There was APPLAUSE when Chavez called Bush "The Devil!"

[Atman]

I've been hearing about this pretty bizarre speech by Venezuala's Hugo Chavez, and that he had called Bush "The Devil," but none of the reports mentioned that when he first said it, quite a few members broke into applause! It was no ovation, to be sure, but it wasn't quite the outrageous outburst all the Cabal News Networks were making it out to be (for the record, it was Lou Dobb's show that I first heard the applause).

BTW: I don't think the kind of bullshit Chaves was spouting was appropriate at the United Nations. I just don't. He could have been duly harsh while also being a bit more, uh...diplomatic. Am I alone here?

:shrug:

[themonster]

1. Bush - Devil?

Bush isn't the devil. He just works for him. :)

[Annces]

5. Nice distinction

:P

[Canuckistanian]

9. A "cost-plus" contract, I hear

He uses it as a template for Halliburton.

[Cha]

85. I'd like to hear what Mike Malloy

would be saying about this whole fiasco with Chavez calling bush "el diablo". Would Mike say Chavez was a thug? Or he had no right to say that at the esteemed United Nations?

[Matariki]

38. I had this idea that from a 'mystic' point of view

The concept of 'the Christ' would be the best of what humanity could be - a spiritually evolved being full of compassion, empathy, divinely inspired genius and so forth. From that point of view the 'anti-christ' could very well be the worst little sadistic village idiot around. Nothing glamorous at about it at all.

[City Lights]

2. I was watching Lou and heard it - I was shocked!

I think the whole thing - Chavez's comment and the response it received - is a sad commentary on what bush has done to our standing in the world.

[liberal N proud]

4. Did you notice how CNN was spinning it?

Making Chavez out to be the evil one.

[City Lights]

6. I did.

What I didn't hear was any comment on the fact that others applauded his comment.

[demigoddess]

7. I wondered why CNN was commenting on it but not playing any of the

tape on it. That must be why. They wanted us to be in the dark about the reception.

[chill_wind]

11. They aired just a few sound bytes but the still-frame photo snaps

they chose were quite obviously meant to make the guy look like a totally crazed zealot.

Our corporate ho media is very, very good at this carefully selective kind of imagery.

[personman]

28. Read a bit of the transcript and you'll know why.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2178446&mesg_id=2179072

They'll just keep playing his devil soundbyte. They won't play his 5 printed pages (yeah, I printed it out) of reasoning (dangerous stuff) on why he said what he said. It's just a subtle technique to make someone sound crazy. I thought he stated the facts pretty well though, not that you'll hear them from the corporate news. More then we could expect from shrub.

Doubt they want people reading Chomsky's stuff either.

[NotGivingUp]

16. they should all be fairly dizzy from all the spinning they did

[Nabia2004]

45. Sad commentary indeed, first a fantasy assassination movie

now repeatedly chastised at the UN. Our standing in the world as reached a low that I never thought possible. We are the bad guys. Its like a bad dream, if only I could awaken from it.

[tsuki]

3. Actually, I was glad to listen. It is gauging the anti-American

feeling that was most interesting. And also that their was a distinction made between the Government and the people.

Content was less important that reaction to me.

I had been hearing that the anti-American feeling was toward not only the government, but also the people.

[Democrat 4 Ever]

10. I heard it on Dobbs, too. In addition to clapping, those diplomats

laughed at Chavez's remarks. Laughed. From a room full of dignified, serious-minded people from all over the world there to work on world problems find a man calling the "Leader of the Free World" (boy is that title long gone) satan and that he smells. Laughed. We have fallen so far in such a short amount of time.

[tsuki]

42. What I found interesting is that he demonized the government, and

not the people. When they start demonizing us as a nation, we are in trouble.

[Greyhound]

58. No offense intended here, but the shit we're in right now is so deep

that we can't even smell it anymore, and it is all our own fault.

[Tarheel_Dem]

8. No you're not alone.....

The MSM will play this up, and I think it will have some unintended "rally round the flag" consequences. I know that a good 60% of America thinks he sucks as the leader of the free world, but this could possibly make a number of them come to his defense.

