Bush Desperately Fighting War Crime Prosecution

[kpete]

Bush Desperately Fights War Crime Prosecution

Submitted by Bob Fertik on September 15, 2006 - 9
Why is Bush holding a sudden press conference today? Because he's desperate to avoid prosecution for War Crimes.

Holden nails it:
http://www.first-draft.com//modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=7170

My guess is he is going to emphasize the importance of re-writing clarifying Common Article III today. Why? Because he has authorized the torture of detainees held at Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib and in the CIA's secret gulags around the world.

Bush may not fear The Hague, but he is afraid of being prosecuted under War Crimes Act of 1996 http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00002441----000-.html (which he is also desperately trying to amend)http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5630790 because by ordering the torture of detainees, many of whom have died as a result of their treatment) in violation of Common Article III Bush has laid himself open to the death penalty. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A46659-2004May21.html

http://www.democrats.com/node/10027

[Annces]

1. A contemptible human being

I hope he gets prosecuted.

[twaddler01]

95. Did u just say "human being"?

:rofl: ;-)

[im10ashus]

2. May he rot in prison.

That would be vindication enough for me.

Edit to add:

Recommend. 2 for 2. :hi:

[WA98296]

16. But isn't Bush FOR the death penalty?

[lutefisk]

18. Oh, sweet irony! n/t

[calimary]

70. Indeed. Wouldn't that be something.

Indeed.

[twaddler01]

96. Behead the torturerer!

:toast:

[libhill]

99. Bye bye, Bush

n/t

[intheflow]

26. ..

:evilgrin: :rofl:

[DoYouEverWonder]

66. I can't wait to hear him beg

'Please don't kill me'.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

108. His defense might go something like this.... "But they tried to

kill my daddy..."

[babylonsister]

3. We need to be able to

prosecute these criminals. No amendments, especially for them!

[Cleita]

17. Or Presidential pardons after he leaves office.

[malaise]

4. This is great

We know his reasons well - fugging war criminal

[texastoast]

5. Oh my, did he just wake up?

Did he just realize what a puppet he is for the military industrial complex? They will leave him hanging. I'm so cynical that I wonder what they promised the shrub to take a fall.

[Uncle Joe]

49. Yes, if he believed in reading, he would have known

by reading the transcript from former General and President Eisenhower's fare well address to the nation warning about the dangers from the military industrial complex.

My ex wife and I, had a big debate about this prior to 2000, she actually said, he does not have to be smart, he can surround him self with smart people.

[saltpoint]

6. What say, for 2008, we elect someone with vision and compassion?

The incumbent appears to have neither, and as we move on, both are required.

I can't speak to the exact legal vulnerability of the president regarding War Crimes action(s), but speaking strictly for myself, I find him morally represensible on general principles.

My guess is many of our allies do also.

When the first hours of the Iowa caucuses are held, I think we'll feel better about being citizens of this country.

[Raster]

23. Let's elect someone with vision and compassion, like we did in 2000 AND

2004, and this time, let's make sure they are able to take office. Oh, and one more qualification, they can't be owned by the Texas Petroleum Mafia and/or the Military Industrial Complex.

[saltpoint]

24. The 2000 guy and the 2004 guy? You bet. I'll take either of 'em

over this petulant little monkey.

[libhill]

100. Neither one for me...

I want a candidate who will fight on 'till hell freeezes over, if these pricks try to steal another election. Gore and Kerry both caved in too fast, and I'm tired of seeing Dems throw in the towel to these depicaable MFrs.

[saltpoint]

114. Don't underestimate once-disappointed politicians. Both Gore and

Kerry are polling steadily, have access to serious cash, significant infrastrustures, and discernible support.

Historically, that makes them contenders.

[yodermon]

25. um, such a person would be immediately assassinated.

why do you think kerry rolled over? He knew he would be toast if actually inaugurated, especially given his knowledge of BCCI, Iran-Contra and the other various scandals.

