I like Hugo Chavez

[boolean]

I think he speaks his mind and says what pretty much the entire world thinks about the current U.S. administration and its foreign policy.

If chimpler's actions over the past years are not imperialistic, I don't know what imperialism is. And yes, he IS evil. Just in case any of you freeptard trolls and DLC fucknuts haven't figured it out yet, I'll say it again: Chimpy is an evil man. He's no different than Saddam or Osama. He's the other side of the same fucking coin.

Chavez, on the other hand, has helped needy people not only in his country but he also the poor people right in our own back yard.

The media has painted Chavez as a commie dictator hitler loving nutjob, while they make chimpy look like a fucking enlightened Jesus figure who only has the best intentions for all of us. Fuck the media and fuck chimpy.

I see some people here saying "Just because Chavez hates chimpy doesn't make him a good guy". Tell me how many people Hugo Chavez has murdered in the past 5 years. Tell me how many countries Hugo Chavez has bombed and/or invaded. Tell me how many people Hugo Chavez has tortured or imprisoned without trial. How many international laws has Hugo Chavez broken.

Maybe I'm mistaken, so enlighten me, all you people who say Hugo Chavez is not a good guy. Maybe he's not a good guy, but he certainly doesn't seem like a bad guy, either.

[geek tragedy]

1. Chavez is a mixed bag. Undoubtedly his goal of making

life better for his people should be praised.

However, his foreign policy and embrace of dictators reveals that he's not always speaking from the heart, but rather out of cynical political calculation.

[Buckmaw]

15. Why does he hate America?

Is it just because GWB is the president?

Will he be sending free oil if Hillary is elected?

I hope they reprint his ENTIRE speech so every American
can read it!!

[geek tragedy]

18. I don't take any UN speeches seriously on their own merits.

99.9% of what gets said in front of the General Assembly is just posturing.

If he really hated the US and thought it was evil, he wouldn't sell us oil or let American companies do business in Venezuela.

[KaptBunnyPants]

41. Why would anyone who lived in South America not hate the US?

When you use your military and covert forces to deny people self determination and steal all their natural resources, the least you should expect is hatred. We pay off a few European families who constitute their ruling class and force the vast majority to live in shacks, without health care, electricity, and clean water. And it didn't start with Bush, unfortunately both Parties have a long history of sabotaging South America to force it's people to live in ruin. Look at Plan Columbia, or the legacy of neo-liberal policies in Argentina, or really any South American country. We force countries to sell off all their capital in exchange for "loans" which are really just bribes for corrupt politicians, leaving already poor countries with nothing but debts they MUST repay by World bank ordered gutting of social services. The next Democratic president will probably just continue the tradition, as the last Democratic president did.

[Hawkowl]

62. He hates Bush....

Not America. That is what I got out of the speech. He hates America's imperialistic war mongering corporations, not Americans.

[radwriter0555]

81. Chavez doesn't hate America. Like any rational human, he hates BUSH. bush

does not represent any American ideals.

Chavez is a good man speaking the conscience of the GLOBE.

[Matariki]

2. I read that he was 'applauded warmly' at the UN yesterday

I read that in the 'mainstream media' no less. And I heard a woman on NPR reading excerpts of his speech as if it were poetry.

[roody]

7. His speeches are poetry. He is a well educated,

thoughtful man.

[texpatriot2004]

3. I like him too. Viva Chavez nm

[Virginia Dare]

4. When you cut through the bullshit propaganda..

that the media wraps it in, and actually listen to what he says, he's on our side, and when I say "our" I mean the American people. It's Bush and the fascist corporatocracy that he abhors, as we all should.

[Buzz Clik]

6. No, it's the American establishment he hates.

He'd hate a Democrat as well.

[acmejack]

9. Not without reason.

It is not like a D automatically makes one some type of laudable person. There are plenty of Democrats I find perfectly abhorent.

[Bluerthanblue]

40. not from what he says-

and not from what he does (at least to my admittedly limited knowledge).

After the speech, at a news conference:

"He also said the U.S. government was the "first enemy" of its people.

"Their freedoms are restricted through the Patriot Act. They are sent to die in Iraq for no reason. The people of the United States are being deceived," he said.