There are plenty of forums for name calling & finger pointing, but the UN ain't it. By the way, I think huge parts of Bush's speech were inappropriate as well.

[orwell]

12. How many thousands has Chavez murdered?

How many countries has he taken over?

How may torture camps does he run?

How many Geneva conventions has he broken?

How many elections has he stolen?

How many MX missles has he launched?

How many nuclear and bilogical weapons does he control?

How many troops does he have on foreign soil? In how many countries?

Yeah...I guess him calling Georgie Boy out wasn't "diplomatic."

It's no wonder there was clapping. There should have been a standing ovation...

[Freedom_from_Chains]

13. That ought to tell one what time it is don't you think? n/t

[Subdivisions]

14. Yea. The fact that there was a rousing applause (considering the room

was only 1/3 full, has been lost on most commentary today. I was just watching a replay of it and it struck me how no one was talking about the applause and cheers.

[NotGivingUp]

15. i applaud chavez for saying what he said

[chelsea0011]

17. and Bolton was taking names

[patricia92243]

18. So, so sad that the US has slipped so far in the world's opinion because

of the buffoon in the WH.

[B Calm]

19. The whole world knows Bush sucks! In fact, Bush is probably the first

American President to be scorned, looked down upon and viewed with distrust and suspicion by the entire free world. Think how the world use to look up to America as a bastion of truth. How sad for America right now and how humiliating for us.

[ForrestGump]

32. No, Reagan was, too. And, overseas, nobody could understand how he

got voted in a second time.

But Reagan was nothing compared with Bush (and here we're really comparing administrations, because in neither case was the 'president' really in charge, Dubya far more completely and more transparently so than Ronnie). At least Reagan was actually voted in, as far as I know, too...doesn't say much about the American people, or the pitiful percentage that vote in presidential elections, but he was the people's choice.

[Greyhound]

59. LOL! it's the same administration today that it was back then.

The difference is that then, those who would rule, hired a professional actor/fool to play the front-man. :rofl:

[blue cat]

20. No, you are not alone.

Not appropriate at the UN, esp in our country.

[LeftyMom]

27. It's got to be in somebody's country

Do you really think people ought to kiss Bush's ass because they're standing on American dirt? Seems to me the whole mission of the place (and for that matter, the whole idea of America) is under threat if people can't say what they think.

[Greyhound]

60. Great point LeftyMom. n/t

[karlrschneider]

21. There was a considerable amount of applause, but why can't Chavez

say whatever the hell he wants to?...it's an international forum, not a gathering of emperors.
:eyes:

[onecent]

22. Most of the things the repubs do are not APROPRIATE.. I think

it's HIGH time someone tells it like it is. The truth hurts sometimes.....

[B Calm]

25. How much longer do we allow Bush to humiliate the USA?

[personman]

23. What bullshit?

I thought he hit the nail on the head. I don't understand your outrage at all. Your mad at Chavez for pointing out that Bush and the neocons are imperialists bent on world domination?

[KamaAina]

24. Bush** is not the Devil so stop saying that!

Bush** doesn't wear Prada :evilgrin:

[Fovea]

50. Does too!

But only for 'Bulldog Jeff."

[mnhtnbb]

81. No, he's just the antiChrist

www.bushisantichrist.com

[sufrommich]

26. How comforting to know

that the world body is acting with the same level of maturity as the guys that gave us "freedom fries".

[bigbrother05]

29. It was the best TV, I've seen since

Little Richard was an interrupter for Shrub.
I just hope someone recorded it.

[malaise]

69. It's here

http://www.un.org/webcast/ga/61/index.shtml

[tuvor]

30. bush has talked the same way about other leaders/regimes.

"Axis of Evil" and "evildoers" should sound familiar.

[Truthiness Inspector]

31. I was looking forward to this speech

but I don't think Chavez was wise to use such hot rhetoric. It wasn't very diplomatic, at a time when diplomacy is of great import, IMO.

