Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

If water-boarding is an acceptable interrogation tactic...

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
tk2kewl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 08:22 PM
Original message
If water-boarding is an acceptable interrogation tactic...
then is housing prisoners in bamboo cages 90% submerged in a river also A-OK?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sure - as long as they're not white [/sarcasm]
I weep for what this administration has done to our country...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I'm weeping right along with you, derby378.
:-( They cannot get away with this!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onecent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. I also weep with you. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rzemanfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. Well, in a warm climate....n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tk2kewl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Do you have to keep the rats out of the cage...
or are rats ok too?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rzemanfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. Wouldn't it be cruel to the rats to put them in water like that? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. Please forgive my ignorance...
But what is water-boarding?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Here's a definition:
Edited on Fri Sep-15-06 08:29 PM by babylonsister
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2005/Waterboarding-Definition-Wikipedia24dec05.htm

//

There are other forms, but all of them have in common that the victim almost drowns but is rescued or re-animated just before death occurs. The technique is designed to be both psychological and physical. The psychological effect is that the victim is led to believe that he or she is being executed. This reinforces the interrogator's control and makes the victim experience mortal fear. The physical effects are extreme pain and damage to the lungs, brain damage caused by oxygen deprivation and sometimes broken bones because of the restraints on the struggling victim.

snip//
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. OMG...
How horrible...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tk2kewl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I believe a subject is tied to an inclined board with his head lower than
his feet and then water is poured over his face.

Instinct makes the person feel as if they are drowning.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tk2kewl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. its kindof like wakeboarding, without the fun
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
many a good man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Wiki it
Edited on Fri Sep-15-06 08:33 PM by TorchesAndPitchforks
Waterboarding:

The modern practice of waterboarding, characterized in 2005 by former CIA director Porter J. Goss as a "professional interrogation technique"<1>, involves tying the victim to a board with the head lower than the feet so that he or she is unable to move. A piece of cloth is held tightly over the face, and water is poured onto the cloth. Breathing is extremely difficult and the victim will be in fear of imminent death by asphyxiation. However, it is relatively difficult to aspirate a large amount of water since the lungs are higher than the mouth, and the victim is unlikely to actually die if this is done by skilled practitioners. Waterboarding may be used by captors who wish to impose anguish without leaving marks on their victims as evidence. Journalists Brian Ross and Richard Esposito described the CIA's waterboarding technique as follows:
The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt. According to the sources, CIA officers who subjected themselves to the water boarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in. They said al Qaeda's toughest prisoner, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, won the admiration of interrogators when he was able to last over two minutes before begging to confess. "The person believes they are being killed, and as such, it really amounts to a mock execution, which is illegal under international law," said John Sifton of Human Rights Watch.<2>
In the United States, military personnel are taught this technique to demonstrate how to resist enemy interrogations in the event of capture. According to Salon.com, SERE instructors shared their torture techniques with interrogators at the Guantanamo Bay detainment camp.<3>


More at link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Some information from Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

Medieval waterboarding
"The Water Torture"—Facsimile of a woodcut in J. Damhoudère's Praxis Rerum Criminalium in 4to, Antwerp, 1556.
Enlarge
"The Water Torture"—Facsimile of a woodcut in J. Damhoudère's Praxis Rerum Criminalium in 4to, Antwerp, 1556.

In the medieval form of waterboarding, a victim was strapped to a board and tipped back or lowered into a body of water until he or she believed that drowning was imminent. The subject was then removed from the water and revived. If necessary the process was repeated.

Although in a technical sense there are actually several other forms of water-based interrogation, all variants have in common that the victim reliably almost drowns but is rescued or re-animated by his captor just before death occurs. The technique is designed to be both psychological and physical. The psychological effect is inherent in the fact that the victim is given to understand that he shall be killed outright by dint of enforced drowning unless his cooperation as demanded is indeed produced promptly. This perception reinforces the interrogator's control and gives the victim sound cause to experience mortal fear.

The physical effects are extreme pain and damage to the lungs, brain damage caused by oxygen deprivation and sometimes broken bones because of the restraints applied to the struggling victim. The psychological effects can be longlasting (see below).


Dunking

Main article: Dunking

Punishing a common scold in the ducking stool.
Enlarge
Punishing a common scold in the ducking stool.

A similar technique was applied to punish scolds and detect supposed witches. In a trial by ordeal called "dunking" or "ducking," supposed witches were immersed into a vat of water or pond, and taken out after some time, when the victim was given the opportunity to confess. If she confessed, she was killed; if she did not confess, she was submerged again. This process was usually repeated until the victim either drowned or submitted herself to execution in another way (hanging or, rarely, burning).