[Raster]

32. Unfortunately, I have to agree. I knew, no matter what the vote count,

Kerry would NEVER be allowed to take office. Remember the Military/Industrial Complex that Ike warned us about? Well, guess what, they've teamed up with the Petroleum Mafia and they aim to make sure they bleed ALL OF US DRY. Yep, Kerry rolled. The horse head in his bed was probably the last straw.

[AndyTiedye]

33. Same For Gore. Then President Lieberman Would Have Given PNAC Their Wars

Lieberman was PNAC's Plan B for 2000.

[glitch]

40. I agree with you.

:mad: there needs to be an angry, head exploding, tin hat smilie.

[Raksha]

60. I think you're right.

I also think we need to get the word out about this. Let them know what we're thinking, and force them to DENY it, the bastards!

You know, "Some people say..."

[petgoat]

87. If Kerry was scared to serve, he had no business running.

Howard Dean wasn't scared to serve.

People who are afraid to die have got no business being in
public office.

[libhill]

111. AGREED

n/t

[twaddler01]

97. Its always the good presidents that get assassinated...

the bad ones always still live x(

[TahitiNut]

45. I'll shed blood for a Feingold/Kucinich ticket.

That's no exaggeration. Sadly, it'll never happen ... since we're cowards and appeasers.

[saltpoint]

46. Huh! Rumsfeld's criticisms of those who distrust him as a war

administration will balloon into much more visible failures when the historians sit down for that final draft of the Bush years.

Rumsfeld is not going to be looking very good in that assessment, and properly so.

Feingold and Kucinich are not only wildly refreshing souls, but entirely capable ones as well. If either of their names, or both, are on our ticket in 2008 I would feel privileged to cast a vote their way.

For me, one indication of a potential candidate's effectiveness as a thinker and a public servant in the big picture is the gage of hostility he or she draws prior to a campaign. Feingold and Kucinich, to choose your two guys there, have been the targets of some very nasty criticism -- and not just from Rumsfeld.

But since Rumsfeld is the Sec of Defense, I have to pick on him a little harder than I might some of the other PNAC fools, not that they aren't just as worthy.

(Before I proofread this post I saw in the first line up there that I'd typo'd "draft" and written instead "raft."
The final "raft" of the Bush years. Dubya, Dick, Rumsfeld, and Condi on Huck's raft, floating rudderless down the Mississippi toward shattered New Orleans, and on out to the oil-slick Gulf. A fitting end to this whole administration.)

[jazzjunkysue]

47. Right after I have their children. n/t.

[TahitiNut]

102. (grin) One of the advantages of being female ...

... is the ability to say that as the highest level of praise. If I tried that, it'd sound insane. So, I'm limited to saying I'd shed blood to see that ticket elected. Nowhere nearly as laudatory. (sigh)

:silly:

[BeFree]

7. One of two things

Either he resigns and runs off in hiding, or the long arm of the law snatches his sorry ass off to jail. And... he knows it.

You can see it in his face.

[Wickerman]

8. If Bush were tried for war crimes at this point in time

you'd see a rally behind the bumblefuck like never seen before. Hate to say it, but the media and the Right would present it as an attack on entire US of A and the voices of reason, as typical, would be drowned out.

[displacedtexan]

10. Sad, but true, I fear.

Bush* is a bona fide war criminal, but the backside of the Bell Curve would never admit it.

[NEOBuckeye]

38. Screw the Reich Wing; They can stand trial with him! n/t

[The Wielding Truth]

52. Yes, maybe that would help them think of other countries as having

human beings like them living there. Maybe they would understand that oppression breads terrorism. Maybe then they will think before launching unilateral wars and condoning torture.

[Raster]

9. One of the VERY FIRST ACTS of this illegal and immoral (p)Residency

was to withdraw the United States from the World Court, a body our own country had worked for years to establish. This was before any invasion, before Abu Grahib, before 9/11. The only logical conclusion to draw is that bushco* anticipated war crimes charges and premeditatedly engaged in criminal activities deemed worthy of a visit to The Hague. The man and his puppet-masters don't belong in the White House or Blair House, they belong in prison cells.

[Raffi Ella]

19. oh,I like how you titled him "(p)Resident"

So fitting.I've used pResident but your way says it with much more clarity.

And very astute assessment of that act about the World Court;The NeoCON agenda was in forward motion since day one.

Thanks for the post kpete :kick: K&Red

[intheflow]

31. A variation:

pResident Evil. :evilfrown:

[Raffi Ella]

34. lol. I like it.

The Devil Frown was a nice touch too.

[calimary]

69. Good point. Well worth reminding everybody about.

Just like - one of the first comments bush had was how it'd be a lot easier to govern if this was a dictatorship and he was the dictator. He wasn't making a mere joke then, even though the media that swallowed that statement that day giggled about it like schoolgirls. He was serious. About the only time he's actually said something truthful, also.

[global1]

11. It Is Time For The Repugs To Walk Into The WH And Demand That. * Resign...

or they will get behind impeachment proceedings. *CO will bring down the Repug party if they don't do something. Yesterdays stand by the Senate Committee is the first blow. If * proceeds to keep pushing - they will have no choice because if they go along with the way * wants to modify the laws - if/when the Dems take control of the House and/or Senate - the Repug Congress will be implicated as complicit in what *CO has been trying to achieve since they took office.

[EVDebs]

15. ....like Goldwater did to Nixon ?

No, this bunch of Rs in Congress can't see the handwriting on the wall just yet. After November...

[bleever]

72. Rememer that the chairman of the party at that time, George H.W. Bush,

wrote a key letter convincing Nixon to step down as well.

Motives were much different, I imagine, but oh the irony.

[EVDebs]

76. So, tee hee, maybe GHW Bush will try to 'save the party' by writing

another letter...?

[indepat]

12. If the frog stories have merit, every American should be concerned

with this preoccupation/fascination with and passion/zeal for torture.

[snappyturtle]

13. I watched a re-play this morning of yesterday's

Senate "hearing"...seems to me * is trying to hide behind the terms terrorists and enemy combatants. He doesn't get it---HE declared himself the WAR president....gotta follow the Geneva Conventions dummy. I hope that the congress critters that support * on this can be found guilty for aiding and abetting in the war crimes.

I have a selfish thought about this entire matter: I fear with the definition of Terrorists we could all become subject to military courts, tribunals etc. Is * really using this 'opportunity' to handle those he has imprisoned or for future use against the American citizenry? Can you tell I don't trust *?

Edit: K&R

[Cleita]

20. Since he's walking in the footsteps of Adolf Hitler, that

seems to be the path he is taking. Hitler changed the laws with his "Saturday surprises" (legislation rammed through when the lawmakers had gone home for the weekend) to enable his atrocities and make them legal.

[vickitulsa]

77. Here's how I see that aspect:

The Chimperor has long since gotten caught up in his own verbal inconsistencies. As you pointed out, he wants everyone to be thinking of him as a "war pResident" but he doesn't want to consider our enemies prisoners or follow the Geneva Conventions. This is a first class example of the conflicts in his administration that I think will do him in eventually.

I rather think Congress will not go along with the wording he has in mind, or has put out there for them, if that's been done already, for allowing torture and custom designing military "tribunals." If he wants to try them in military fashion, then that would make them, by definition, prisoners of WAR.

It just seems to me that when Congress actually reads the proposed legislation that Chimpy, Cheney, Gonzalez, Miers, and Rove come up with -- and I do believe they'll actually read this one -- they'll recognize right off the bat that it's an obvious attempt to both spread the criminality around and to cover his own ass with respect to a future prosecution for war crimes. I don't think they'll want to get in bed with that, no matter how much they want to save their party by maintaining a smokescreen for their pResident.

No matter how much blathering legalese they use to try to camouflage the true intent of tribunal legislation and new laws to allow torture, it will surely shine through quite clearly that what this administration really wants is to preclude prosecution for its own war crimes -- to literally get away with murder.

Imagine how the Simian One must feel when he thinks about what Tom DeLay and other Repugs are going through right now. Who'd have ever thought the powerful "Hammer" could be forced to resign and then going to court to answer for his criminal activities?

Or when Chimpy thinks about how Nixon went from sweeping into office for his second term by quite a margin to resigning in disgrace in a very short time.

He truly is following the very same path that Hitler did as he consolidated power for himself and eliminated any competitors for the people's loyalty or the reins of power. I'm working on an OP about that right now, after watching three programs on the History Channel two days ago: Gestapo Parts I and II plus an episode of "Histories Mysteries" about the fates of Hitler and all his thugs at the end of WWII. It was the Gestapo, together with the SS, that made Adolf's dictatorship possible -- not the army. He was afraid of his own army!

But Hitler and his men did not simply accept being deposed and captured, and they didn't want to die. Suicide was not the style of most of them, including Hitler, for that matter. Dying in battle, fighting to the last as they ordered the young and old "soldiers" and all German citizens to do was also not their style. They were cowards and lowlifes, just like Hitler himself, and they went to a great deal of trouble to PLAN THEIR ESCAPES.

I think we are wise to figure that the Criminal-In-Chief and all his cronies in powerful positions will be planning ahead carefully to escape prosecution by means fair or foul, also. The mood of the American people is already undergoing a sea change, and the tide is going against this administration.

I believe the angry tone Chimpy is taking in his speeches these days, the way he's trying to deliver "fiery" defenses of his policies and bumbled, criminal decisions, is all about the fact that he truly IS angry. He's pissed off that he's being called out on his criminal behavior and all the lies he keeps telling, and that people are defying him. We're not supposed to challenge him -- he's the Decider, the dictator! Or he'd prefer to be, by his own admission, a dictator. And it was NOT a joke, you can tell that by viewing him making that comment. He was dead serious!

So now he's fighting for his life, verbally and legally. He knows this could turn very nasty for him and all his pals very quickly. He surely must suspect that anyone not already committed to standing by him will be hardpressed to show themselves his firm allies from this point forward.

He can't help but feel the way everyone is pulling back from him, refusing to make strong statements in his behalf or in support of him. Think how that must feel from his point of view! I'll bet in private he goes around the West Wing muttering things like, "Damn traitors! Disloyal sonsabitches! Like rats deserting the ship!...."

Well, "Captain" Bu$h, it's YOUR ship and you're the only one who is obliged to go down with it....

And the above poster has it right about the frog stories from his youth. If indeed they are true, and I frankly believe them and can just see him as a boy laughing his hateful laugh in a higher pitch as frog guts are splattered all over. Not every person who torments or tortures animals and insects grows up to be a psychopath; but virtually every psychopath tortures and torments animals when he's young.

Cruelty is written in Dubya's very face whenever he speaks of our "enemies." He expected to be able to USE them to consolidate his power, but instead now he's having to deal with the whole nasty, long-drawn-out business of trying them in a respectable, legal way. NOT what he had in mind.

Reminds me of one of my mom's old saws: "Let's just shoot 'em and tell God they died."

In the end, the chickens will be coming home to roost; and I hope there's not one single nest with any room for Mister Boosh. It's a game of musical chairs, Dubya, and when the music stops, you're gonna be left standing all by yourself!

[Blackhatjack]

14. So has * bought insurance like the CIA interrogators? .....

....as an aider and abettor, and the person responsible for the implementation of the torture policies, I would think that insurance would come in handy about now!

[kentuck]

21. But the problem lies with the Democratic Party also...

In the House Armed Services Committee, there are 28 Democrats. Only 8 voted against the Bush proposal yesterday. :mad:

[Raffi Ella]

22. I heard that...

WTF!!??They've got the Democrats so scared they'll be called cowards that they are voting for something like this!??

I couldn't believe it when I heard Dems voted FOR this.

[Turbineguy]

27. HE Said it

"THEY don't want to be tried as war criminals". That would include him of course, although he hardly qualifies as a professional.

[malaise]

30. I just post this exact view on the official thread n/t

[Turbineguy]

43. Gadzooks!

I just can't keep up!

[WhiteTara]

28. I wonder if he will have someone mock him

when he says "Please don't kill me" like he did to Karla Fay Tucker

[WI_DEM]

29. I doubt Bush fears this--he thinks he is above the law

[PATRICK]

35. Very possible

remember in the run-up to the Iraq invasion Bush spent some considerable effort getting immunity and exceptionalism in advance for this supposed cakewalk through flower strewn streets. Even American private guards enjoyed this lawless immunity with the results we now see.

As a run up to Iran, this so-called protect the troops and interrogators crap is probably more power and cover for the Pretzeldent and his team. All the dirty options, including nuclear strikes are having their way paved. Bush won't wait for the next terror attack to give him more blank checks but he does expect and will cash in on any war violence upcoming even if he is the clear aggressor. After the elections should the wounded(and Rove beholden) GOP cling to power it will be seen as a mandate for all this garbage that can't pass now, including perennial favorites like pork barreling Social security for the rich, eliminating accountable elections and cementing Corporate ownership of media.

Thanks to the news media whose pap coverage makes this bold-faced power grab appear legitimate.

[jazzjunkysue]

48. Apparently, not any more. Now that he's trying to re-write the law, it

seems he's feeling quite vulnerable.

[cobalt1999]

36. Bush is NOT afraid, or desperate to avoid prosecution.

Impeachment, maybe...but even that is remote.

Sorry, no way does a US president or former president EVER get prosecuted. The uproar in this country would be unbelievable. Even many of those who don't approve of Bush wouldn't support this. It would turn into a US vs. the World attitude.

Sorry, but Bush has nothing to fear on that front.

[Subdivisions]

39. What the hell are you talking about?

[cobalt1999]

42. No US president will ever face an international trial.

No way, even if it is deserved. I know it and you bet Bush knows it.

[vickitulsa]

84. It wouldn't turn into a US versus the world situation

if he were tried IN the United States.

I think there's a far greater chance he will be indicted and tried here than in any international court. Just because no U.S. President or former President has ever been prosecuted for crimes before doesn't mean there couldn't be a first time.

Everywhere I go, I hear people of all stripes talking about how Bu$h is the Worst. President. Ever. It's not only Democrats who are saying this -- it's everybody. Most people I know don't think in terms of being Republican or Democrat very much; to them, it's all a matter of how a person behaves when in office. So many are disappointed in Mister Boosh, in a big way. I believe they're angry to the point of fuming at how he lies to us, gets us involved in an endless war unnecessarily, and turns the entire world against us. People tell me they're shocked at how he keeps breaking the law and then trying to change it to suit him.

Americans knew our country wasn't loved by everyone before the Chimperor took over, but now we're so hated you can almost FEEL it coming at us from every part of the planet. No one likes this, it's a wretched situation.

I think Baby Bu$h is feeling it, too. I think he really IS scared, at least a little bit, because he knows full well that IF he ever has to answer for his crimes, he'll be in big trouble. He hates being defied and would not bear up well if he is confronted with the totality of his criminal actions and compelled to answer for them.

Someone upthread said Chimpy would not fare well in prison, and I'm pretty sure he himself doesn't think he could handle it well. But I've been there, and I've seen how different personalities handle incarceration. Guys like Dubya get so scared they cry and piss on themselves at first, and they learn very quickly to find a big strong inmate to suck up to and receive protection from -- at any cost to their pride. Or they try to get on the guards' good side and may even stoop so low as to become snitches, dangerous though that is.

Of course, even if he were to be tried and convicted and sent to serve prison time in a U.S. penitentiary, he would not be placed in the "GP" or general population but would instead be housed in an "admin seg" wing for his own protection. That would be okay with me, too, since admin seg is just the modern name for "the hole." Time spent in there is not much better than it was 100 years ago -- which means it's VERY tough for most people to cope with. For more gregarious types who need to be around others, basically to bully them and receive their adoration, it can be even worse.

But some personalities adapt quickly and well to the society inside prison. They know that whatever ways they had in the free world of avoiding negative consequences and maintaining a position of power just won't work on the Inside. If they have any brains at all, they drop their attitude and learn the ropes. Even if they had very limited power before, they learn upon entry into The System that they have NONE from now on.