[Roon]

33. In case you didn't see it...this is what the applause was like

[scarletwoman]

34. No, you're probably not "alone here" -- but I hope it's a small minority.

Did you follow the link to the entire transcript of Chavez' speech that personman posted on this thread in reply #28?

Here's the link again, in case you missed it: PRESIDENT CHAVEZ DELIVERS REMARKS AT THE U.N. GENERAL ASSEMBLY

It's an excellent, spot-on, truthful and powerful speech. Chavez, while he is certainly something of a showman, is no dummy. He has a clearer grasp of geopolitics than nearly ALL of our fellow propaganda-addled U.S. citizens.

If you are relying on U.S. corporate media soundbites of his speech to form your opinion, you are willingly allowing yourself to be blinded and fooled.

Chavez was NOT "spouting bullshit". He was making an impassioned plea on behalf of the common people of the entire world who long to be free of U.S. imperialist interference in their affairs.

sw

[Nabia2004]

51. thanks for the link, impressive speech

That is an entirely different message than the cut-n-paste MSM crap being feed to the masses.

[scarletwoman]

64. Please give credit to "personman" in post #28 above.

I just followed the link he provided in his post and re-posted it. It's a damn impressive speech, imho!

Thank you so much for actually going to the trouble of reading it! I'm always appalled at how so often people will spout off opinions without bothering to educate themselves on the facts.

Thank you again,
sw

[Occulus]

77. I'm thinking some of those people have an agenda.

It was amazig, how Certain Parties came out in force against Chavez when all this was posted earlier.

There are some here at DU who are not entirely truthful about their alliegiances. Some of those posted on threads earlier today about Chavez. I have taken note of their usernames, and will be searching the archives as well as their recent posts.

Something about the Serious Chavez Detractor Brigade stinks.

[Nabia2004]

82. totally agree, too many accept the status quo...

even here at DU.

[Sanity Claws]

35. Bush has called others "evil"

Remember the axis of evil crap? He shouldn't be surprised when others adopt the same language he used to talk about other countries' leaders.

[Generic Other]

36. I knew it!

[bridgit]

37. Chavez needs to stop playing to the cheap seats & concentrate his...

country's oil wealth on things that matter to his chronically poor citizenry, changing the methodology is a little too bfee for me

'20.10.05 | At the beginning of this year, the National Statistics Institute (INE) reported that poverty in the country had risen by 9.2 percentage points during the six years of the Chávez administration, despite the huge amounts invested in social programs. The INE reported that the poverty index at the close of 2004 was 53% compared to 42.8% in the first semester of 1999, when Chávez took office.

Now, prodded by a dressing down from the President as a result of the announcement of these figures and after being ordered by him to change the method of measurement, it has been announced that, at the close of the first semester of 2005, poverty was 39.5%, i.e. 4.3 points lower than in 1999 and 14.5 points less than at the close of 2004; an extraordinary feat. Unfortunately this achievement is not due to an improvement in Venezuelans’ quality of life but reflects a “mere” change in methodology.' http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200510200708

[Judi Lynn]

56. Quoting a site run by the Venezuelan "opposition" may not help.

The "opposition" elite has run Venezuela into the ground over the many, many years, long before Hugo Chavez was elected. They will NEVER be caught publishing one word in his favor. Not one.

They had the chance to help Venezuela's vast poor themselves, but their nastiness prohibits it. They are perfectly fine with keeping things exactly as they were before Chavez became the President.

[Greyhound]

61. Because a website run by, and paid for, by the Venezuelan ruling class

is a good source for objective news. :eyes:

[Selatius]

66. You are better off quoting the Ministry of Propaganda of the 3rd Reich

Nice source you have there.

[bridgit]

71. when you perform a search on 'poverty venezuela', you will find...

