Apple Computer & Path To 9/11

[MannyGoldstein]

I received an email from Apple today announcing the opening of a new Apple store in Providence.

I replies with the following:

Sorry - I'm boycotting Apple after Jobs permitted that fakeumentary to be shown on ABC - and I'm urging all of my friends to do the same.

Mr. Jobs owns 7% of Disney (ABC's owner) - he's their largest shareholder by far. He could have stopped this revisionist history, but he chose not to.

What next? An ABC documentary claiming the Holocaust never happened? Perhaps documentaries showing how Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot were framed?

[MiniMandaRuth]

1. But Apple donates quite blue.

In fact, almost 99% goes to the Dems.

http://www.buyblue.org/company/ranking/donations?sort=desc&order=%25+Dem&page=1

[MannyGoldstein]

6. Comparing Apples to Apples

Suppose we added up all of Apple's contributions to the Dems over the years. How would that compare to the cost of five hours of prime-time airtime? The fakeumentary itself cost something like $40 million to produce, and there were no commercials.

For Jobs, business was business. Disney believed that it stood to make money by helping the Rethugs - helping them in the most pernicious of ways - so Jobs let it happen so that he could get a few extra shekels.

For us, it must also be "business is business". We must hold fast against Jobs' triangulation here.

[MiniMandaRuth]

10. Yes, and how long will the boycott last?

A month? A year?

Think about it. If we keep boycotting blue companies, what kind of message will they get?

[EFerrari]

33. Through the end of the holiday shopping season.

That's a reachable goal.

And the signal it sends is, we care about responsible media and responsive companies.

[Atman]

19. What type of computer are you using right now?

You didn't dump Windows or Microsoft products after all these years of being lied to about release dates, or after your computer got infected because of MS's shitty product which features holes and vulnerabilities the know about before it even ships, which hobbles your computer which you paid for with ridiculous "authentication" and, and...I could go on and on.

You never quit Windows or boycotted Microsoft. But everyone is supposed to turn their backs on a very, very Democratic company which had no control over ABC's actions (no one did, obviously).

Hmmm. How convenient for you, non-Apple user.

[MannyGoldstein]

21. When We Assume...

Guilty to some degree - I have had Windows boxes and an iPod Nano.

However, I was about to purchase a Mac mini when PT9/11 came out - I went with a SUSE Linux machine instead, with OpenOffice - it's great. I also chose to purchase an iRiver music player instead of an iPod Nano for my wife on our anniversary - it's also great, better than the Nano.

[Nomad559]

20. Not True

See this thread.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=233&topic_id=3865&mesg_id=3876

"Apple Corp" has donated mostly to RePUGlicans.
http://cal-access.ss.ca.gov/Campaign/Committees/Detail.aspx?id=1012686&view=contributions&session=2003

[MannyGoldstein]

22. Looks Red To Me

That's a surprise, actually.

[Nomad559]

23. Apple Corp Is RED

And It looks like Steve Jobs may be In some trouble also.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=233&topic_id=3931&mesg_id=3946

Apple executives are hiring lawyers as the company's stock options debacle continues.

The news emerges as Apple CEO Steve Jobs faces further enquiries following revelations that two senior executives at his one-time other company, Pixar, were also granted share options in a way that maximised their value.

[MannyGoldstein]

24. Follow The Money (eom)

[Touchdown]

26. Oh' lookie here! The resident Apple hater.

Visit the Mac forums to post negative shit and porno sites lately?;)

[City Lights]

27. Your link is only for CA races.

According to this, Apple has donated $202,073 to Dems, and $23,250 to pukes.

[NYCGirl]

34. So are all these people wrong?

http://www.newsmeat.com/billionaire_political_donations/Steve_Jobs.php

http://www.campaignmoney.com/apple_computer.asp

http://www.buyblue.org/node/251/view/summary

[H2O Man]

2. Well done! n/t

[ACK]

3. Too bad for not supprting a solid blue donor

As someone else stated before almost all of their political donations 90+% go to Dems.

Way to go sticking it to the man.

[Atman]

4. I can't back this.

There comes a point when you have to balance out everything. Apple was in an impossible position. SHOULD Jobs have "done something?" Maybe. But what? You do realize this happened literally as Apple was doing it's massive launch of the new iTunes, with their new partnership with Disney and ABC. He could not have come out an announced a suit or whatever against the company in one breath, then gone through with this new, long-planned venture, in the next. He himself could have been the subject of investor lawsuits...you think that deal was free?

