My son just told me something disturbing...

[The Doctor.]

I just picked my 12 year-old up from school.

We were talking as we do about current events. He does ask a lot of questions about why things are going on in the world, and I inform him of what I know. I go to great lengths to make sure that he understands that he is not allowed to have or state my opinions as his until he does the requisite research. He knows I do a great deal of research to substantiate my opinions.
As such, he is aware that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

Which is why he bothered to bring this up;

According to my son, on Monday morning in school, the principle came on the intercom/PA and asked the students to have a 'moment of silence to remember what Iraq did on this day five years ago'.

I grilled my son as any psychologist might to get any hint that he may have conflated or misunderstood what the priciple had meant.

I trust my son, I raised him to be very honest... especially when it comes to representing what others say with accuracy.

I will be writing to the principle. If this is true, if this can be corroborated or even admitted to, if he did do this... it is an outrage.

I have to leave for a while now, but if anyone has advice I'd like to hear it.

Such an abuse of so many young minds....

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Sigh.

Tell you want. Call the principal on the phone right now and ask him directly.

This is getting just plain weird.

This is the third thread in three days from a parent who heard something second hand from their kid, about something that was said about 9-11 in school.

And then there's endless comments about how that teacher/administrator should be immediately fired, reported to the disrict, they're probably child molestors, blah blah blah.

Now the thing is about teachers and principals is, they all have phones. In fact, they like parents to call them up and talk to them. So can't we just figure out what actually happened before jumping off the deep end?

[femrap]

19. I agree....call ASAP.

If he did say that, then call Superintendent. Principal needs to get on the PA and rectify this.

Do you think they get this crap from their Pug HQ or their churches?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. Honestly, I don't think it happened at all.

Well, maybe this one.

But the other two threads seem like a bad case of the he said, she said "telephone game.

[femrap]

60. Original Poster hasn't returned....

so Maybe It Never Happened or is this a case of Definitely It Never Happened (MINH or DINH)....lol! An analogy to the 9/11 theories. Bad joke?

[The Doctor.]

69. I knew well that I would not be returning for a time today...

Which is why I was sure to include this bit right here;

"I have to leave for a while now, but if anyone has advice I'd like to hear it."

I have every reason to believe my son.

I have no illusions of being the perfect parent with a perfect angel, but I have worked to instill the value of accuracy in him.

He even asked today... this was priceless... what I would get him if he could prove me wrong in a debate on any of the issues we talk about.

I told him, "Kid, I swear to you, if you can do that, you'll be the first sophomore in your high school with a Mercedes."
-And he knows by now that I will come through if he does. I've proven it time and again. (but I usually win)

So I will find out.

Thank you.

[femrap]

86. Wow...you'd buy your son an expensive car for winning a

debate with you? Wanna adopt me? I'd be happy with just an economical car that is good on gas mileage....but then I'm a bad corporate consumer.

If the principal said that, hope he is forced to retract the info via the same way he announced it.

[The Doctor.]

114. LOL! ....... no.......

I never said it would be a new one.

:evilgrin:

-That, and I highly doubt he has the tenacity and focus to best me in debate... yet.

[The Doctor.]

70. I'm not certain yet either... which is why I'd like to find out.

I give my son the BOTD.

If he's right, this is outrageous and it cannot go unanswered.

[Dorian Gray]

105. It's possible.

Even with this story, I might consider asking the teacher about the Announcement. Ask him/her if the principal mentioned Iraq in the message, as that's what your son reported. Hopefully he or she will be honest with you, and then you can take your complaints, if true, to the superintendant of the district.

[The Doctor.]

67. Well, considering I had appointments until just an hour ago...

I couldn't really do that.

I don't recall mentioning anything about jumping off the deep end either.

I don't write angry letters until it is time to do so. Any letter that I might draft would be more along the lines of, "I believe there may have been some confusion...", followed by an inquiry into how my son could have gotten the idea that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11 from what 'such an esteemed administrator' actually might have said.

I would not chastise or jump to conclusions.

Note the prolific use of the word "if" in the following statement; "If this is true, if this can be corroborated or even admitted to, if he did do this... it is an outrage."

I most certainly intend to find out "if" before becoming irate over this.