"opposition" to many a thought expressed here, this will be more to your palette is my guess http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2006/655/655p9b.htm

but there is no way around the high probability, that Chavez is playing with his numbers as well, just as the "opposition" in this country rightly states bush is doing, and my greater sense is that neither man would have their "opposition" understand what they are doing behind closed doors...you have every right to seek the info that makes you the most comfortable, but the data at each site states similar numbers, just with a spin designed for a specific audience; shot with a spun-gun if you will

i do try to remain as open as i am able, and quite often council the same for others here; i would very much prefer the world be governed from within a state of balance, and not this frantic tugging one way...or the other, but that's just me

[Selatius]

72. No, this doesn't suit my palette.

To the issue of cooking the numbers, you've given me a source from greenleft that mentions not one hint of book cooking, yet you assert in your opinion that there is a "high probability" that he is doing the same thing Bush has done. You just made an assertion, but you haven't provided evidence to support it, and your previous source is within right to be questioned given that the opposition that runs that source was guilty through and through of launching a brutal military coup with the goal of toppling a democratically elected government.

[bridgit]

73. yes but the "opposition" does and that is clearly not acceptable to you...

so...what? you are a fervent supporter of Chavez merely because he opposes bush? so does kim jong il :eyes: and i think he's a bit kooky too

[Selatius]

74. You just missed my point.

You asserted they cook numbers. Show me evidence that they do the same. I want facts. Do you have a UN report stating they changed how they record poverty figures? Got numbers from the International Labor Organization on changes? Or are you operating on the hunch that "if the opposition does it when they have power, then Chavez et al. must also do the same thing when they have power."

Now you've questioned me directly by insinuating I am supporting Chavez for the mere fact that he opposes Bush and then qualifying it with bringing in Kim Jong-Il's name, as if to insinuate that I also support him as well.

[rman]

80. playing with the numbers, such as conducting a phone poll

in Venezuela about Chavez's popularity - a poll which by its nature omits the poor majority of Venezuela that does support Chavez - a poll conducted by an "independent" polling bureau operating from the United States - a poll that found Chavez wasn't that popular... (what a surprise).

Although the poor in Venezuela now have access to food, education and healthcare, most don't have a telephone yet.

[roody]

39. The poor, indigenous people whose sight is restored

by Cuban doctors thanks in part to Venezuela's generosity don't mind Chavez calling Bush the devil.

[crikkett]

40. I just heard on KPFA's FLASHPOINTS there was a standing ovation!

http://www.kpfa.org
Go to the archives. I think a stream/download of this show will be posted as soon as it's over (6pm). i guess I need to watch CSPAN tonight to see the replay!!

[sofa king]

41. I get the impression the devil is smarter than that.

But you never know.

[Just Me]

43. Oh. I guess you haven't heard that there are bzillions of Americans,....

,...who actually view this Bush as an "anti-christ". :shrug:

I am a disconnected human, but spiritual, being. I don't believe in an "anti-christ".

HOWEVER, I do believe human beings can BE/ACT as a devil or an angel.

Is this Bush behaving/acting as a devil. Ummmmm, hell yes. Any human being who oppresses others for power is d/evil. Animals behave better than U.S. corporacrats,...they don't waste and glutton and wage mass murder. FUCKING DUH DUH DUH!!!!

*blush* the language is simply frustration over abuse, perpetual and ugly and bloody and evil abuse.

[JoMama49]

44. I agree -- he could have disagreed with * with a bit more class

and probably done more damage -- now he'll be labeled a kook, if he isn't already!

[Karenina]

90. You Amis seem to think

It's ALL ABOUT YOU!!! Your *dauphin on each and EVERY OCCASION that he's set foot outside your shores has been insulting, ignorant, intemperate, incoherent, lacking in protocol, EXPENSIVE, condescending AND FUCKING DRUNK AND STUPID. He destroyed the Queen's garden and traumatized her flamingos. Now YOU tell ME who the KOOK is. It's just TOO MUCH that some indigenous brown prole who has come up through the ranks would DARE challenge your WASP *dipshit, even as *HE is sodomizing you. :shrug:

[SeattleGirl]

46. I also think calling Bush the Devil at the UN was inappropriate

If he wanted to dress Bush down, fine, but I also think it could have been done without resorting to that kind of thing. Not that I am trying to defend Bush -- no way!! Just saying that there are times and places where better language could be used. It was no better than Cheney telling Leahy to go fuck himself on the floor of the senate.