He also admitted thinking Clinton was reasonable, but this crazy cowboy shoots from the hip- or something close to that.

We keep being TOLD by this government that 'they' hate us- and the propaganda given to demonstrate that is pretty flimsy sometimes- WE have more WMD's and have killed more innocent people than any other country I can think of in the last 5yrs.

But I admit, I may be mis-informed.

[INDIA]

5. On his merits alone, I respect him.

He helps the poor, very admirable.

The company he keeps is lousy. Calling the Iranian President "brother" and giving him a bear hug??

Because of the above reasons, I'm neutral on the guy.

[boolean]

10. That's just politics...

Fuck, didn't Rumsfeld shake Saddam's hand? I don't understand why diplomacy (which is what Chavez is doing when he does those things) is so frowed upon. Maybe we all ought to just start another war because we don't like the Iranian president.

Because it worked out so well the first time.

[geek tragedy]

14. Most people here hold that picture against Rumsfeld.

I sure do.

[Dunedain]

73. Why?

I agree with the implication carried in your statement.
I have always thought the picture to be so indicative.
Is it a touchstone?
Does it capture the zeitgeist so succinctly, that to render any
digression from the pictures' implications can only be viewed as
a stubborn refusal to accept the idea, that this is what people of
this type of character do; make war and loot treasure.

Who you going to believe, me or your lying eyes.

[KittyWampus]

28. Is imprisoning dissenters and journalists "just politics"?

[rman]

55. more vague insinuations

[Bluerthanblue]

69. did you have to stand in the cages to protest

against going to war with Iraq?

No, it wasn't prison- but 'freedom of speech'? And the "right to assemble"???
Isn't that somewhere in the constitution???

What about destroying the lives of reporters who dis you? Or who aren't silenced by the potential that you may hurt them?? Why was Valerie Plame outed? Not because her husband played by *'s rules.
Why was Cindy Sheehan ignored- while those whose children are killed, and who aren't able or willing to voice the rage they may feel made to seem like pariahs? Pat Tillmans brother- The 'Patriot fries" because Chirac wouldn't play bushies game???

This isn't america anymore- it is some kind of miscarriage, or mutation.
In America being a Muslim or even LOOKING like a middle Easterner can get you put in jail with no charges, or hope for true justice.

[Occulus]

70. You mean, like Bush does?

Who, when, where, and why?

You didn't answer THOSE questions. Do it now or be dismissed.

[roody]

8. Chavez has no monopoly on hugging dictators.

[geek tragedy]

16. No he doesn't. But, you can't say that he's just a guy

who speaks his mind and then dismiss his XOXO routine with Ahmadinejad, Mugabe, etc.

[KittyWampus]

29. He also has no monopoly on jailing his opponents & silencing the media.

[EFerrari]

43. Hmm. He opened up real good to Greg Palast in a long piece

Palast did on Chavex and US trying to screw around in Venuezuela. It's been playing on LINK, "In Search of Bolivar's Heir", IIRC.

You know, anyone that can be admired by Greg Palast, Harry Belafonte AND Cindy Sheehan is okay with me.

[rman]

51. nothing but vague insinuations

[and-justice-for-all]

11. I like any country that gives BuchCo the finger!

[geek tragedy]

19. So, you like Kim Jong Il? How about Osama? He gives

Bush the finger too.

[and-justice-for-all]

21. Ok, so everyone should just bow to BushCo then??!

[geek tragedy]

23. It's just a bit more nuanced than that.

You see, some assholes have enemies that are also royal assholes.

[INDIA]

26. Do you see the stupidity of your post?

Or are you going to keep defending it?

There are several countries out there who give both Bush AND the rest of the world the finger.
But I guess you "like them."

I swear, some of the things that gets posted here...

[and-justice-for-all]

76. No, I dont.....and allow me to elaborate for ya!

Its the fact that they have enough PATRIOTISM in their country to not allow for another to stomp all over it and fall victim like Iraq and Afganistan has to total ruin thanks to US liberation. Dominist must be confronted toe to toe, face to face; US has no right to interject or intrude into the affairs of other Governments in order to gain influence. The fact that the GOP is making an ordeal over Irans decision to obtain Nuclear Power, WE HAVE NUKES and WE ARE THE ONLY COUNTRY TO USE THEM, for generating electricity for its growing polulation. But instead of talking with them and directing them to say SOLAR POWER, ShrubCo would much rather show fangs and posture then be diplomatic.