I am not trying to rationalize for Apple. I've been fairly torn by this, but reality is reality...Jobs was in little position to do anything. Part of Apple's long-term appeal among its "fans" is it's apoliticallity, while remaining a very "blue" company. Besides, you know those Windows people who say they won't switch to a Mac because they have twenty old versions of games and spreadsheet software they don't want to have to re-purchase? What the hell am I supposed to do? I own several Macs and rely on them to run my business (read: EAT). You want I should switch to Windows now?

I disagree completely that Jobs could have "stopped" the ABC movie. Nothing could have. The GOP paid dearly for it, and obviously not even the protests of a President half the nation were enough to make ABC give a shit. But Jobs could have stopped it? That is very naive.

[MannyGoldstein]

8. 7% 0f Disney

Revisionist history is the lowest of the low.

Jobs owns 7% of Apple - far and away the largest shareholder. He absolutely had the leverage to stop this.

He chose to not stop it.

I'm not asking anyone to dump something already purchased from Apple. But next time you purchase a computer, or music player, consider an alternative to Apple.

[MiniMandaRuth]

12. What other widely available computer is there?

Microsoft doesn't donate blue at all, and I can't think of another widely available (And affordable) computer system.

[Atman]

15. I always consider alternative. I've yet to find any of similar quality.

I have considered and owned many "alternatives" to Apple products. I am simply not switching to any shape, form or flavor of Windows. Won't happen. I've owned RIO and iRiver music players...neither holds a candle to the quality, form and function of Apple's offerings. I have never, ever had to send an Apple product in for repairs since my first Mac II in 1987.

So now I'm going to put all that behind me because one man didn't try to do what half the country and even ex presidents couldn't do? Of course Job's owns 7% of Disney...so what? The movie is already a distant memory, and a shining example of ABC's hypocrisy and idiocy, and they'll have a tough time living it down. Why even tie his name to that POS? Jobs had no hand in it's making or release, and had his own shareholders to consider first. That is the way business works, like it or not. Jobs has ALWAYS been a "bigger picture" man. That is why Apple is Apple.

Reconsider your "Jobs could have stopped this" line. How? Apparently, no one else could, not even presidents and bad publicity. This train was rolling and was not going to be stopped. All the media hype about the lies and distortions, and all the marches we did on ABC's studios and the storming of their...oh, wait a minute, we didn't do that...we didn't do that, we just typed messages saying "It's Job's fault! Boycott." There are 300,000,000 people in America, and 99.9% of them didn't do SHIT to stop this. But Jobs should have ridden in on his white horse to save us from the evil ABC.


Mkay.

[City Lights]

30. I've never had any trouble with my Apple products, and will continue to

consider Apple when buying stuff in the future. We've owned IBM, Compaq, and Dell computers, and have had problems with all of them. The next time my husband buys a laptop, he's going to consider a MacBook. We have 3 Macs with no problems.

Last week my daughter left her iPod in her jeans by mistake, and it went through the washer and dryer. It's still working.

[Maven]

48. Why? So we can give money to Michael Dell? (!)

Or to MicroSuck, to pay Ralph Reed's salary?

[mod mom]

5. I was surprised that Jobs did not make a statement on this. I wrote emails

to him asking for him to denounce it prior to it's showing. Apple is a blue company, and I love my macs, but I don't understand why he didn't speak out. It certainly was NOT in stockholders best interests and he is on the Board.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

7. I don't understand the uproar.

Jobs probably got a sneak preview of that crappy POS mockumentary and knew better than get involved.

That movie convinced no one. Only the truly kool-aid addicted Great Unwashed would watch the thing from beginning to end. It was poorly shot, poorly directed, poorly scripted, poorly acted, poorly edited and poorly produced. The GOP DESERVES it. Actually, they deserve to be locked in a room without a remote and be shown that POS endlessly for a week straight at high volume, except that the quaint and outdated Geneva Conventions probably would find that cruel and unusual punishment.

