Water boarding? Has anyone ever seen the process?

[Opusnone]

youtube.com removed a post with a :33 second clip uploaded yesterday from the USA network series 4400 due to a "terms of use" violation.

From youtube explanation:
"A scene 'featuring' the water boarding torture technique from Season 3, Episode 2 of the 4400 on USA. This technique is one of the 'alternative interrogation techniques' that has been used in the global war on terror, and has been suggested..." got only four views before it was removed.

I am pretty sure water boarding is not like windsurfing (though it sounds like it).

I was interested to see what exactly the process is all about. Has anyone seen this dramatized?

[Gothmog]

1. I remember the episode

The use of waterboarding of a suspect was monitored by a doctor who stopped the process after the third use to give the suspect time to recover. It was graphic and disturbing. I can not believe that the US is using this method of torture.

[Opusnone]

2. Is it like something you might see in Jackass 2?

Or more like Syriana?

[Realityhack]

8. More like Syriana

The idea is to make the subject think they are about to drown. Over and Over again wearing them down so they think you might realy finish them off (on purpose or by accident it doesn't matter).

Basicaly its the very deffinition of "the threat of imminent death" which I put in quotes because that is one of the existing legal deffinitions of torture in the US.

[warrens]

30. Not covered, though, would be ripping out fingernails

Like poor George went through in Syriana.

[Realityhack]

34. That is covered just under a diffrent part of the paragraph.

"the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering".

Ding. Torture.

[Amy6627]

3. I have not seen it. But Randi Rhodes was describing it yesterday like this

First they wrap your entire face with saran wrap, then tie you to a board, then put you in a container of water for a minute or so. Just the thought of this makes my chest tight!

[verse18]

13. The technique used in the 4400 episode was a little different.

The man was lying down and the interrogates covered his head with a bag or some type of cloth and wrapped tightly around his head and they poured a bucket of water in his face.

[FormerDem06]

4. The Wikipedia definition...

From Wikipedia this is an accurate definition:

In the medieval form of waterboarding, a victim was strapped to a board and tipped back or lowered into a body of water until he or she believed that drowning was imminent. The subject was then removed from the water and revived. If necessary the process was repeated.

The modern practice of waterboarding, characterized in 2005 by former CIA director Porter J. Goss as a "professional interrogation technique"<1>, involves tying the victim to a board with the head lower than the feet so that he or she is unable to move. A piece of cloth is held tightly over the face, and water is poured onto the cloth. Breathing is extremely difficult and the victim will be in fear of imminent death by asphyxiation

It is dramatized in a few suspense movies I've seen like Mel Gibson's Conspiracy Theory.

[flordehinojos]

11. bush wants to make this ok?

i can't tell you how angry it has made me to read just what waterboarding is and the fact that bush wants to make this inhumane treatment of another human being lawful, just boggles my mind, and to think that chrissy matthews thinks bush ought to get what he wants? it is all very angering.

[knowbody0]

5. ah, yes

Dignified waterboarding recommended by donald rumsfeld. :sarcasm:

[Amy6627]

7. Does that mean that the torturers where a suite while they are doing it?

[NOLADEM]

6. I think all Repukes who say it isn't torture should be subjected to it

[Opusnone]

9. Should be no problem

I've seen news anchors take Taser's, bean bag shots, and other forms of "non lethal" control methods, I'd love to see some of these hard guys show us how they're "not" torturing detainees.

Let's start with Dominican Lush. C'mon, Lush, it's just like frat hazing, right?

[patricia92243]

10. AMEN!!!! That goes for any Congress memebers who vote for it.

[KansDem]

28. ...it should start at the top...

"Waterboard" high officials in this administration asking "What really happened on 9/11/01?," over and over until they confess. The only drawback is their confession will be deemed "coerced" by their supporters and therefore not to be believed. Makes one wonder about the other "confessions" gleaned with this technique.

Why "torture technique" is even a topic for debate these days is beyond me...

[Sammy Pepys]

12. I've heard it described thusly:

You're strapped to a board and have plastic or some other barrier put over your mouth and nose. You're then tipped so that your feet are above your head and water is poured over the covering. Your brain then goes into all sorts of reactionary freakouts because it thinks you're drowning and you can't move, even though the water would have a hard time getting into your lungs because your head is lower than your feet. The "head over heels" thing is basically what keeps you from drowning, but the intended effect is that you feel like you are.

[StrictlyRockers]

14. I know I have seen this dramatized in a movie one time. Can't remember

which movie. And it was only one time in one scene in one movie. The guy was dunked like three or four times. He was rebellious and even jibing with his tormenters somewhat until he gave up on like the third dunk 'cuz he knew it was inevitable or something.

SR

[Sammy Pepys]

18. They don't actually submerge you...

...in modern water-boarding, as I've been led to believe.