[emcguffie]

57. I'm sorry. I deeply believe that guy is truly truly evil.

And I'm thankful to anyone who will get up on the world stage and speak the truth, say what is so.

[SeattleGirl]

63. Hey, I don't disagree with you that the guy is evil.

I just think that calling him the devil and saying the smell of sulpher still lingered was, frankly, rather childish, and something I'd expect from Bush himself.

And, I also think the truth can be told in many ways; Chavez could have picked a different way, a la Keith Olbermann or something like that. KO's smackdowns on Bush tell the truth (the he did say Bush acted like a thwarted three year old, which I found totally hysterical).

:hi:

[emcguffie]

84. I guess I can't help myself.

I work in that building, and it's like a breath of fresh air to hear other folks stepping up and speaking out, truth to power, so to speak. Dressing down the bully on the block, which almost no one has the nerve to do outright.

I found a flyer on my chair yesterday, about a draft convention the French were introducing, on forced disappearances. That's a bit of a slap in the face to the US, or a biting of the thumbnail, I guess, one I am happy to see the French biting... but I guess it is a bit more subtle.

We were hardly subtle with the freedom fries business.

I just feel so ashamed sometimes... I like it when someone stands up to a bully. Hey, if that bully had had his way, Chavez would be dead by now. And you have to realize that a lot of your impression of Chavez is probably false, engineered by the controlled media. Why should we be offended when the chimperor is insulted? He IS an insult to thinking people everywhere. And he got where he is through subterfuge and the exercise of inordinate power.

The UN is supposed to be where countries do what is needed to preserve international peace and security. And now on top of the heap there's this great big dumb bully, completely out of control, threatening the planet with a nuclear conflagration, with no one gutsy enough to just stand up to him and say "No!"

I think that's why it's a relief to me. I have all this pent-up angst, waiting for just such a moment, and it finally came! Relief. Pure relief. Thank you, Mr. Chavez.

I will admit, however, that I can be a bit of a hothead. Although I do try not to act on my impulses. At the same time, I keep on having them.

I should be careful, but I've been quiet and careful for so long, and this is so wrong.... It's really wrong for any of us to keep quiet about it. So I'm spouting off in a public forum. That's a no no. Am I being self-destructive? ... ????? at this point -- :shrug: things can't get much worse, can they?

[countryjake]

88. Thank you for speaking up so well!

[spacelady]

75. That is how I feel, also. I have felt this in my gut since since this

little turd thought he had "the right stuff" to capture (steal) the world stage. Isn't that the foundation of the "freedom & democracy" the turd likes to espouse? Let's thank those who have the world audience to tell it without the giftwrapping.

[countryjake]

89. Did you even listen to the rest of the speech?

His delivery and language was perfectly legit for a forum such as the UN; the el diablo bit was humorous prelude, warming up his audience to listen well to the important points he had to make. Comparing that speech to the vulgarity of Cheney is a bit ridiculous and makes me wonder if you even understood the thrust of what Chavez presented to the UN.

[Fovea]

47. Devil??? Wow

That is far better than I would have done.
My remarks would have been BLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP!!!!!!

[tblue]

48. Bush es muy malo.

I think Chavez has been waiting a long time to say those things on the world's stage. It may have been impolitic, but it was not a mistake. I have a feeling Chavez knows there's a general consensus around the world that agrees with him about the Preznit. Maybe not in the US, but in the rest of the world. Everybody doesn't get their 'news' form FOX/MSNBC/CNN & the American networks, you know. Not yet anyway.

And, are flying monkey Republicans really gonna stick up for this failure, this divisive, nasty, sorry excuse for a President, who inspires such universal revulsion? They never cease to amaze me.

Did you know in Israel, masses of people took off from work whenever Clinton gave a speech on TV? It was like a holiday. My, how far we've fallen.

[greiner3]

49. The UN is for posturing;

For getting the mostest the fastest; more countries to see your point of view. I believe Chavez will not see the end of his presidency. I would love to grill bush about the particulars but I am a nobody so I'll never know the full truth. If Chavez was out of line, what about Khrushchev in 1959 or 60? Or Powell right before all this crap blew up? Come on now, I think you forgot your sarcasm button!