Thank you for your words of mitigation.

[Bluebear]

2. The principal is your *pal*

When you write. :hi:

[shadowknows69]

6. What school? Neo con High?

My jaw hit the floor when I read your post. That Principal's job should be forfeit for this.

[elehhhhna]

20. Pat Robertson Middle School and Rapture Embarkation Center?

[Joanne98]

104. Bingo!

[Bluebear]

26. Just a spelling correction :)

So the letter to the princiPAL is taken in the best possible light.

[TahitiNut]

99. GMTA

:rofl: But that principal is an unprincipled prince in his principality. :dunce:

[blue cat]

3. Time to call

the principle. That is unacceptable.

[BlueEyedSon]

14. No, higher... the school board

[madame defarge]

22. Yes! Take it to the school board!

I know for fact that that's who you need to talk to. Put it in writing & submit it to the board president & copy every member of the board, including the superintendent of schools. Just trust me on this.

[The Doctor.]

68. I understand...

And should the situation warrant it, I most certainly will.

However much I trust my son, I will not jump to attack without further evidence.

I felt that a letter to the principle would be the wise choice for the prospect of eliciting an unambiguous and damning response of some kind.
Most of the 'Pro-Iraq-War' sorts will zealously damn themsleves.

Then I will follow your expert advice.

Thank you.

[glitch]

91. Ask the principal if he did it. A true wingnut will be proud to admit it

And probably even believes it's true. Then it's go time.

[mrdmk]

93. Save the time of writing a letter, call for an appointment with the

Principle. Ask him straight to his face, did you say, "moment of silence to remember what Iraq did on this day five years ago". Then ask for clarification on the statement. If he says what seems to be implied with his statement, do not argue with him, thank him for his time then leave, then ask for a hearing with the school board.

You will need confirmation of the statement from other witnesses a.k.a. other parents and also other children of that school you may have a relationship with. At the hearing have the statements from yourself, other parents and children and all of Mr. Bush's statements that Saddam had nothing to do with 911. This will take time to perform, but the school year just started.

The reason for this procedure is that it will be on record with the school board and the Principle will think twice about saying something so ignorant.

[AwakeAtLast]

90. Only if you follow the chain of command

As a teacher, I know that no concern will be regarded very highly until the parent speaks with the Principal first. If they don't receive satisfaction, the Superintendent is the next person to go to. After that, the Board is there to hear what the parent has to say. Going over someone's head does not help any situation.

Just my $.02

[donco6]

110. Your .02 are correct.

Get the facts first, then if you're not satisfied, you go higher. I can tell you the board will ask, "Have you spoken with the principal?" It's the ethical thing to do.

[elehhhhna]

24. Yep. Principal has no principles. & get another parent to substantiate

this shocking example of hate speech. There's safety in numbers...plus faster results.

[tavalon]

87. Nope

Principal first.

[LisaM]

4. That's terrible! However, I wouldn't write

I would call or go in there and ask him so he doesn't have time to craft a response.

[blue cat]

45. If you go there

take lots of documentation where Bush has said that Iraq is not related to 911. Hard to argue with facts.

[Hubert Flottz]

5. I'd be upset too.

And a liar like that, shouldn't be anywhere near any little school children.

[Niche]

7. Report it to the school district. Sadly our children are getting false

messages and it frightens me for their future. All of our futures. Also, you should request that the school recants and tells the children the truth so that they don't hold on to the lie.

[DUgosh]

9. Superintendent and school board

He should be fired.

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

8. Our Country Is Fucking Doomed....

We're a country FILLED WITH MORONS, and MANY of these MORONS are in positions where they can influence those around them. In this case, high school students, who will no doubt take with them the LIES, FALSEHOODS, SPIN, etc. this "principal" is spewing to them.

We're creating a completely new generation of MORONS. It's up to responsible parents like yourself to filter through the BRAINWASHING, and raise an intelligent, honest child. If you don't, they'll grow up to be MORONS and continue in the effort to destroy this country for generations to come.

[The Doctor.]

74. My 12 year-old is Very bright...

but not yet in high school.

That makes it more heinous.

[jsamuel]

10. You must first confirm that your child is telling the truth.

After that... wow that is horrible.