Irael even has a nice pile of Nukes along with several other countries like China and Pakistan; and the GOP has the odasity to say "Its ok for you, but they cant."? Really.....Since when does every fucking country answer to the youngest nation on the planet??

Yes, those countries have made it clear that they do not answer to the US; and until the GOP can learn to smile without showing teeth then those countries are going to act accordingly to make it lowd and clear that they will not bow to the likes of ShrubCo.

I may not 'like' the way those countries are ran or even 'like' those who govern them...but I do like that they have enough pride (As the U.S. does) to make a stand. Have they lobbed a bomb this way? No! Has any of them invaded recently??? No, they have not...Could they? Its possible, but not likely.

No, I am not paid by any corperations to make post. I would appologize, but I have no reason to be sorry and if you think I am going to because I looked at it from a different angle and came to a different conclusion then others, FORGET IT! Not gonna happen.

[cigsandcoffee]

58. You took what he said and turned it in to a bizarre absolute.

Some countries besides the US have very bad - even evil - leadership. I don't think this is arguable.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dunedain]

82. ..

"I suggest we start keeping track of people who say "unpopular" things, time after time after time after time. "

You should take that one back, or at least give it a long hard look.

You'll get no quarrel from me about the paid cake-holes.

[Erika]

12. W is the one who started the good vs evil junk

as some sort of rational for war(s).

Chavez just beat W at his own game by calling W evil.

It was entertaining to see W's concepts thrown back in his face.

[and-justice-for-all]

22. I agree with you....

[everythingsxen]

13. Chavez may be a good guy...

but as has been pointed out he is a little too close with Iran's president. So in my book he is Neutral at best.

I would dispute that Bush is actually evil. He is too dumb to be evil. Cheney definately. Rumsfeld? sure. But Chimpy is just too dumb to actually be really evil. I think he is just a puppet.

[FoxOnTheRun]

24. He said 911 was an inside job, why not like him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13C-Powt6Zg

[BootinUp]

31. Oh thats a great reason. Jebus!!

:crazy:

[everythingsxen]

33. He has also said..

that he wants to end the American Empire. A noble goal to be sure...

However, rallying all nations together to overthrow the US "Empire" could work, but as a US Citizen, I am rather opposed to it. Not on the basis that I want us to be an Empire, not for any jingoistic, nationalist point of view either. Rather I am opposed to it because overthrowing it means death for a lot of my fellow citizens. Starvation. Bread lines. Doom. Fuck that. If US imperialism is going to end it MUST come from within and not from without. Forcing it upon us will result in the deaths of people. Those people happen to be my fellow citizens.

[FoxOnTheRun]

39. It's going to end because the dollar is dying,

that's the reason why the neocons want WW3

[roody]

74. Bush and Co. will kill you long before

any Latin American president will.

[Fovea]

91. The good Germans were appalled by the Nazis.

and they were subjected to some very rude treatment indeed at the hands of the Red Army. But who brought that on them?
Same deal.

The blowback hit us on 911. It will hit us again until we start acting like a first among equals, instead of a rogue state, fond of bombing and torture.

[left is right]

32. If you are the frontman for evil

then you are evil

[everythingsxen]

34. What is "evil"?

If you were the spokesman for an anti-war organization, who's stated goals were to end the war in Iraq, but which actually funded extremist terrorist organizations devoted to violent overthrow of democratic governments and instituting religious law... would you then be evil?

From your perspective, you are just trying to get the message out to end the war. Nothing wrong with that. You are trying to help people and be altruistic. However, you have been manipulated into fronting for something that you oppose.

In my book, you would only be evil if you KNEW that you were fronting for evil. If you did not know that things were being done..... how could you be evil?

The same applies to Bush. If he knows that he is serving the Forces of Darkness, then yes he is evil. If however, he has been manipulated into thinking that he serves the greater good.... it is a lot muckier....

[spacelady]

53. Evil Appoints Evil.

[bridgit]

17. i don't agree, i think he's just another kind of nut-job...

cept on the left that's all

[EFerrari]

46. I disagree because I just saw a long piece that Palast did and

the people that he interviewed seemed to like Chavez quite a bit because he's been developing the Venezuelan infrastructure. The only guys that didn't like him were the BushCo bankrolled opposition.

I don't think you could be a nutjob and survive what he has survived politically up against BushCo.

[enigmacat]

93. Let me guess, you have absolutely NO evidence to support your opinion.

You just have a "feeling." Right?

[WatchWhatISay]

20. He's just not that sophisticated

But in my mind his honesty trumps sophistication any day of the week.

[rman]

54. Chavez doesn't play politics by our rules

He's not sophisticated by our standards of how a politician 'should' behave. But our standard is not an absolute.

[Bluerthanblue]

25. me too- far better than *- in every way. n/t

[Nedediah]

27. Chavez said this at the UN today...

At a news conference after the speech, he further lambasted the United States and U.N., saying of the latter, "There is no way to save it."

The U.N. was founded in an era of two superpowers, he said. "The Soviet Union collapsed. The United States empire is on the way down and it will be finished in the near future, for the good of all mankind."

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/09/20/chavez.un/

As an American, do you actually agree with this? I hope not.

[Bluerthanblue]

38. to be very honest...

YES- the empire that Chavez speaks about, the mutant monster that bush parades around as being "America"- needs to disolve- and it would be to the benefit of humankind.

Remember that this was at a news conference after the speech- and you neglected to add this little enlightening tid-bit that he went on to say:

...He also said the U.S. government was the "first enemy" of its people.

"Their freedoms are restricted through the Patriot Act. They are sent to die in Iraq for no reason. The people of the United States are being deceived," he said.

Also remember the crap that * has said- such as he doesn't have to explain himself to anyone - as president- 'we' are going to wipe evil off the face of the earth- all options are on the table- including nuclear bombs- ..... I don't want to even continue with the bushit.... do YOU actually agree the hundereds of bush's demented words? I sincerly hope not-

bush has done more damage to this country and this world (in OUR name) than any other person I know of.

We need to look at life with our eyes WIDE open- and that isn't comfortable, especially now.

[Selatius]

47. No empire deserves to reign, frankly; I speak as an American.

All empires and imperial governments throughout human history have been born in blood, conquest, and thievery of others' resources. By justice, none deserve to reign. That includes the US. The US would be better off not having 700+ military bases across the world, and it would be better off not fooling with other parts of the world except its own quarter. Basically, the US would be better off if it stopped trying to protect American corporate interests abroad and stopped pandering to immoral war profiteers whose money is derived from the blood of others.

[personman]

48. Yes, empires are bad.

(Did I really just even have to say that?)

Sorry if I put the benefit of the world over America, I know, I know, I'm a traitor because I'm not a self-centered nationalist and I care for people who aren't american.

As far as the UN, if I recall correctly he was saying the UN doesn't have the power to do anything, reform is not enough, it needs a new foundation. My guess though, is the press is purposely confusing that because of all the backlash Bolton got over HIS anti-UN comments. The UN DID applaud him, do you think they would do that if he was standing there saying "You fuckers gotta go"?

-personman

[rman]

49. End of US empire is not the same as the end of the US

The US could well exist without being the neighborhood bully.

[Bluerthanblue]

68. Yes!! say it again- louder.!!! n/t

[oasis]

72. "empire" . You want an American "empire"? Pax Americana? It will

not benefit you or yours, unless you own stock in Halliburton.

[roody]

75. I am an American and I agree that the end of the

empire will be a good thing for the earth.

[BootinUp]

30. I think Clinton had it right

Chavez hurts himself and his country by playing the outraged radical at the UN. You say that our media has painted him as a commie dictator, but you seem to ignore the mans actions and politics when making that charge.

[Bluerthanblue]

35. your statement is profound, and could easily be

applied to gw bush- and fit like a glove. (and I'm not talking like OJ)- This glove is custom made.