Prison guards must have control of inmates, and if one resists, breaking that one is imperative, lest others follow his example.

The sad thing is, even if Chimpy is incarcerated, that won't repair the damage done to our country. He certainly should pay for what he's done, but unfortunately we're all going to be paying for it for a long time.

[NEOBuckeye]

37. Bush SHOULD fear The Hague

Because when we take back power, that's where his lame ass is headed.

[sandyd921]

63. Too bad they're too civilized

to torture him after he's sentenced for war crimes.

[Vincardog]

41. Little george bush = DEAD MAN WALKING

[file83]

82. Don't you mean = DUMB MAN TALKING??

[Ioo]

44. LETS FIGHT TO INDICT!!!

COme on, lets get some AG somewhere to bring the charges!!!!

[bamacrat]

50. Hope he shares a cell with Saddam.

that would be funny.

[DoYouEverWonder]

51. He's setting up his own defense

That's what this press conference was all about. He's claiming the law wasn't clear. It was open to interpretation. He didn't do anything wrong because the law was ambiguous. He had no choice but to change the rules because it was a time of war and 'American' lives were at stake....

[Hobarticus]

53. Death penalty for Bush? Nah....

Even though he's C-in-C, it'll be some schmuck private who takes the fall.

But, it's there in black-and-white:

(a) Offense.— Whoever, whether inside or outside the United States, commits a war crime, in any of the circumstances described in subsection (b), shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for life or any term of years, or both, and if death results to the victim, shall also be subject to the penalty of death.
(b) Circumstances.— The circumstances referred to in subsection (a) are that the person committing such war crime or the victim of such war crime is a member of the Armed Forces of the United States or a national of the United States (as defined in section 101 of the Immigration and Nationality Act).

[AntiFascist]

54. K&R, he should have thought of this before deciding to torture. n/t

[JackDragna]

55. If you seriously think Bush will ever face any charge whatsoever..

..for anything, you're living in another world. Those who travel the circles of ultimate power are not answerable to the powerless. It's bloody frustrating, but it's the truth.

[Cleita]

65. Legally, no, but he will be a hunted man.

Those whom he has desecrated will have a bounty on him. I don't think he will live that long though. He's already on self-destruct. Once he leaves office, he will probably drink himself to death.

[Cobalt-60]

86. Let's buy him a round

Perhaps when he does vacate the white house we can provide him with enough free liquor to finish the job.

[calimary]

105. I suspect he'll wind up like Kissinger, if he never is brought to justice.

He'll be stuck inside the borders of the US for the rest of his life. He won't be able to travel because there will be other countries that will have designated him a war criminal - to be arrested the moment he sets foot on their soil. So he'll be stranded here to avoid prosecution. Not that he cares, mind you. And he doesn't like to travel anyway. Even so, there'll be standing arrest warrants for him overseas. I'd bet on it.

[Cleita]

109. One thing he will have that Kissinger has avoided is an

enemy who will not hesitate to try to assassinate him here in the USA. All the countries Kissinger trampled on don't have political extremists with an eye for an eye ideology of retribution. Most would rather forget and get on with their lives. They don't want to end up in prison for assassinating Kissinger, but you can bet your sweet bippy, that various Middle Eastern extremist political cells will have a bounty on him. They will have no problems with becoming martyrs.

He will probably never be able to move around freely again as long as he lives and as I said, he will probably drink himself to death anyway.

[libhill]

112. Not so sure -

even the wealthy and connected can't fight the whole damn world, and most of the world wants this fools head on a platter. They should go after Cheney while they're at it. I suspect he's the mastermind behind the hand puppet... and even Hitler thought he was above it all until the Russians started closing in.

[Cleita]

113. Yes, and the Russians were once buddy, buddy with Hitler

until he gave them parts of eastern Eastern Europe that Russia wanted.

[Swamp Rat]

56. It won't work.

They WILL be charged with war crimes eventually.