Modern waterboarding

Main article: water cure
Further information: SERE

The modern practice of waterboarding, characterized in 2005 by former CIA director Porter J. Goss as a "professional interrogation technique"<1>, involves tying the victim to a board with the head lower than the feet so that he or she is unable to move. A piece of cloth is held tightly over the face, and water is poured onto the cloth. Breathing is extremely difficult and the victim will be in fear of imminent death by asphyxiation. However, it is relatively difficult to aspirate a large amount of water since the lungs are higher than the mouth, and the victim is unlikely to actually die if this is done by skilled practitioners. Waterboarding may be used by captors who wish to impose anguish without leaving marks on their victims as evidence. Journalists Brian Ross and Richard Esposito described the CIA's waterboarding technique as follows:

The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt. According to the sources, CIA officers who subjected themselves to the water boarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in. They said al Qaeda's toughest prisoner, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, won the admiration of interrogators when he was able to last over two minutes before begging to confess. "The person believes they are being killed, and as such, it really amounts to a mock execution, which is illegal under international law," said John Sifton of Human Rights Watch.<2>

In the United States, military personnel are taught this technique to demonstrate how to resist enemy interrogations in the event of capture. According to Salon.com, SERE instructors shared their torture techniques with interrogators at the Guantanamo Bay detainment camp.<3>

Dr. Allen Keller, the director of the Bellevue/N.Y.U. Program for Survivors of Torture, has treated "a number of people" who had been subjected to forms of near-asphyxiation, including waterboarding. An interview for The New Yorker states:

argued that it was indeed torture. Some victims were still traumatized years later, he said. One patient couldn't take showers, and panicked when it rained. "The fear of being killed is a terrifying experience," he said.<4><5>

On September 6, 2006, the United States Department of Defense released a revised Army Field Manual entitled Human Intelligence Collector Operations that prohibits the use of waterboarding by U.S. military personnel. The revised manual was adopted amid widespread criticism of U.S. handling of prisoners in the War on Terrorism, and prohibits other questionable practices in addition to waterboarding. The revised manual applies to U.S. military personnel, and as such does not apply to the practices of the CIA.<6>


Waterboarding in popular culture

The medieval form of waterboarding was represented as having been used by the Waffen SS of the Third Reich in the Robin Williams movie Jakob the Liar.

A waterboarding incident was depicted in an episode of the television series "The 4400" entitled "The New World" (June 11, 2006).<1>

Mel Gibson's character in the film Conspiracy Theory is subjected to waterboarding during interrogation by a CIA spook played by Patrick Stewart.

In the Star Trek: Enterprise episode "The Xindi" Captain Jonathan Archer "waterboards" an alien prisoner by slowly asphyxiating him by locking him in an airlock and initiating the decompression cycle.

On July 13th, 2006, Christine Axsmith, a software contractor for the CIA, was fired for criticizing CIA's torture policy in her blog post titled "Waterboarding is Torture and Torture is Wrong.".

Waterboarding is depicted during an interrogation scene in the 1978 film Power Play

Dunking is depicted in the Disneyland ride Pirates of the Caribbean where audio-animatronic pirates are shown dunking a magistrate in a well in order to make him reveal the location of treasure.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. on a Law and Order episode one of the policemen
dunks suspects head in toilet over and over until suspect tells where missing person (child?) is

I think the defendant's lawyer filed to have the admission withheld from the jury b/c it was obtained illegally.....the prosecutors were furious that the policeman, frantically trying to find the missing person, had badly damaged their case......of course, under W's system there would be no legal ban against accepting evidence obtained this way
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. here ya go
The modern practice of waterboarding, characterized in 2005 by former CIA director Porter J. Goss as a "professional interrogation technique"<1>, involves tying the victim to a board with the head lower than the feet so that he or she is unable to move. A piece of cloth is held tightly over the face, and water is poured onto the cloth. Breathing is extremely difficult and the victim will be in fear of imminent death by asphyxiation. However, it is relatively difficult to aspirate a large amount of water since the lungs are higher than the mouth, and the victim is unlikely to actually die if this is done by skilled practitioners. Waterboarding may be used by captors who wish to impose anguish without leaving marks on their victims as evidence.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. HOLY SHIT...
That is so damn sad...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
many a good man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I think you mean...
Holy FUCKING shit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat Apr 20th 2024, 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC