Mr. Gore's Carbon Tax Suggestion

[RestoreGore]

Regarding Mr. Gore's suggestion in his speech yesterday:

http://www.nyu.edu/community/gore.html

I have been thinking about it, which I guess is something reasoned people do, and while I really would like to pay less in Federal taxes, I think there are still many questions that need to be answered regarding this idea. I understand that if you are a plant that produces a great amount of CO2, you would then pay a higher carbon tax unless you install sequestration equipment or employ some other method to cap your carbon emissions. Fine. However, what if you are say a small or moderate sized cab company with a small cadre of employees? You might wind up paying more in carbon tax than you did in payroll tax, and what if your business isn't bringing enough for you to afford a fleet of hybrid cabs? Would you then have to go out of business?

Of course I want companies that pollute and refuse to make changes for the betterment of society to be penalized for it. However, I see much fraud coming out of this as well as big plants work to fudge their numbers regarding carbon output in order to be able to pay less tax without having to employ changes. Therefore, that is why I asked how this would be regulated, and how much that regulation would cost. Wouldn't there need to be an oversight department within the government to in essence "audit" busnesses and make sure that those putting out larger amounts of CO2 are making the changes necessary to bring them down? And how could you possibly measure that once it is gone?

And what happens once the country should "go green?" Do we go back to payroll taxes? I was thinking of something that many might not find Earth shattering, but I recall that everytime I have my federal tax return filled out, I am asked if I want to contribute a dollar to a Presidential fund. Since that fund is now said to be dwindling and not used by candidates, why not change that to asking the person if they would be willing to donate from one up to five dollars to a carbon fund? It would be voluntary, and you might actually get more people to do that.

As for this idea, I don't dismiss anything out of hand that is a bold and brave suggestion to effect positive change. I absolutely respect Mr. Gore and his conviction regarding this issue, but I just need a few more answers particularly regarding the then future soundness of the Social Security and Medicare trust funds in lieu of this, and more specifics regarding regulation, enforcement, and fairness in levying it. I hope we get them.

[aquart]

1. It kind of gives the government a stake in continued pollution.

Which is the first flaw I noticed.

The second is, I don't want the payroll tax to disappear. I want other forms of income taxed as well.

It isn't Big Business' job to fund America thru their evil-doing. It just isn't. The premise is wrong. It relieves citizens of the burden of being able to say they have a stake in their government. That's just wrong. Big business should NOT be able to say, and they will, we pay for it all, so you owe us.

I love Al, but this issue made me drop him to second place on the Zogby poll.

[razors edge]

6. how much do you pay in payroll taxes?

none of my business just a point, I am yet to see where the constitution or the founding fathers imply a payroll tax as part of the plan.

you contradict yourself kinda, when you say that big business shouldn't fund america and they, in then in the next sentence say they won't, they will pass it on.

of course they will. they will not take money out of their own pocket to pay to provide a service, and I'm not sure I have seen anyone say they should or could without going bankrupt.

so it's net in net out. the government damands money as usual, since you can't tax a company the consumer pays, and hummer drivers take it up the ass while prius drivers see a return on investment.

pay to play at it's finest.

investment in energy efficiency will stimulate the economy as older , poorly insulated homes will finally be worth the cost of insulating. owens corning hires more to make the pink stuff.

I'm still not seeing the down side here.

[aquart]

7. Clarification.

I'm not against pollution tax. I love it.

But as the whole tax structure? Sorry. That leaves the problem of massive inherited wealth intact and bleeding us dry. Doesn't work for me.

Reduce the payroll tax? Sure. But I'd rather see the payroll tax than the endless increases in fees snuck into every corner of governmental control.

And you know what? This nation has been utterly neglected. Pollution money won't be enough to fix the damage, prepare us for permanent climate change, AND GIVE US NATIONAL HEALTH CARE AS GOOD OR BETTER THAN ANY OTHER WESTERN NATION.

It will barely scratch the surface. We have debt piled on debt and a dollar that is almost worthless.