[LuckyLib]

11. Get three other parents to verify that their children heard exactly the

same thing. Put it in writing and hand deliver it to the superintendent. This principal has to go, and they no doubt have a file 3 inches thick waiting for additional information such as yours. Good luck!

[don954]

12. If he had any respect from the smart or even aware students..

he doesnt now. Its amazing how little it takes to get a teen to disrespect you, most teens haven't had the "respect must be earned not given" beat out of them yet.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

My dear Dr_eldritch........

I agree with the other poster......Do NOT write!

Confront him personally, since this will no doubt catch him flat-footed.

Leave him no opportunity to be forwarned, at all.

His behavior was extremely abusive and must be stopped.

Just my two cents......

[The Doctor.]

73. How marvelously tactical Peggy...

Miss you much love.

All of my correspondence tends to be in writing, but I shall certainly make an exception as you are undoubtedly correct.

It would be best to make an appointment with the principle, sit down, and deal with his 'perspectives' right there.
The appointment would have to be made under a vague-but-applicable pretext of course...

Thank you love.

[DoYouEverWonder]

13. Since the principal did this over the public address system

I think you should get together with other parents who would be offended by this and present a unified front. A visit to a school board meeting would probably be appropriate.

[marions ghost]

17. absolutely

I would not confront the principal alone with this.

[FogerRox]

47. I would go over the head of the Princ. Sch. Board, or higher...

cant play nice with pukes, take 'em out.. NOW

[marions ghost]

52. agreed

directly wrangling with them is a losing game in every case. Need other supporters.

These people don't play by the same rules. Nicey nice is a waste of time.

[grizmaster]

15. I'd confirm that first

by having another parent you know ask their kids what was said. Once confirmed, go for the jugular

[NJCher]

16. if you're a psychologist, I don't have to tell you this but

Confirm the communication. Get verification from the principal firsthand yourself.

Then when it hits the fan, he can't weasle out of it.




Cher

[The Doctor.]

75. I would never *Say* I was a psychologist.... (n/t)

:~)

[phiddle]

18. I would start with a formal, written letter to the principal

informing him of the errors and demanding that he/she correct the statement over the intercom, "so as not to leave the children in ignorance". Subsequent actions on your part depend on the response you get.

[AnneD]

23. A moment of silence for those that died ....

is appropriate. To politicize it and cast blame is not.

Hell we have right wing fundies all over us every day for teaching growth and development, natural selection instead of intelligent design, etc. I say go for it, make a stink. Maybe if this happens enough, they'll keep politics AND religon out of the class room like they were always should have.

[tavalon]

88. Politicizing aside, this isn't a differing opinion

It's a lie not backed up by any facts. The principal is either ignorant or lying.

[Mr_Spock]

25. That principal needs to be fired

I would go apeshit if this ever happened to my kid.

Confront that SOB - make sure you are wearing a portable MP3 recorder with built in mike - they work wonders in situations like this.

[pnwmom]

27. The principal's behavior was outrageous, but

I'm also worried about your statement that you "go to great lengths to make sure that he understands that he is not allowed to have or state my opinions as his until he does the requisite research."

Telling your son he is not allowed to have opinions -- "requisite research" or not -- sounds awfully harsh and controlling to me.

It is one thing to say that a person's opinions have more validity if they're backed up by research; quite another to say that a child is not "allowed" to have opinions. Why turn every dinner table conversation into an academic debate? There is a time and a place for everything, and not every conversation has to be deadly serious.

[fudge stripe cookays]

32. Read that again

"go to great lengths to make sure that he understands that he is not allowed to have or state MY opinions as his until he does the requisite research."

The poster is trying to say that she does not want her son to become a parrot of liberal viewpoints, and wants him to have opinions of his own, but only after satisfying himself that what his mother has told him is correct.

I wish I'd been so fortunate when I was young.

[Sydnie]

38. I didn't take it as that at all

I read "I'm not willing to allow him to become a parrot of my views. I want him to educate himself and come up with his own views".

That's how I read it anyway.

[The Doctor.]

115. Re-read the post.

Fudge and Sydnie quite nailed that down.

Thanks to both.