[Lars39]

15. I saw that episode!

It was *very* disturbing. :(

[Swamp Rat]

16. Dramatized? Yes, in a movie with Geena Davis and Samuel Jackson

She is water-boarded = tortured.

[Catherine Vincent]

20. I remember that scene. The movie was "Long Kiss Goodnight"

They did her about three or four times. Surprisingly she surived (of course...it's a movie). Great movie, btw.

[Swamp Rat]

21. Thanks

I saw it the other day, but missed the beginning (and the title). Yes, it was a good movie... Samuel Jackson roolz! :D

:hi:

[Catherine Vincent]

22. Yes, he does.

But then, so do you!! :hi:

[Swamp Rat]

24. .

:hug:

[Opusnone]

25. The "Hollywoodization" of torture is most of the problem

The American public (thanks to shows like 24) have been de sensitized to torture because of its dramatization in films and on television. The fact that Druggy Limpcock travels with Producers from 24 makes me believe that the govt has an official hand in writing and offering story lines. (see psy ops)

The sheeple think that after electrocutions, beatings, and other torture, the tortured simply can break free, kick ass and save the world.

I know of only a couple films that showed the implications of violence (Three Kings, Syriana) hmm... both Clooney vehicles.

[Swamp Rat]

26. I think TORTURE itself is most of the problem

But I understand your point. :hi:

[Opusnone]

27. C'mon, Geraldo, show us waterboarding!

Live on Faux news. I'd watch that!

[Tactical Progressive]

31. I think that was water-wheeling

Wasn't she tied onto a big mill-type water wheel in that movie?

[Swamp Rat]

35. No. "Water-wheeling" = moving water from one area to another.

Geena Davis was technically on a water mill wheel, but the torture she underwent is called "water-boarding."

[OregonDem]

17. Remember there is no organ failure so its not torture.

Our government is obeying the Geneva Conventions and is not breaking the law in the eighth amendment where cruel and unusual punishment is prohibited.
:sarcasm:

I remember the day when America was a shining example of human rights and the Constitution meant something.

[notadmblnd]

19. here's a little about the who decided it was ok and the process

Thanks to Newsweek's Michael Hirsh, John Barry, and Daniel Klaidman (A Tortured Debate), we now know something of what went on in the White House itself after "President Bush had declared war on Al Qaeda, and in a series of covert directives, he had authorized the CIA to set up secret interrogation facilities and to use new, harsher methods… The handling of al-Libi touched off a long-running battle over interrogation tactics inside the administration. It is a struggle that continued right up until the Abu Ghraib scandal broke in April -- and it extended into the White House… Yoo's August 2002 memo was prompted by CIA questions about what to do with a top Qaeda captive, Abu Zubaydah, who had turned uncooperative. And it was drafted after White House meetings convened by George W. Bush's chief counsel, Alberto Gonzales, along with Defense Department general counsel William Haynes and David Addington, Vice President Dick Cheney's counsel, who discussed specific interrogation techniques, says a source familiar with the discussions. Among the methods they found acceptable: ‘water-boarding,' or dripping water into a wet cloth over a suspect's face, which can feel like drowning; and threatening to bring in more-brutal interrogators from other nations."

http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=1497

[Realityhack]

23. Which directly violates US law.

How can anyone not think this is "the threat of imminent death"? Thats the entire fucking point!.... Grrrrrr...

[magellan]

36. I doubt it's "dripping" water into a wet cloth over a suspect's face

"Dripping" water into a wet cloth over a suspect's face sounds like salon therapy. More like pouring bucketfuls of water or running a hose over a suspect's face.

[deaniac21]

29. Would marriage be an accepted form of torture?

[AIJ Alom]

32. Stop calling it water boarding. Call it what it is: "simulated drowning"

or drowning for that matter.

[soothsayer]

33. Remember the Avengers episode where Emma Peel is strapped

to a board (basically like a big teeter-totter/see-saw) next to a pond, and they'd dunk her head in and hold it under, then let her up again gasping for air? It's like that I think.

[spanone]

37. We are discussing techniques for torture. Says something.

[Generic Brad]

38. Waterboarding makes torture sound like a recreational water sport

The term intentionally brings to mind things like "boogie boarding" or some type of surfing. It is so much worse than the term sounds. We should all call it what it is - trying to drown someone!

[Judi Lynn]

39. I read it can be traced back to the Italian Inquisition.

There are woodcut illustrations of the procedure.



http://hereswhatsleft.typepad.com/home/2005/01/waterboarding.html

[zulchzulu]

40. It's something that can only be seen as harsh torture

Wiki:
The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt. According to the sources, CIA officers who subjected themselves to the water boarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in. They said al Qaeda's toughest prisoner, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, won the admiration of interrogators when he was able to last over two minutes before begging to confess. "The person believes they are being killed, and as such, it really amounts to a mock execution, which is illegal under international law," said John Sifton of Human Rights Watch.<2>