And as to the rude question about how much I pay in taxes, honey, anyone who's bitching about paying taxes has an income. But take note, you sound EXACTLY as if the money you pay gives you a stake that someone who isn't paying money into the system doesn't have. And that, darling, is what I want you to keep on having. A stake in this system you feel to the bone.

[razors edge]

8. I don't believe in double taxation.

if you paid the taxes on earning the money, you should be able to give it to whomever you like without it being taxed a second time. massive inherited wealth does not bleed anyone of anything, only a government taxing like a mafia don does the bloodletting. the rich got rich, thats life. stealing their money will only force them to leave the country for a safer place to live and invest. if the wealthy paid no taxes on the massive amounts they have accumulated, then they are not likely to do so anytime soon, implementing a new tax that would recover monies from them would give too much warning in advance and the money would disappear from our shores. I am not happy about all these facts but unless you see a flaw in the logic or someway to seize their funds legally that will not halt all investment in america, were stuck with them, or worse we watch and wave goodbye to investment in business, jobs etc.

still waiting to see the constitutional references to personal income tax, not some amendment that cannot prove passage, along with perhaps some federalist paper references that make clear the founding father's intent. as for endless fees and such into every corner, i am more concerned with endless government control being snuck into every aspect of our lives, the fees will always bee there.

much of the nations infrastructure has been neglected, in 1996 sen byrd addressed the senate and noted how federal gasoline taxes had been amassed that exceeded the amount being held to fund social security, he was successful at getting some of these funds released and roads were fixed. but just how that amount had been siphoned away and not used for it's intended purpose, shows that even when the money is available, if government can't find a way to dole it out to best benefit themselves, they won't. I see that as the bigger problem. taxing pollution will lower the amount of pollution, as it will be cheaper to fund investment in new technology than to keep paying the tax. short of buying canada to move the grain belt north how do we prepare for global warming? we pay more per capita to provide health coverage to local, state, federal employees, police, fire, active duty military, vets, medicare, Medicaid etc than canada does for universal coverage. then we pay insurance and copays on top of that, until the insurance industry is taken on by washington that won't change, if they did we would actually save money.

barely scratch the surface? take the amount of carbon produced annually and divide by the number of dollars collected annually, times it by two and you have double the tax base. it can be any amount so the depth of surface scratched is a measure of depth of conviction.

debt piled on debt no doubt, and half of that spending is to the military.
stop living in fear. that could easily cut spending by 25% annually.

worthless dollar is an indicator of the amount in print. stop printing the damned things is one solution, but bush prefers to install bernanky and stop publishing the M-3, which will not give great faith in the dollar to those paying attention.

sorry if i came across as rude. I was only trying to make a point. I never voted before 2000 and anytime I complained I was told to shut up because I hadn't done my part to change things. fair enough i guess but now after becoming a participant in the process, I have also become a political junkie. too much time on my hands. in the same vein I have many friends who pay little or no taxes who complain of any increase in gasoline and energy related expenses, yet they continue to drive like there is no tomorrow, heat the entire house to 80 when no one is home and run the AC so the dog is comfy.

I work because that is the way I was raised and I can't set still. I earn a good salary because I pay attention to detail, follow through with tasks and take initiative. i pay a good deal in income taxes but if i was ever concerned about to the point where i felt it to the bone as you say, i would quit my job and find something that pays less. I have no problem with paying the tax other than i don't see it as legal and it is unfair.

I do not have any problem with aid to those in need, I would rather see my money go to help the needy than to ge and raytheon as it does now.

the only part of the system i feel to the bone is the corruption from on high, the lies and the abuse of a constitution for personal gain. and if this is our only stake in the system then i would hope to see us both free of it.

[Junkdrawer]

2. I'm guessing any realistic adoption of the idea would need...

a gradual, phased-in approach so that issues just as you raise could be addressed.

But we better get moving. Greenland's ice may not recognize the political realities of a massive tax change.

[RestoreGore]

3. THANK YOU

Great point. What do we do with what is already up there?

[Dinger]

4. That's Vice President Gore, Thank You

and to me and many others, he's President Gore.

[RestoreGore]

5. Yes, he is

Such a shame this country wouldn't fight for him when they had the chance.