[elehhhhna]

28. Also on 9/11...

1297

Scottish hero William Wallace defeats the English at Stirling Bridge.

Seems 9/11 is a great day to fight Government Oppression.

[barbtries]

29. that so sucks

on 9-11 i participated in a blogger memorial project 2996, and since then i've clicked on many, many participants' pages. the hatred and anti-muslim prejudice on the rightwingers' pages in some cases really dismayed me. One or two used the project as no more than a platform for preaching christianity as the only righteous belief. But here you have a SCHOOL PRINCIPAL blaming 911 on Iraq?!
omigawd....

[Duer 157099]

30. I would guess that very few of the kids even heard what was said

I have a 12-year-old son also, and while he would have caught it (since he hears Air America non stop at home), I know that most of his friends would not have, unless they had right-wing parents in which case it's what they would have heard no matter what was said.

I can't wait to hear the follow-up to this. My blood is boiling just thinking about what I'd do if it were my son's school.

[The Doctor.]

116. I will put whatever time I can into this....

I haven't a lot, but this is the place we all need to step up.

If I don't now, then I will feel the weight of another self-proscribed failure.

This requires attention.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

31. I Would Call The Principal And Say Thank You.

But do so while taping the conversation. If he thinks you are a fellow parrot-head, maybe he'll say something that confirms he did in fact say it. After he does, then you go for the throat.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

34. TAPING PHONE CONVERSATIONS IS ILLEGAL

in most states, unless you inform the other party you are doing so. Just ask Linda Tripp.
Also, that is sort of an entrapment, but... a really clever ploy nonetheless. (evilgrin)

[kilgore65]

35. I wouldn't say 'most states'

'Most states' say it's legal as long as ONE of the parties on the line is aware of the taping - meaning you. It is strictly forbidden in all states to wiretap phone convos that others are conducting.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

39. With All Due Respect, In 38 States It Absolutely IS Legal.

Course, wouldn't it figure that MA is one of the 12 damn states that does in fact consider it to be illegal.

So ah well. Point well taken.

[Sydnie]

40. But there is no law about having him on speaker phone with other

witnesses to hear his statements for themselves that I know of. I have done that several times myself and got satisfaction when they realized that others had heard it first hand as well.

That's what I would do in this case too. If someone is familar with shorthand and can take notes, even better.

[The Doctor.]

76. 'Absolument'

-In this state there is no "Expectation of privacy".

Hell, with the NSA program, there is no such thing as "expectation of privacy" anymore. I may just use that in court one day.

[Ariana Celeste]

96. Oh Christ.

That is dirty and fucking wrong, I don't care if it is legal in most states. :eyes:

What the hell is wrong with just confronting teachers and principals these days? Why is it everyone has to be tricky, or go to the school board?

I just got out of school a few years ago, and my mother didn't pull that shit. She called teachers and talked to them personally, or called whoever it was that did something she didn't like. And 9 times out of 10 they were able to talk about it civilly and there was no more problem.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

108. Well Yay For You.

But if it was legal in that state, there would be nothing dirty about doing it whatsoever. Not sure why you felt the need to respond so passionately to the concept.

In a situation like this where it may easily turn into a he said she said, sometimes it is better to be armed with legitimacy. Calling the teacher out on it directly may quickly yield a response of "I don't know what you're talking about, I said no such thing", whereas a voice of support such as "Hey, thanks so much for standing up like a patriot and saying that thing about Iraq and 9-11 like you did Monday. I wish more stood up like that" might yield a response that is far more telling and revealing of the truth.

But you have your own way of doing things. Yay for you. But I disagree with you completely that the tactic is wrong and dirty and rolly eyes and all that good stuff LOL

[Stinky The Clown]

33. There was a story in our local news just yesterday or the day before .....

.... about a local teacher being *escorted* out of school for yelling anti arabic crap when she saw two students working on some school project and their work had a couple of arabic words written on it.

This shit needs to be stopped ***immediately***

[Marnieworld]

36. Maybe he actually believes this

No one else has pointed out that, I don't know the current statistic but a startling number of Americans, maybe half?,believe that Iraq and Sadamm are connected to 9/11. The evil administration worked for years to rhetorically imply this and the MSM was complicit in perpetuating this falsehood. It could be that the principal is just a deluded freeper who thought he was actually telling the truth not spreading propaganda, in a sense a victim of propaganda. He should correct this falsehood with the students of course.

Perhaps you can call, verify this statement calmly (not as aggressively and combatively as some here suggested) and then correct his assertion and demand a correction over the same PA. If he insists it to be the case offer to send him links to so many sources available (any of the several statements from Bush or Cheney as of late, or that recent Senate Report from last Friday should do)either with email or mail. Give him a time frame for his education and retraction and inform him of your next step over his head if he fails to comply.

We are all Americans in this together. There are many of our fellow citizens that have been duped by a very bad administration and media. Sure, so many are very stubborn in their beliefs and find it frightening to have to adjust to a different, less comfortable reality and may refuse to let their comfy delusions go. They can be very agressive and are lost causes. Maybe this guy just doesn't know. Just a thought.

[FoxOnTheRun]

41. like this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztX_pcLN4eY

[Eric J in MN]

56. Good point. This could be ignorance on the part of the principal...

...rather than an attempt to trick the students.

[The Doctor.]

77. Then I must first ascertain culpability....

then counsel the uninformed...

[July]

63. Marnie, I admire your generosity.

Perhaps you are right, that the principal is not aware that he is stating a falsehood. How do you it? I am finding it harder and harder to cut slack to those who are so readily believing what the government tells them (or implies). You are a better person than I.

[never cry wolf]

81. This was my first thought too

I believe one statistic is something like 50% of murikans still believe Sadaam had WMDs, so I am sure at least 2 or 3 out of 10 people you pass on the street think he did 9/11.

That a principal is that uninformed is very disturbing but I find that more plausible than a principal knowing better being deliberately misleading.

It may be a dittohead blind allegiance to everything bush or it may be ignorance brought about by learning of world affairs through 5 minutes of 30 second sound bites sandwiched between sports and weather....

Again, I doubt it was an intention to deceive and feel it more likely stated out of ignorance....

No way to really know until a dialog is opened....

In any and every case, please make sure the record is corrected. Either the principal states a retraction or a truthful viewpoint is given equal time. If neither is allowed, go over his head to the school board....

[serryjw]

37. A friend had to go the her son't school today

because at 11 he has decided that he doesn't want to take a history class, since he knows it's all bushit!
Good Luck!

[Nashyra]

42. As a School Board member

Set up an appointment with the principal, ask him if he did indeed say that or even alluded to it, as a Democrat I don;t care if you pretend to agree at first glance. After he has said yes or no have him ask his secretary to come in and take notes of the conversation. SIGN the secretary's notes and ask for a copy. Send letter and notes to Supt. and the entire school board asking what is going to be done. This will create a situation in which the Supt. will have to acknowledge that he/she has taken action, the supt does not have to tell the board what he/she did. This ensures that ifthat teacher ever tried to retaliate you have the proof and the history documented.

[Swamp Rat]

43. Brave New World

[longship]

44. Forget the principal.

Go over the asshole's head and complain to the district administration, or to the school board. A jerk like that who would use his position to foist his politics on kids doesn't deserve to be put in the loop. He deserves to be disciplined.

I don't give a damn what others say about talking to him first. That would be wrong, wrong, wrong. It would only get you into a political argument with the jerk and give him ammunition to call you out for *your* politics. That's the way these people think; ideologues cannot help that. Their souls are damaged.

That's why this has to go directly and immediately upstairs.

[marions ghost]

51. I have to say that

I agree with your position entirely.

The parent doesn't want to get into some lame one-on-one argument with the principal. I agree--don't "talk to him first." Too risky in case he distorts the parent's position. OP should try to get some support and make a formal complaint to the administrators.

The principal deserves to be disciplined...not lose his job necessarily, but a fair warning is in order. This should come directly from his superiors.

I hope the OP does not find the school board to be of the same mind as the principal. Now that would be really disturbing.

[longship]

55. That's it in a nutshell.

I wouldn't fire the principal either. But I would tell him/her that this will go into his permanent file and any repeat occurance may jeopardize his status with the district. That's the only action I would take at this time.

A repeat incident would result in reassignment. And virtually any subsequent incident could result in termination for cause. For an educator, that is a career-ending event.

[FogerRox]

46. If true the Princepal needs to be fired outright, NOW.

[indepat]

48. Just more RW brainwashing

[helderheid]

49. You need to write the principle and superintendent.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[niyad]

59. welcome to DU!! ineresting that you do not think that a PRINCIPAL lying

about the facts of 9/11, and spewing that lie on the pa system, is a "big deal".

if the teachers and principals of our schools spew lies, and misinformation, then I want to know what the GD hell my taxes are paying for.

[MrSlayer]

53. My kid's teacher had them watch "In Plane Sight" on 9/11.

I'm going to speak to him about it on parent/teacher night.

[FogerRox]

57. Wooooah, In Plane sight.. that might be a little far the other way

I like "Everybodies gotta learn sometime", its a good intro.

[treestar]

54. Guy is too stupid to live, let alone be principal of a school

does he honestly think that? Or honestly pay so little attention to the news that he is mistaken on that? Maybe he just mispoke himself.

[SmokingJacket]

58. Your son could write, too.

I say, let 'er rip. Schools are part of the community, and you are allowed your voice.

[savemefromdumbya]

61. Presumably the Principal is a Republican?

[struggle4progress]

62. (1) Start by assuming that if the principal said such a thing, he said it

ignorantly rather than viciously.

(2) Call. Talk to the principal. Be nonhostile. Try to ascertain what happened.

(3) Have some documentation, such as a quote from Bush that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and a quote from the 9/11 commission, with (say) supporting links to official (or at least nonpartisan) websites.

(4) If the principal made the assertion, express concern that he is misinforming the students. This is important to you; students need a factual and accurate view of the world. Ask how he will correct the misstatement. Ask twice if necessary but don't push the point too hard. End on a positive upbeat note.

(5) etc etc. Don't be a jerk. But if the principal made the assertion, then:
(5a) Whether or not the principal promised to rectify the mistake, immediably write and mail to him a nice handwritten follow-up note thanking him for taking the time for the enjoyable conversation and expressing appreciation for his willingness to rectify the error. Keep a copy of the note for yourself. Follow-up in about a week with another phone call. If the results are unsatisfactory, move one step up the chain of command; rinse and repeat. On about the third iteration, you can start to sound a bit frustrated and impatient.

[never cry wolf]

82. Bingo! You nailed it S4P

Thoughtfully find out what happened, why it happened and if it did, what can be done to rectify it.

[tavalon]

89. Yes!

Direct and appropriate. Some sanity finally. Way too much jumping the gun and triangulating and avoiding talking to the directly involved parties being advocated here today.

[pstans]

64. Write to the Principal? How about the school board?

:shrug:

[RagAss]

65. Go right to the press...once you verify it happened...don't give ......

the school the opportunity to call your child a liar....

[dsc]

66. It is possible the principal simply misspoke

I think you at least need to see if that is the case. Iraq has been in the news and on people's minds. I can easily see him saying Iraq when he meant to say Afghanistan or the Taliban or even Osama. Assume he made a good faith error until he proves otherwise.

[HuffleClaw]

71. lots of good suggestions to deal with this

i like the idea of getting 'independent verification' of what happened. at least two others would be good, more even better. i'd also suggest obtaining a copy of the school boards 'code of conduct', when you go with the other parents to ask the principal about the incident. bringing along a letter inquiring about the incident is good too (not accusing, inquiring), as its documentation of this stuff that is always needed. i'd also be sure, during the meeting, to say something along the lines of, 'we wanted to get your input before talking with the media'. that should get things done pretty quick. once you've met with the principal, even if things have gone well, i'd still send a letter explaining the situation and what happened to resolve it (if anything) to the local school board (the board itself and each individual board member).
lastly, i'd be pretty sure that you are not the only parent who heard about this, so i bet it will be pretty easy to confirm what did happen.

[The Doctor.]

79. I would not do this because I think my son may have been harmed...

No, Indeed... it would be because he will have to suffer the harm of knowing the truth and dealing with mal-informed classmates.

[kentuck]

72. I would frame it as a matter of honest and factual education..

Assume that he may not have known. Inform him in a polite way that all investigations, including the US Senate last week, have concluded Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. In the name of honesty and a good education, it is best to be factual on such important matters. Although he would not be alone, since about 45% of Americans believe the same as he...

[The Doctor.]

78. That was my first inclination...

To do so matter-of-factly and with simple but not overwhelming substantiation in order that he might re-examine his precepts.

But I fear that may not be the optimal route.

I have followed your comments here for years now, kentuck...

Thank you.

[neuvocat]

80. Go ask the principal what it was that Iraq did 5 years ago.

If he lies to you then report him to the school board. He has a responsibility to tell the truth, not be dishonest.

[deutsey]

83. Is our principals learning?

:evilfrown:

[focusfan]

84. you shouldn't write this principal

but go and see him and tell him to get his facts straight.Iraq
had nothing to do with 9/11.Iraq is only for Bush's big bank
account.

[The Doctor.]

85. "only for Bush's big bank account."?

You have a bit to learn about this. Stick around and you'll be well educated on the matter.

[MyDogSpot]

92. My boss said something similar in an Xmas letter to subordinates

which is completely against the organization's rules of ethics.

I wrote an informative yet polite letter to the boss about how the Xmas letter's contents were misguided, even according to President Bush.

The boss's response was to impound my computer. Two hours later, it was returned to me--there was nothing on it that violated any regs on computer use. The boss realized that he had made a big mistake. I told my supervisor that I looked forward to reading the boss's following Xmas letter, which was last Dec's, and this time it was devoid of any political hyperbole whatsoever.

If it ever happens again, I will involve my senators.

[DemInDistress]

94. I can't believe that school has ALL republican teachers and

administrators. Wasn't there any other teacher who heard this announcement over the PA system? If so, why no
action if indeed a Democratic teacher also heard this crock of shit.

Recently a teacher somewhere was reprimanded or suspended for displaying flags in the classroom (maybe CO.) yet in this school no adult teacher stepped up to dispute that bullshit. It's hard to accept and I not calling you on it but for all of us please, go this week and confirm this outrage.


Thanks

[libhill]

95. Propaganda...

Even Bush - Cheney have admitted Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

[stepnw1f]

97. The Principal Should Be Fired! (nt)

[Ariana Celeste]

98. I just want to say...

and this is not directed at you, Dr_eldritch, but all the people going off in response to your OP, and the other 2 touching the same topic recently-

When my mom had a problem with a teacher or other official at the schools I went to, she called them personally when she had the time. She talked to them civilly, and most of the time, there was some sort of agreement reached, and there was no more problem, leaving my mom to walk away feeling much better.

You don't need to fire teachers and principals and whoever else because of a slip of the tongue or opinions you might not agree with. This is what many of us get pissed off at Freepers for! Listen to yourselves. Often this kind of thing can be easily resolved with a little talk. And if that doesn't change or help the situation, then go higher up.

[TahitiNut]

100. What's worse? Molesting a child's body or molesting a child's mind?

I'm an extremist when it comes to the ways in which we respond to physical assault (and battery) in comparison to how we respond to mental assaults (and battery). I regard a battery on another person's perception of the world and its reality to be far more severe and deserving of punishment/rehabilitation than many physical assaults. It's particularly egregious when it's done by a person vested with both public trust and authority. When 2 oz. of harm is done to hundreds of children, is it less serious than many pounds of harm to a few children?

I think we should have laws against lies by people in public office with penalties akin to perjury. They should be deemed to have taken an oath (to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth) upon assuming public office.

[Ariana Celeste]

101. Mmhmm.

So who decides? Who decides which opinions and ideas are right, and which are wrong?

You would want your child to hear everything you think is right, just as a Freeper would want their child to hear everything they think is right. Both would jump on someone in the middle. Both think the other is incapable of being open-minded, and both scoff at each other's truths.

So who decides? Because many Freeper's most likely would feel the same if a teacher or principal said something liberal. And many post the same kind of threads in their own community, many of them also go for the throat, call the school board, and fight to get people fired (and we on DU post threads about how closed their minds are, how wrong they are?)

