The thread title caught my eye and I read through all the postings.
There is another thread, about the same subject, is afloat (it's beginning post is below).
Considering how totally different the threads are, but being about the same subject, perhaps says something about first impressions.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2179639The first post:im Jones, Jonestown, AND "Jesus Camp"
I went to the flics Monday night to see "Jesus Camp".
I'd just gotten home, when a yahoogroup list I am on had a post from someone I know in the Election Rights movement.
But her post was about "Jesus Camp", not voting. Specifically, Rev. Ted Haggard of Colorado Springs, who phone conferences with Bush and/or his staff every Monday evening. I had planned to write to DU about "Jesus Camp", but answered that list email instead.
The next morning another yahoogroup list was all aboil about "Jesus Camp", the question being Freedom of Speech. IOW, should the "Jesus Camp" types be silenced for spewing "Hate Speech". And I wrote to them instead of DU.
This morning, for DU, I am simply combining those two posts (in reverse order) and posting them. If everything I'd wished to tell DU isn't in these post, there is certainly enough for now. And, it warrants your attention.
The second email, re: Freedom of Speech.
I saw the file at the theater last night. I live twenty miles from Lee's Summit, where much of it was shot. I've known people of this stripe for a long time and I've studied the underlying theology for a while. The email below, to Sharon, tells much of my thoughts.
But one thought that never crossed my mind was eliminating their Freedom of Speech.
Whether one is a Christian or not, one can study the history, understand the teachings, and be aware of the nature of Christianity, to know when something has gone astray. And the teachings of the people in "Jesus Camp" have nothing in common with Christianity, except for the theft of the name.
Interestingly, the film speaks of 1973; a turning point year. The film shows the pre-Millenialist stripe of Dominionism in these so-called Christians and the reaction to Roe v. Wade decision of that year.
But it also marks the year that the GOP and its Kollege Korps of Religious ideologues (known as the Youth For America) decided, in the wake of the debacle that was Watergate and the fiasco of Viet Nam, that the Roe v. Wade decision warranted the overthrow of "liberal" democracy and the substitution of their authoritarian brand of government-enforced democracy.
Those plans have been formed and carried out since that day to this. Like a cat in the night. The film shows one tiny part of that plot, in action.
I'll say this, when those post-Goldwater Republicans started exploiting their warped version of the Pentecostal faith of John Ashcroft and his father, with the thought that "we" would have "a moral America", they never understood that they were loosing a Genie from a bottle. But they did.
When you see those children, and the adults, in near ecstasy over the thought of coming nuclear oblivion, you will realize something has been unleashed that was never intended. Something not Christian. Even the most radical Wahabbi Arabs only wish to rule the world in a Global Caliphate. They do not, like the alleged "Christians" in this film, want to end it.
So, how to battle them then? IMHO, not by ignoring them and their beliefs.
We should understand why and how these people come about, and defeat them by using our own right to Free Speech. These people claim that they speak for Jesus and we're too polite to say, "What ?? That cannot be! Your beliefs run counter to everything he taught. You are HERETICS!"
And we should know enough about them, those beliefs, and the history of them, to back up what we say.
There is, and has been for centuries, an understanding of what Christianity is and what it isn't. Most other Christian nations consider America apostate, even if they don't voice it.
But the Fundamentalists of the Dominionist, pre-Dispensationalist, pre-Millennialist, post-Millenialist, Reconstructionist stripe are Heretics, bent on stealing our Republic and making for themselves a Theocracy.
They already have two branches of the Federal Government, and are only one Supreme Court Justice from gaining the third.
Sounds crazy, doesn't it?
Well, I'd suggest you go to Thomas.gov and look for the Constitutional Restoration Act of 2006. It is SB 520 and HR 1070.
Read it. It is short. And, though the nine Senate sponsors and 39 House sponsors claim it is to prevent courts involving themselves with religion, see what you think. You don't even need to know the law. It's clear as a bell.
What do I think the CRA does? Me?
I think it destroys Marbury vs. Madison, the nail upon which the Constitution hangs. Not only that, I think it would let any and all Federal employees walk Scot free from anything they do, if they only say "I did it cause God wanted me to!"
If enacted, it applies to our CIA torture, any administration war crimes, war-profiteering, breaking FISA laws, rendition, you name it. Whatever Bush and company may have done.
And these poor deluded, ignorant people in "Jesus Camp", who think they walk in the footsteps of Jesus, are only there to forward the ends of the GOP.
But I also think that anyone who has sown the wind in 1973, is liable to reap the whirlwind, and reap it soon.
And I truly hope that it is they alone who will suffer from it.
Phil
Below: The email to Sharon
Hello Sharon,
I saw this film last night. It was filmed about twenty miles from me, In Lee's Summit.
The movie is very disturbing. My thoughts went to Jamestown and the Rev Jim Jones. I kept wondering what would have happened if those loonies were to, literally, tell the kids to "Drink the Kool-Aid" (the source of that phrase is Joneses Jamestown massacre of 1979).
These "Christians" who act this way have no idea of the teachings of Jesus Christ, Prince of Peace. Their Jesus was a "Warrior" and wants these kids to be warriors, in their opinion.
These people have to be known for what they really are. They are heretical. They are the literal descendants of people who, a century and a half ago, attended The Primitive Baptist Church. And,. after that, the Assemblies of God, created in Springfield, Missouri, circa 1905.
In those days there were no divinity students to staff the churches in America, so their preachers were those who "had the call", and they made things up as they went along.
In about 1973, the Far Right Wing of the GOP (partly led by a young John Ashcroft) infiltrated the Evangelical and Pentecostal churches and introduced a Heresy known as Dominionism (though there are other subtypes under that) which proclaimed that the "born-agains" should "have Dominion over the Earth" (the Jews having forfeited by rejecting Jesus as Messiah).
These people are the most dangerous single threat to the survival of the USA and of the Earth, let alone democracy or the Democratic Party. For, in their view, an Apocalyptic end to the World (nuclear war, or whatever) is a "good" thing because it will bring back Jesus.
But at their head, leading them, are the post-Millenialist variety of Dominionist who believe that there will be a thousand year reign of perfection before Judgment Day. Until then, they will bring back Mosaic Law, (really!!) and will administer a "Christian Nation" under the one party rule of the GOP.
My thought is this. The US is viewed as actually heretical by most other Christian nations in the world (perhaps our benighted past explains why). We should take a good hard look at ourselves and ask how to exorcise this Heresy from our midst.
And, in my opinion, we should take the bull by the horns, and with the Mainstream Coalition of Christianity in America, go on the offensive. We must learn the doctrine that they themselves are perverting and beat them at their own game. Be able to beat the Rev. Haggard's of this world by unspinning the lies they speak in the name of Christianity, learn how they twist Scriptural Interpretation, and drive these sons-of-Snake-Handlers back into the woods where they came from.
IMHO, start with the Sermon on the Mount and go from there. Jesus was a rabbi who taught Love and Peace.
Those who claim his mantle, as in "Jesus Camp", are not only unworthy to untie his sandals, they should feel ashamed to even speak his name.
For a view of what these people really are, try Yuricareport.com. Or read a recent book by Michelle Goldberg, titled (I think) "Kingdom Coming" which bears a subtitle. It can be found at Scoop.com.nz
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