[AntiFascist]

57. Let's not beat around the "bush"....

the only thing torture is consistently good for is getting people to confess to crimes they did not commit, or perhaps getting them to "forget" certain information. I wonder how this might factor into the administration's tactics?

[Bitwit1234]

58. Get thru his term

You have to remember that even tho bush might get thru his term he would still be subject to impeachment, prosecution for war crimes and jailtime after he leaves office. He would still be on the hook for all these crimes.

[mike_c]

59. this is very interesting....

I am completely opposed to the death penalty, and would have to advocate leniency for Bush and the members of his War Cabinet. Life in prison without possibility of parole will just have to do in a civilized nation.

[Laurab]

74. The death penalty would be too good for him

Even if I supported the death penalty, which I don't, I think it's the easy way out. He wouldn't deserve the easy way out. Life in prison for Bush would be hell. Even if it wasn't the civilized thing to do, I'd prefer it, for him and his closest friends.

[texpatriot2004]

61. Yeah! * can get the death penalty. I leap for joy at the thought

of him being executed for his crimes.

[many a good man]

62. Beelzebubba, the Torture President

I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH! I SHIT ON YOU BUSH!

[moondust]

64. Perhaps he will go into hiding.

Like Milosevic's pals in Serbia.

Even if he gets his "rewrite" passed by Congress, no other countries will be bound by it.

[and-justice-for-all]

67. Meet pResident Prison Bitch!

They better nail his ass and those fucking goons of his!

[calimary]

68. I was just talking about this myself in another thread.

I think that's primarily why you see a new and aggitated sense of "urgency" in his voice, face, and general demeanor. He needs that rewrite, BADLY. BADLY.

I think James Baker or another one of the gray eminences surrounding his dad has come to him in confidence, warning him that he's in serious legal jeopardy. His idea to get out of that fix is, of course, to have the laws changed to cover his ass. "It says here it's illegal? Well, then, CHANGE the fucking LAW!" And now, some of his most prominent rubberstampers don't want to play anymore, even having the nerve to rebuff him after he leaned on 'em for, what? Five hours yesterday" And invading their space to do so, on their turf, on Capitol Hill? And baby didn't get his way that time. Something else he's completely unaccustomed to, and ill-equipped to handle: not getting his way. The fact that he's not getting his way on something like this, that has serious, even lethal international ramifications, in an international arena peopled by millions who have come to hate and despise him, where he wouldn't be able to sic rove or cheney on them, is undoubtedly starting to sink in. Hence the angry outbursts and near-hysterics.

I think he knows he's in BEYOND-serious hot water, and some of his enablers aren't eager to play or obey anymore. How dare they, anyway? Don't they realize who he is? (Hint: maybe they're starting to.)

[many a good man]

71. I'm beginning to think Beelzebush is not going to finish his second term

And its not gonna be impeachment.

Spideyhole

[leesa]

73. Turley said on KO that the detainees that were just transferred to Gitmo

were interviewed and that it was probably going to be anounced within days that they were tortured with "waterboarding" which means Bush and Co are guilty of violating International and National war crimes. This is the clock he needs to beat.

[BlueStorm]

92. what is waterboarding?

Exucuse my ignorance. I have seen this term on here before but I don't know what it is.

Blue

[jmowreader]

94. There are two definitions

Officially, "waterboarding" is where you cover the person's face with plastic sheeting, then dump water over him. Supposedly, a severe gag reflex, like you're drowning, hits you and you'll say or do anything to get it to stop.

What they actually do: imagine a see-saw. Little kids' toy in a playground, but this one just made out of a piece of 2x12 lumber draped over a pipe. At one end of it is a wading pool full of water. You tie the person you're going to waterboard to the wading-pool end with his feet pointing at the fulcrum, then dunk him head-first in the water and hold him under for a period of time--usually a few seconds at a time. This does three things: makes blood rush to your head, puts you in a severe panic attack, and sticks your head underwater in such a way that you can't escape but that you CAN drown.

Needless to say, it's a very effective way of getting people to talk.

