The definition of Torture has changed? WTF!

[Protagoras]

John Fund on Hardball just said that. He won't answer tweety if waterboarding is torture or not and then he said that the defintion of torture changed on Sept 12, 2001.

WTF?

These people have no souls. But lets really take a look at what they are saying. They are saying that water boarding and cold cells, and various other activities are NO LONGER torture. I know, I know...dozens of pre 9/11 movies showed people getting tortured (lots of PoW movies) often included scenes JUST LIKE THESE in order to repulse and outrage the audience. And I know that the whole audience screamed TORTURERS.

But after 9/11 no one does anymore. Instead we say...oh they're using reasonable interrogation means to gather intelligence. We no longer care if WE are subjected to those things because we want to subject others to it. Therefore the definition has changed.

Torture used to mean anything that we didn't want done to us so we wouldn't do it to others. Now all the things we used to find morally reprehensible are fine, and therefore they are no longer torture.

The people who most loudly attacked liberals for having shifting morals and situational ethics are now the masters of ends over means (we know this) but now they're talking about it publically.

We now openly live in a country that doesn't gasp at the mention of torture, instead we actively debate how many forms of inhumane and cruel treatment we can stuff right up to the edge of the term without crossing a line which we now say doesn't really exist anymore.

At least not when WE do it. I'm sure if we all saw a video of one of OUR soldiers having his head held in a bucket we might view it a bit different.

I wonder if John Fund had his head held in an ice cold bucket of water if he'd view it any differently.

But we'll never know because we don't believe in justice anymore either.

[ClassWarrior]

1. John Fund wants to let the terrorists win.

NGU.

[HereSince1628]

2. It's undoubtedly an executive order. Bush loves ruling by fiat.

Everything is so much better for him as a dictator.

[QuestionAll...]

3. it has, in a way...

the beast's rule has been torturing americans and people worldwide since 2000. Not that this is a new thing in America's history, but the beast has certainly ratcheted it up a tad.

and we just take it - hoping maybe that next 'election' will vote that kind of shit out. :(

[stellanoir]

4. "America, you are now ruled by those who have

ended and changed law."

That statement coupled with the outrageous inhumanity of our conduct and degradation of our national dialogue has me completely awestruck.

Oh that, coupled with the obvious reality that we'd all say anything to get it to stop. Beyond the inhumanity is the crushing fact: It doesn't work, and only "perpetuates retribution."

This makes me sick.

The quotation is from Eve Ensler and is from a text that is quite profound.

[ScreamingMeemie]

5. Why not on Sept 11th... ?

It took them a full day to decide to use that meme?? :hi:

[whistle]

6. What part of torture does the Bush administration not understand?

Definitions of torture on the Web:

anguish: extreme mental distress

unbearable physical pain

agony: intense feelings of suffering; acute mental or physical pain; "an agony of doubt"; "the torments of the damned"

torment: torment emotionally or mentally

distortion: the act of distorting something so it seems to mean something it was not intended to mean

subject to torture; "The sinners will be tormented in Hell, according to the Bible"
the deliberate, systematic, or wanton infliction of physical or mental suffering by one or more persons in an attempt to force another person to yield information or to make a confession or for any other reason; "it required unnatural torturing to extract a confession"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Torture is the infliction of severe physical or psychological pain as an expression of cruelty, a means of intimidation, deterrent or punishment, or as a tool for the extraction of information or confessions.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture

A form of play that involves intense sensation. This is not necessarily pain. It is usually directed towards a single part of the body. Teasing, which is starting then stopping a particular attention, may be considered torture
www.grimesgrafix.com/welts/glossary.html

severe mental anguish or physical pain
encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861720977/torment.html

The Bush folks are a bunch of sick fucks!

[rodeodance]

7. 'the defintion of torture changed on Sept 12, 2001.' whow. --profound to

say the least.

[BootinUp]

8. There's only one way to be sure

ask him again while using his own methods on him.

[Protagoras]

9. Don't see why he'd object...it isn't TORTURE after all

I do hope karma factors into all of this.

[KittyWampus]

10. No, I'd say the definition of dissembling piece o'shit changed to include

every member of the Republican party.

[Protagoras]

11. I just can't wrap my mind around the fact that it's even being talked abou

on TV in such casual ways now. There isn't even apparent shock or outrage. I almost thought Tweety looked uncomfortable but Fund just plowed right along spewing his new fascist talking point. Does this guy have kids? Does he realize they're going to end up living in the shit world he's creating?

[cornermouse]

12. The only time it isn't torture any more is if we're doing it.

If someone else is doing it, its still torture. :think:

Rearranging moral values is really quite easy, isn't it? :crazy:

[SeattleVet]

13. The discussion is no longer about whether or not to torture, but HOW to

torture. That the US will torture is now a given; they are merely discussing what they will decide are the acceptable techniques.

Whatever techniques they decide to use, they need to test them on the entire Bush clan, their friends, relatives, and the rest of the fascists in this mis-administration.

[warrens]

14. Keep it up, Fund

Someday we might drop your nazi ass in Baghdad, with torture suggestions tattooed in Arabic on your fat face.

[ryanus]

15. We are no longer civilized

and no better than the declared enemy.