[MannyGoldstein]

9. Should *Attempted* Murder Be A Crime? (eom)

[Atman]

17. Agreed. Even commenting would have just given the movie credibility

it didn't deserve. Jobs is nothing if not an astute businessman. He stays above this shit. ABC will dig its own grave, and then maybe Jobs can sue, as a shareholder, for breach of fiduciary responsibility for giving away $30,000,000 worth of product and subjecting the company to negative publicity over partisan political offerings.

[noahmijo]

11. Microsoft also owns a chunk of Apple somewhere around 20% I believe

Not to mention owning 7% is enough for maybe a hello or a short sit down but not nearly enough to be a decision swayer.

[City Lights]

13. Urge all you want. No way will I boycott Apple.

I agree with this guy:

From the Department of Dumb Ideas: The Apple 9/11 Boycott

Arik Hesseldahl

<snip>

But I can tell you what I think of chatter making the rounds regarding a boycott effort targeted at Apple Computer to protest the movie. Since Apple CEO Steve Jobs sits on Disney's board, is Disney's biggest shareholder, thanks to Disney's acquisition of Pixar, the thinking goes, Apple should be singled out for content in the movie that some people think is wrong or misleading about the events leading up to the terrorism attacks and who was responsible for what.

Such a boycott is a dumb idea because as a non-executive director and shareholder, Jobs has practically zero input in the content of this or that Disney film project. That's not what directors do.

But this brings up an interesting question about the nature of the businesses connections between Jobs, Apple and Disney now that they're so intertwined. It seems to me that every time a Disney film courts any kind of controversy, Apple is probably going to have to contend with this sort of misguided silliness from time to time. If you're upset with Disney, express your opininions to Disney management. In that capacity, you're clearly within reason to express your opinion to Steve Jobs as a Disney director. But venting your rage at Apple and boycotting its products? To me it seems like picking the wrong target.

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/ByteOfTheApple/blog/archives/2006/09/from_the_depart.html?campaign_id=rss_blog_blogspotting

[northzax]

45. see, that's all complicated and stuff

outrage is much easier.

I am also a bit amused by this. According to Disney's own filings (see them here: http://quicktake.morningstar.com/Stock/InsiderTradeHistory.asp?Country=USA&Symbol=DIS&status=1&insider=Jobs%20Steven%20P) Steve Jobs owns just over 138,000,000 shares of DIS. that's actually 6.5% of the outstanding shares. Of course, it doesn't tell us if he owns common or preferred stock (I wager it's all common, since I haven't heard anything different.) Disney is a major corporation, ABC is simply one part of that corporation.

I assume, of course, that this boycott extends to the following companies as well (represented on the board of the Corporation) Boeing, FedEx, PAcket Systems, Sybase, Estee Lauder, Sears, Clorox, La Opinion, Georgetown, Yale, The National Underground Railroad Freedom Center, Starbucks, Nike, Conservation International and the University of Washington.

if Jobs does not own preferred shares, then he has one vote on the board, same as anyone else. (wait, are we ignoring the Northern Ireland Peace Accords as well, since George Mitchell is the Chair of the Board?) It is not the role of a major shareholder to intervene in day to day decision making of a corporation. It's not how it works. It would have been frankly innappropriate for Jobs to intervene publically in a decision of a subsidiary of the corporation he owns stock in. If he wants, he can express his disapproval at the next board meeting and divest himself of shares in the corporation (but since he's made about $300 million since getting them, I doubt he'll do that.) And, of course, if he is acting in the best interests of the shareholders, it's worth noting that shares are UP a dollar/share since the movie aired.

[William769]

14. The bottom line is Money

What are Microsoft haters to do! :rofl:

[MannyGoldstein]

18. OpenSUSE Linux is Quite Excellent

Between OpenSUSE Linux (operating system) and OpenOffice (word processing, spreadsheet...), both Microsoft and Apple can now be bypassed. No sweat. Both very easy, very good products - OpenOffice can save documents in formats that work with any other office suite.

[Touchdown]

25. Ok. Now I get it

At first, I thought it was genuine, but a bit misplaced outrage over the nuances of corporate relationships, but now I see that's not the case.

The outrage you have for Apple is really just a diversion so you can shamelessly plug your own computer advocacy. It's really not about Apple's CEO supporting right wing propaganda, but it just FEELS good to think that so more people will buy into Linux and you can have a tribe of "rebels". Nice ploy.