[TahitiNut]

103. Stating an opinion as fact, or a falsehood as fact.

The first I'd regard as an assault; the latter a battery. It's really not rocket science. Due process and trial by jury work. No reason to reinvent that wheel.

Then there's mens rea - with which we distinguish between an intentional act as opposed to an accident. Reckless disregard also works.

Again - the system can accommodate it.

[LWolf]

102. We have "morning announcements"

every day. Our principal did not treat Monday any differently; it was just another day. Not a single teacher in the building even mentioned the anniversary. We were all busy with the business at hand; literacy, numeracy, inquiry, etc..

Still, so many American citizens have such a strong emotional reaction to the events of 9/11/01 that it doesn't surprise me that some admins and teachers may have felt the need to express something. Personally, I wish my fellow Americans would express the same intensity of grief over hunger, homelessness, joblessness, lack of health care, and domestic and community violence happening every day. It sounds like this administrator truly believes, or needs to believe, that we have a legitimate, non-corporate reason to be in Iraq.

That's the thing about emotional issues; people are always putting on the blinders to support them. I think removing the blinders and calling for some clear, objective sight, in this case, is in order.

[CarlVK]

106. Now you see why the neocons are such adept liars.

There are STILL so many people who believe their lies...even AFTER these self same neocons admitted they were incorrect.

Good lord, that's a type of blind loyalty upon which EVERY WORLD RELIGION stares in raw jealousy.

[yasmina27]

107. This reminds me

of last May when we went to our daughter's school for next (this)year for parents orientation. There was a display case filled with military recruiting garbage, including an Uncle Sam Wants You poster and a flyer entitled "Music and the Military". I was HIGHLY offended and was ready to call the superintendent. Then I slept on it. The next day, I called the principal, who wasn't available, so spoke to the assistant.

I started out with some non-related questions/concerns which were not addressed at the previous night's meeting. Then I asked about the display. He said that it was only up for "Military Recognition Day" (or something like that), had only been up since Monday, and would come down on Friday. I accepted that as a parent of a FUTURE student - if my child were a student at that time, I'd have had a holy fit.

I am a middle school teacher (gr 7 & 8) and believe me, if our principal did anything this stupid, I and a number of other staff members would have been to the office as soon as our schedules permitted to inform him of the truth and to insist that he correct his error. If he refused, I would have done it myself in my classes, in a professional way.

Best of luck, whatever course of action you decide to take. You've got a great support system here at DU!

[Name removed]

109. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yasmina27]

111. Sorry, looking back I didn't clarify...

this is an intermediate school for 5th and 6th graders. A bit young, IMO, for military recruiting.

[Name removed]

112. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yasmina27]

113. It would depend on the context

If it were part of career exploration, say - a college display per week, a week for the military, or by career interest - get your education as an engineer at So-N-So college, or get trained in the military as an engineer, no problem.

I don't think that recruitment material was appropriate at any level to honor "Military Appreciation Week" or whatever. A display of military memorabilia, sure.

I have nothing against the military per se, and have mostly only high regards for those who serve. I reserve my disdain for the current military leadership of this country.

[fujiyama]

117. If your child was indeed correct

this is an example of jaw-dropping stupidity on the part of the principal.

Like a few others said though, I'm a bit surprised no teacher or faculty member responded to this.

At this point, a majority don't believe Saddam had a part in 9/11, but a depressingly large perctenage do though.

I'd schedule an appointment with the principal and try to clarify, but first try to get in touch with some of your child's friends' parents. Perhaps a complaint by a larger number of parents would be more effective. Try to be concerned but not hostile and unlike the principal, make this as little about politics as possible. At this point, it's simply a matter of fact that no evidence exists to point Saddam or Iraq to 9/11 and presenting such theories as fact does a great disservice to young minds.

After all, even though they have played rhetorical games with this tryin to mislead eveyone into believing otherwise, even this administration will say in public when confronted that Saddam didn't have a part in 9/11 (though I'm sure he still thinks he had a part in it).

If it is confirmed the principal did say this, try to get him to clarify his comments and make a correction over the PA system as soon as possible. If he is uncooperative about all of this, then take this to the superintendant, and then the school board (I believe that would be the order - or something similar).