Unfortunately, it's not so good if you want people to tell you operationally useful information. Torture has this NASTY way of convincing people to give information that gets our guys killed wholesale.

Everyone here needs to find and read Orrin DeForrest's "Slow Burn."

[BlueStorm]

103. Thanks for enlightening me...

Maybe I'll Google an image of it so I can get a better idea. Though I must say this is a very medieval way of torturing someone.

Blue

[jmowreader]

104. Is there a modern way to torture someone?

Besides electricity, most torture techniques date to the Spanish Inquisition.

Which, of course, nobody expects.

[BlueStorm]

115. I kinda figured that...

To add on to your question, is there really an original way to torture someone? The dark psyche of man can be really chilling.

Blue

[lisainmilo]

75. Not only the detainees....possibly in Iraq War if Microwave Weapons used.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13129.htm

Watch video

[L0oniX]

78. I hate George W Bush ....the damn ASS CARROT

GGGGRRRRRRRRRRR

[Goldfish]

79. My question to *:

"Would you be willing to undergo the extreme torture
techniques that you advocate, such as waterboarding and sleep
deprivation?"
I think * needs to know what real pain and humiliation feels
like before he goes around touting their use.  The same goes
for the neo-con cabal.  

[Mr_Spock]

80. "OPEN TO THE DEATH PENALTY"?

Wow, wouldn't that be sweet.

...and I'm against the death penalty too - though if anyone has committed atrocities deserving of such...

[kerry-is-my-prez]

81. He also lied & said they "weren't tortured" check this out....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5325772.stm

On Wednesday Mr Bush admitted the existence of the secret jails but said they were now empty and the remaining 14 inmates - who also include al-Qaeda suspects Ramzi Binalshibh and Abu Zubaydah - transferred to Guantanamo.

He said the CIA treated detainees humanely and did not use torture.

[GETPLANING]

83. When Bush appears at the gates of Heaven,

he will be met by Karla Faye Tucker and Teri Schiavo, who will say, Sorry, you're not on the list. Try downstairs."

[mnhtnbb]

110. But first, he will be routed to Jimmy Carter's Sunday school class

for about a thousand years.

[HuffleClaw]

85. he can't make any changes retroactive though.

so he's screwed in any case.

[intaglio]

88. His biggest problem is that he can NEVER go overseas

Without risking arrest for war crimes. He may change American Law but he would have to change International Law to avoid that. War crimes prosecutions only happen at the Hague if the country where accused is living is taking action to investigate and prosecute. If no process then the Hague can issue an International Arrest Warrant.

[focusfan]

89. i hope Bush goes to jail

and becomes some faggots Bitch:thumbsup: :loveya: :pals: 

[rocktivity]

90. They must truly be scared that Dems will win in November

this wouldn't be happening otherwise.

:headbang:
rocknation

[earth mom]

91. Wasn't he facing punishment when he went AWOL too?

He got out of that one...so to his way of thinking he'll get out of this one somehow too.

I want to see him punished for his crimes in the worst way, but my gut feeling is that he will weasel out of it again! :grr:

[HardRocker05]

93. Who is going to prosecute him? Even dems would never let a POTUS, even *,

be prosecuted for any such thing. Face it, most americans think Americans are above the (international) law, and the POTUS even more so. There will never be any accountability for most of those at the very top of the administration, or for members of congress who were complicit in the disaster and war crimes of Iraq.

[FourScore]

106. Exactly.

Which is also why the truth about 911 will never officially come to light. Of course, Bush didn't do that. He's too much of a dimwit. Someone else was at the helm that day. Like, Dick Cheney maybe.

[libhill]

98. Aw, come on....

so he lied to start an illegal war, and he's authorized the death by torture of who-knows-how-many-detainees, jeez. I mean, it's not like he got a blow job in the White House or something really heinous.

[David Zephyr]

101. Thanks, kpete

:thumbsup:

[kpete]

107. All of you are SO VERY WELCOME

great conversation going on here - I love it when I can post something interesting to me and have all of you elaborate on it - until it becomes even more clear - In this case that Our president is a criminal - kpete