Amway sellers/suckers have used that forever, with their fake outrage over Procter & Gamble being a Satanic company with a Satan symbol for a logo, and that the CEO gave to the Church of Satan, just so the people will buy Amway soap and not Ivory. Sorry to tell you it never worked. People still buy Tide, Crest and Comet, and I still have no idea what Amway's product names are.

[MannyGoldstein]

28. Holy Cow.

Try Googling "Occam's Razor".

[Atman]

35. Cool.

:popcorn:

[Touchdown]

36. I know what it means, and it doesn't apply to you.

Nice try though, you "independant distributer" you.:hi:

[lapfog_1]

16. When Apple introduced the Mac, it did the famous "1984"

commercial -- I say punish Disney, ABC, and, yes, even Pixar ( and I love Pixar ). But not Apple.

[DaveJ]

29. Apple is just another corporation now....

I've felt animosity toward AppleCorp ever since their bogus promotion where they handed out $20 ITunes gift cards which turned out to be songs THEY selected. It's a big corporation trying to tell us the kind of music we should like.... In addition it was bait and switch advertising luring people to their music store.

As far as their being a blue company, I think that's just a part of their image done largely for marketing.

Another problem I have with Apple is that IF Apple were dominant they would be even worse than MS at monopolizing the market. Since they use proprietary hardware fewer businesses would have been able to get in on the computer market.

[Atman]

37. IF a frog had wings it wouldn't bumps its ass a'hoppin

There was nothing unusual about that promotion. I guess that is your point...companies do that sort of stuff all the time, and Apple isn't just any other company. But that is just using the "Apple is a cult" mantra of the Jobs-bashers and extending it to a ridiculous level. It goes to an even sillier level to say that Apple is financing political parties against its own lobbying interests just for good PR? Come on!

Further, Apple already IS dominant in the music industry, with a 75% market share. And the iPod has practically become an industry unto itself, with kiosks in virtually every store, Apple no longer relegated to the Crazy Geek Corner of Comp USA...a lot of people have built successful businesses around iPod accessories, and those businesses in turn pay employees and blah blah blah...you know all this.

I think your assumptions about an Apple-monopolized market are flawed. First your assumption that an Apple monopoly would be an entity no different than the current market structure, just way way bigger, can't be demonstrated. In fact, it would be unsustainable. There would have to be something other than big, fancy company-owned sales outlets, for starters. Such scale creates the necessity to do things differently, and given Apple's history, I don't harbor similar fears as you do that Apple would somehow turn into an evil more evil than Microsoft itself.

[DaveJ]

49. I still do not trust Apple Corp.

First of all they're a corporation which takes away their soul from the get go. In addition all of their marketing is based on deception. The "I'm a Mac/I'm a PC" ads still give the impression all you can do with Windows is graphs and pie charts which is a complete lie. Plus on setup, I had to help setup a MAC yesterday and it was no easier, in some ways harder, than a windows machine. I could go into more detail but PCs are totally misrepresented in those ads. And I already mentioned the previous bait and switch Gift Card promo which actually was a 'we will tell you what's cool' promo. Again they just cannot be trusted. And what did they ever do about the Nano screens that scratch so easily. Did they ever own up to that problem? No matter. I just don't see them as any better or any worse than any other corp.

[EFerrari]

31. Good job, Manny!

:toast:

I called their PR department about a week ago and asked for a statement on the Disney Boycott. They had none but, they weren't happy. :evilgrin:

[Rex]

32. I knew there was a reason I hated the Mac/PC commercials.

They love making fun of the PC guy, yet the Mac dude looks like a drug freak. Now that explains it.

[alfredo]

38. Jobs is not on the board of ABC. He is a board member of

Disney. It would be highly improper for him to publicly meddle in the business of another business even if they are a subsidiary. His responsibility is Disney, not ABC. What he may have said about this issue with Iger or other board members he said behind closed doors.

Jobs made it clear that his investment in Disney is for his kids and their future. Remember it was right after his bout with Pancreatic cancer that he decided to sell Pixar to Disney. He wanted to ensure that his kids would have all their needs taken care of. So if he did anything to affect Disney's stock, he would be putting his kids in financial jeopardy.

Remember Jobs is a friend of both Clinton and Gore. Gore is on Apple's board at Jobs' request.

[Atman]

39. Thank you for bringing some sense into this, alfredo

Although I suspect many will still miss the point, since your post still makes it about evil, evil money. Jobs isn't supposed to be a businessman, he's supposed to be a Saint, I guess.

"Gore is on Apple's board at Jobs' request."

Bingo.

[alfredo]

47. If you've never been on the board of directors of a business, you

may not know what it is all about. Even though I was on the board, my power was my power of persuasion and my one vote. That's all the power I had. The man with the power to set the agenda sat at the head of the table.

Someday Steve may say something, but judging from his actions at Apple, he probably won't air any dirty laundry in public.

[Atman]

50. Oh, believe me, I was...I got "Steve Jobs"-ed.

After I created the product and did the road show and raised the start-up money, the BOD fired me from my own company...they had all they needed from me. The told me "What are pissed about, it's only business."

[alfredo]

52. Even when you are on the BOD you are there at the pleasure of

the CEO and share holders. You are usually brought in for a specific skill set. You could be history come the next vote.

Remember the corporate world is amoral. That's why the corporate model fails in government.


Steve got the shaft from Apple, but he got his revenge by coming back and making the company everything others couldn't. Sure he's a jerk, but he is a very savvy businessman. He's been hands on in the design of all his products. That's probably why Disney wanted him on the board.

I wonder if the contract for the PT911 was signed during Eisners tenure? He did some real bone head moves like nearly losing Pixar.

[MannyGoldstein]

41. Oh Come On

So it would have been improper for Bush to meddle in Brownie's business during Katrina? A subsidiary is subordinate to the parent - hence the "sub" in subsidiary. Disney - and its directors - are both in control of its subsidiaries, and responsible for its actions.

As to needing to sell Pixar so that his kids would not be impoverished - that's a joke, right? Jobs' kids would not be able to get by on his pre-sale assets?

[alfredo]

46. The board of ABC would have been up in arms if a member of

Disney's board tried to discipline them. Just because Jobs has not said anything in public doesn't mean he hasn't put sparks on their asses. Not everybody takes their business on the streets.

I didn't say his kids would be impoverished if his investment in disney tanked. Some men take pride in being good providers.

I was on the board of directors for a small corporation. When one member started working against the aims of the business, we didn't go public, we dealt with her personally. If there was to be any public announcement it was up to the CEO, not the board of directors.

[CBGLuthier]

40. I don't believe in either of the boycott ideas, but

What amuses me is the concept that some have that Apple is a benefactor of humanity. You would think Jobs and all his employees are out feeding the homeless and they just give their products away.

Apple is a company. A very large company that likes to make money. They will do what it takes to make that money. They really are not that different from any other corporation out there.

The fact that a certain company donates blue only means they prefer to BUY democrats instead of republicans. I personally wish that corporations were forbidden to donate money.

Although he has mellowed some over the years, Steve Jobs was at one time every bit as much of a jerk as Bill Gates. Jerks do very well in those environments.

The real prince of a guy at Apple was Steve Wozniak. And he got the fuck out of that rat race years ago.

I am not a Mac hater. I have used them. I did have some issues with QC of their products, particularly at those prices.

I just can not agree with those who think that Apple is somehow MORALLY superior. That is just an image they have cultivated.

[NYCGirl]

42. Woz still likes to hang out with Apple, it seems:

http://www.tuaw.com/2006/09/13/woz-arrives-via-segway-for-the-showtime-event/

[CBGLuthier]

43. and such hateful statements below the pics on that page

I guess there is something about people who made a fortune changing the world and are now enjoying their lives that brings out some hatred.

[NYCGirl]

44. Same as any open forum. Have you read the comments at Huffington Post

lately, especially the ones about Al Gore?

[Irreverend IX]

51. Don't forget about Apple's hatred of the free press.

They routinely sue bloggers and journalists who write about their upcoming products, taking a much more draconian stance than other IT companies. Squelching the truth in favor of propaganda is hardly a new thing for Apple.

[Swamp Rat]

53. LOL!

:rofl:

[LanternWaste]

54. All manner of justifications from the BoycottABC-BuyApple crowd

I suppose we'll be hearing all manner of justifications from the
BoycottABC-BuyApple crowd.

For my part, after reading an extensive list of all the products owned, partially owned or subsidized by Disney, I've given up on the idea of a boycott