[boolean]

36. Tell me some of his actions

I mean this in all sincerity. If anyone has any links or citations to some things Hugo Chavez has done that would truly make him an evil man, I'd like to see them. (And no, hugging another guy who is "evil" doesn't count).

Is his rhetoric inflammatory? Yes. Is in inaccurate? Not really!

[BootinUp]

45. I wasn't talking about his "evilness"

Try reading my post again.

If you agree with his politics thats fine with me. I think its another case of one guy with too much power in a country with an underdeveloped political system. But that is still beside the point. The point is he only reinforced the image Americans have of him.

[1932]

56. In Aleida Guevara's book which is an interview with Hugo Chavez,

there's an epilogue where she interviewed the president of the equivalent of the house of representatives. She told this story about Chavez:

She was an indigenous indian woman from out in the countryside. She was from a small town near the army base that Chavez was sent to by the army because, when he was in Caracas, he was building up a fan base made up of students of his at the army college who were being converted to his progressive politics.

In this town, white european hunters made a sport of killing the locals. One day, Chavez drove his jeep into this town and all the locals hid, because their experience with the army before that was not very positive. But the kids didn't know enough to hide, so Chavez went up to them and talked. After a while, the adults realized that he wasn't a danger. They came out and talked. He asked them about their problems. They said that they had one big problem: they were hunted for sport by white Europeans.

Chavez put a stop to that. After he solved that problem he got his unit to engage in a public works programs. He helped the town build infrastructure, schools, an oral history program and a community theater (think FDR and the Depression). Well, they loved Chavez.

He obviously did so much for that community that one of its residents was able to become the equivalent of the speaker of the house. (Wouldn't it be nice if, in the US, instead of getting assholes like Newt Gingrich, we got politicians with experiences like this woman's in Venezuela where they're insipred by people who actually try to help people in need?)

This is one of hundreds of stories about Chavez that are told in that book that are incredible insights into what motivates him and what his character is.

[Hawkowl]

60. He is a hero

Anyone who stops the white men from hunting indigenous people is a HERO. Shrub is EVIL.

[135th]

80. I wouldn't call Chavez evil,

but I wouldn't call him a friend of democracy either. He has a bad track record in that department; a failed coup, constitutional rewrites to consolidate power, and pressuring his opposition are all feathers in his cap.

[Vidar]

78. Though ass kissing has worked well for Bill, Chavez is

playing to a different audience, not our corrupt & biased media. That Chavez has become the de facto leader of the 100+ non-aligned nations should attest to his effectiveness with his intended audience.

[BootinUp]

85. Lets see how well it works out for him.

People who criticize Clinton the way you do, have a poor understanding of politics in this country.

[Vidar]

88. Chavez isn't running in this country. Clinton is easily the most

capable democratic politician since LBJ & yes, ass kissing is a big part of that.

[PDittie]

37. I like him too.

He seems kind of like Charles Barkley to me; a guy who tells the brutal truth, sometimes to his own detriment.

He is emerging as the primary obstacle to the Bush Regime's imperialism. I think he's more significant than Osama or Ahmadinejad at this point, and not only because he's in our hemisphere and was democratically elected, but also because he sees his foe not as the USA, but as Bush.

I hope Hugo has a sizable contingent of capable and uncorruptible bodyguards. I'd like him to stick around for awhile and agitate the Bushites.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[UTUSN]

42. Well, *I* don't-------- he's just LIKE Shrub!!!!!!!11 n/t

[personman]

50. Then where are the social programs and nationalized oil?

We should be so lucky. He's been using his countries oil money to take his country out of poverty and fund social programs for his people. Could you see Bush pumping millions of dollars in to free eye surgery for poor people? Could you see him taking big oil over for the people? If Bush was "just like Chavez" I'd have voted for him in 2004 without a second thought.

-personman

[roody]

77. I am guessing you have never heard him speak.

He is well read, eloquent, and full of love. Just not today at the UN.

[upi402]

44. You are not mistaken

I think the so called "moderates" are mistaken. *THEY* are the apeasers, not those of us who see the extremes that we're subjected to daily -for exactly what they are.

[1932]

52. Me too. It took two books: R. Gott's book on Chavez and A. Guevara's book.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

57. You're Entitled, Of Course. I, However, Think He's A Piece Of Shit That

can go fuck himself for all I care. Thankfully, I'm entitled to hold that opinion as well.