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

52. I don't think Chavez speech was any worse than Shrub's

I enjoyed hearing him call Dubya The Devil

[opihimoimoi]

53. If Bush is Infected with Satanism, what would the signs be?

It seems to me for 6 years he been showing Devil signs...since swearing on the Bible to uphold the Constitution...

"Ye shall judge them by their Fruits"


Bushies Good/sweet fruit have all been cleverly hidden from our view.

He is responsible for chili peppers and sour lemons.....not very good to eat.

Come, we go dump Bush.

[Cha]

86. bush would be sending Soldiers

to die or be maimed in a War On Iraq based on falsifying evidence and out right lies. he'd be all for torture, torture, torture. he'd wanna tear up our Constituttion. he'd suppress voters and steal his elections.
he'd leave all the children behind.
he'd wanna steal the Social Security fund and give it to wall street.

I go on all night but I better stop before DU shuts down for an hour.

[earth mom]

54. Why should Chavez be diplomatic about *?!

The time has come to stop sugar coating the thugs in office and their crimes and their bullshit! :grr:

[Cha]

87. Right, bush hasn't earned any

stinkin' respect.

[emcguffie]

55. I think you've been a little bit brainwashed.

As have all Americans, basically. The US has a veto at the UN, so the truth is basically not usually stated. Not out loud, anyway.


But the truth, it seems to me, might just be that the USA and some of the other big developed countries have always exploited, and are now exploiting, and very much want to continue exploit, the very, very valuable resources of all those "non-aligned countries" that we speak so badly of, because they just refuse to toe our party line.

-- Gee, you mean they want to benefit from their oil, their gold, their silver? How dare they! Look at all we've done for them!

-- Why should Venezuela get any of the goodies, or Nigeria, for goodness sake?
-- Why should the people in the Congo benefit from the largest concentration of natural resource wealth anywhere in the world?

(I think that's true, but I don't actually know for sure.) How about that gold mine in -- somewhere in Africa -- which was purchased by a company associated with our favorite evil empire family? Unfortunately, it was filled in with many artisanal miners, individuals who mined their own gold and made jewelry, still down in it, in their individual locations, where they are now permanently entombed. Reported by Greg Palast, the story unfortunately got him in a bit of trouble in UK, where the libel laws are very different from the ones we have here.

Anyway, I'm glad they're finally saying speaking up so at the UN GA podium, and it's finally happening, I think, because our fearless leader is so thoroughly out of line.

Just my opinion, sorry.

[Rainscents]

62. All I got to say is... GO CHEVZ GO!!!

RIGHT ON!!! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
Oh if Jesus was talking at the UN, he would had called Bush DEVIL TOO!!!

[scarletwoman]

65. YES! LOVE your post!

...if Jesus was talking at the UN, he would had called Bush DEVIL TOO!!!

RIGHT ON!!! -- to you, too!

:thumbsup:
sw

[Nutmegger]

67. You said it Rainscents.

:hi:

[Rainscents]

76. Hey my friend, Nutmegger!

Great to see yea!!! :hi:

[malaise]

70. One of the former Pope's

reps slipped re his book and said John Paul wondered if W was the anti-christ.:D

[malaise]

68. Here it is

http://www.un.org/webcast/ga/61/index.shtml
scroll down to select English or Spanish
THE BOLIVARIAN REPUBLIC OF VENEZUELA
H.E. Mr. Hugo Chávez FRÍAS
President

[rman]

78. applause and giggles

It's the sort of wise crack a standup comedian might say; not what they're used to at the UN.

"And it still smells of sulfer today."

That's just pricesless.

[napi21]

79. Is there any chance to find out which countries applauded Chavez?

I was a few replays, but I don't think I saw a pan shot of the audience. I realize therewere only about 1/3 of the members there. I would LOVE to know which ones applauded!

I wonder if there were any surprises there?

[oasis]

83. Chavez replay on C-SPAN now. 1200 est. He's promoting Noam Chomsky's

book.