archive
and the programming must be begun soon if it is to be ready in time for
the November 2006 election!
>
> Thank you.
>
> Kathy Dopp
> http://electionarchive.org
>
> If you are not a current subscriber to our annnouncements list,
please
> email
> election-subscribe@uscountvotes.org
>
> There are two ways to ensure accurate U.S. vote counts: A national
> election data archive (described above) and independent audits:
>
http://electionarchive.org/ucvAnalysis/US/paper-audits/...
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > For additional commands, e-mail: writers-help@uscountvotes.org
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________

--
----
Kathy Dopp
http://electionarchive.org
National Election Data Archive
Dedicated to Accurately Counting Elections
Subscribe to announcements by emailing
election-subscribe@uscountvotes.org
Please donate or volunteer.

"Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body
and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day," wrote
Thomas Jefferson in 1816

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Donkeykick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-23-06 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
77. In My Opinion This Photo ID Thing Is BS!
The actual reason for this bill is the political calculus that certain kinds of people the poor, minorities, disabled people and the elderly are less likely to have valid ID. They are less likely to have cars, and therefore to have drivers licenses. There are ways for nondrivers to get special ID cards, but the bills supporters know that many people will not go to the effort if they dont need them to drive.


But drivers license or no drivers license, I was taught the importance of voting at an early age. Just think if this thing does go down! People get out and make sure you take care of it!

Back in 2004, I tried to get a lot of people to register to vote at my county fair. You would be surprised at how many didn't like Dubya but didn't wish to take the time to register to vote! Man did I learn a lot of things during that time of volunteering! :grr: :banghead: :wtf:
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