US kinda stole GITMO

[serryjw]

I heard this last night on Democracy now??

quote........
It is a well-documented fact that the prisoners are held in harsh conditions and have no recourse to the protection of the law because the Bush administration says that since Guantanamo Bay is not US territory, American courts have "no jurisdiction" there.

Since Cuban courts don’t have jurisdiction there either, the prisoners exist in a sort of state of judicial limbo, with nobody they can turn to seek justice. To make matters worse, they continue to be grilled by US intelligence agents and military personnel who reportedly use torture to soften them up.

Cuba has surprisingly come under fire from some quarters for allowing such behaviour on its land. But Cuba has no power over this area of its own soil, as for the last hundred years Guantanamo Bay has been occupied by the United States and is separated from the rest of Cuba by one of the world’s deadliest minefields.

The area known as Guantanamo Bay covers nearly 118 square kilometres of eastern Cuba. It contains two airfields and is home to about 3,000 permanently stationed US military personnel, whilst a further floating population of thousands arrives and departs by air and sea each month.

The annual rent for the leasing of this land is 2,000 gold coins, equal to $ 4,085 (at the 1903 price of gold). This works out to an annual rent of one cent per square metre of land, which the US pays to Cuba by cheque. However, since the Cuban revolution of 1959, which brought Fidel Castro to power, no cheque has ever been cashed.

Since March 1959 Cuba has been demanding that the US return the base and has regularly had resolutions passed at the Non-Aligned Movement calling for the base to be returned - all to no avail.
end quote....
http://www.canadaka.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=12572

[Swede Atlanta]

1. GITMO needs to be returned to the Cubans

The American psyche needs to be cured of its anti-Cuban phobia. We need to recognize that whether we like it or not, Fidel is the de facto leader of Cuba. We need to return GITMO to Cuba and permanently abandon our imperlalistic heritage.

[serryjw]

2. Not in my lifetime

n/t

[ComerPerro]

3. That's how we roll

[Divernan]

4. The US has exercised ultimate sovereignty over GITMO for decades

Bush is trying to change that now because if the US had sovereignty over GITMO, Bush can be tried for war crimes for failing to observe the Geneva Convention. I got the following info at a Continuing Legal Ed seminar last Saturday, taught by the Rear Admiral who was the Navy's Chief JAG judge from 2000-2002.

Quoting from part of the brief submitted to the Supreme Court:

Under the Unique 1903 Lease With Cuba, the United States exercises at least some sovereign powers over the Guantanamo base.
. . .The Guantanamo lease is unique. For one thing, the lease is perpetual - the US can keep the base as long as it likes. the original lease, for "coaling or naval stations," was not subject to any time limitation, and a 1934 treaty with Cuba confirms that the US may retain the base forever if it wishes: it provides that the lease remains in force "so long as the United States of American shall not abandon the said naval station of Guantanamo or the two governments shall not agree to a modification of its present limits.
. . .
The government's current interpretation of Artcle III of the 1903 lease and of the "ultimate sovereignty" provision in particular - is fundamentally at odds with the interpretation that has long held sway among those within the US military charged with responsibility for Guantanamo and for the negotiation and administration of other base leases.

The most striking evidence of this is found in a history of the Guantanamo Naval Station written in 1953 - long before this dispute arose - by Rear Admiral Marion E. Murphy, the Commander of Guantanamo at the time. His book, The History of Guantanamo Bay (1953) was published by the Navy and is posted to this day on the official US Navy web site (www.nsgtmo.navy.mil/history.htm ), which describes the history as a "monumental work", although it adds a disclaimer that the history is not "presented as 'official documentation. . . by the US govt. or its agencies."

Admiral Murphy's understanding of the lease's "ultimate sovereignty" could not have been clearer:

"Ultimate," meaning final or eventual, is a key word here. It is interpreted that Cuban sovereignty is interrupted during the period of our occupancy, since we exercise complete jurisdiction and control, but in case occupation were terminated, the area would revert to the ultimate sovereignty of Cuba.. . . . it is clear that at Guantanamo Bay we have a Naval reservation which, for all practical purposes, is American territory. Under the foregonig agreements, the US has for approximately fifty years exercised the essential elements of sovereignty over this territory, without actually owning it.. . .Moreover, "unless we abandon the area or agree to a modification of the terms of our occupancy, we can continue in the present status as long as we like."

The brief goes on with more recent quotes from subsequent Rear Admirals/Judge Advocate Generals, further documenting the position that US has sovereignty over Gitmo.

Cuban authorities also have recognized implicitly that Cuba does not exercise complete sovereignty over the base as a result of the lease. The Cuban Supreme Court held 70 years ago that "the territory of that Naval Station is for all legal effects regarded as foreign.

I cannot give you a link to this brief, because I am referring to my own copy, which I was given just yesterday by Rear Admiral Donald J. Guter, who is one of the 3 who filed this brief, and who served as the Navy's Judge Advocate General from June 2000 through June 2002, and is now Dean of Duquesne University's Law School. ( Rear Admiral Guter was in the Pentagon when it was attacked on 9/11.)

[serryjw]

5. BIG fun..thanks for info

n/t