[Wonk]

64. Hey OMC, you've got a friend in post #59. Say hello before he's gone.

[Bluerthanblue]

67. now this is an intelligent

mature enlightening comment-

Think whatever you like- but what does what you 'feel' about a person matter. Where are your reasons for these feelings??? Because we've been taught to hate him? Or do you really have reasons?
Please, if we are going to LEARN and GROW, which is my personal goal from interacting on boards such as DU it helps to give some verifiable, researched facts, rather than angry opinions with no explanation.

I'm interested in the facts, and reasons WHY you feel this way.

Think of it like this- bush is entitled to hate anyone he wants, and he seems to hate many people- but he has the power to act on his hatred, and very few people with power of their own take the time to find out if his 'feelings' are based on actual reasons/actions- or bigoted lies, and misrepresentations. Remember those babies torn from their incubators by evil Iraqi's?

And for a dictator who was a despot, and who lived in luxury while his people suffered in tyranny- How many of them were deprived of electricity, and potable water for YEARS- there are STILL places in Iraq that have not had their infrastructure repaired. How about the fact that health care was free in Iraq when SH was in power, and 'we' are creating a system there, which will match our malignant program- Its easy to label people and spread gossip- I want hard cold indisputable facts.

And I get the same tired rhetoric.

[JNelson6563]

86. Wow! Am I watching Faux News??

I marvel at what I read here sometimes.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[donco6]

63. What a maroon.

I'm sure Iraqis are thrilled with the positive changes to their country. Maybe we could ask the 100 who died today in sectarian violence caused by the power vacuum we created? Oh, that's right, . . . THEY'RE DEAD!

And we retaliated against - Iraq? A country that had nothing to do with 9/11. How stupid are you anyway?

Not to say I'm defending Chavez - IMO, he's just another controlling politician.

Enjoy your short stay.

[devilgrrl]

66. Another one bites the dust.

Man, I love that alert button!

[Vidar]

79. Cool, another freeper troll burning.

[1932]

65. Suggested reading for you: Overthrow by Steven Kinzer.

[samsingh]

83. i like Chavez as well.

[killbotfactory]

84. But he smashes babies while they are still in the incubators!

And he arrests and charges people who violently try to overthrow a democratically elected government! Such oppression!

[enigmacat]

94. LOLOLOLOL. Yay! I totally agree.

What Chavez' "big crime" is, is being honest about BushCo and their actions, while also having no real skeletons in his closet. I guess some people think he should just stay in Latin America where he belongs, and let Bush and friends rule the world.
Go Chavez, go!
I am so getting a Venezuelan bumper sticker for my car, my clothes, my dog, etc.

[xchrom]

87. i like chavez.

[katinmn]

89. I would trade Bush for Chavez in a heart beat.

[Hidden Stillness]

90. Hugo Chavez is a Christian

I believe that Hugo Chavez is a true, devoutly religious Christian. There was an article posted here on DU about a year ago, I can't remember the title, written by Chavez and describing the true meaning of Christianity and living the life of the message of Jesus. It was about justice, honesty, and a service of the people, especially the poor, that later would be called "socialism." The original Christians were socialists, shared and helped each other, and did not have individual ownership of property.

"Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me." Matthew 19:21.

"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but (those) that doeth the will of my (God) which is in heaven." Matthew 7:20-21. (Changed two words to remove male-only reference.)

Devils? Mark 5 tells a story of a tormented victim who called to Jesus, who removed the unclean spirit that had caused a lifetime of suffering. Afterward, Jesus asked, verse 9, "What is thy name? And" (the plagued victim possessed of the demon said), "My name is Legion: for we are many." One of those names is neo-con, one of them is lawless capitalist, and one of them is Bush. "I never knew you," Bush will hear some day, and all the money, and all the alcohol and cocaine in the world, will not stop justice then.

[enigmacat]

95. A true follower of Christ, someone who cares for the meek and the needy.

So, yes, Chavez is a true Christian.

[Jcrowley]

92. You're not alone

Over 85% of the working class and working poor voted for Chavez