Oldest writing in the New World discovered

[mikelewis]

A slab inscribed with the oldest writing yet discovered in the New World has been discovered in the Veracruz lowlands in Mexico.

The writing dates back nearly 3000 years to the height of the Olmec culture that was the first Mesoamerican civilisation, Mexican archaeologists report.

Called the Cascajal slab, it had been rescued along with other artefacts from a quarry at Lomas de Tacamichapa, in 1999, where it had been destined for use in road fill.

Isolated symbols have been found on a few Olmec artefacts, but the slab is the first solid evidence of a true written language, says Stephen Houston at Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island, US, who helped analyse it. (The slab is pictured to the right – scroll down for a clear drawing of the inscribed symbols)

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn10076-oldest-writing-in-the-new-world-discovered.html


Will anything the U.S. does last 3000 years? Will we even last 300?...

Anyway, I just thought this was cool and wanted to post it.

[Speck Tater]

1. Our legacy...

Will anything the U.S. does last 3000 years?

Styrofoam cups and Twinkies.

[NuttyFluffers]

21. and thus i've now concluded what my pyramids shall be comprised of...

suck it Giza, my pyramids are going to outlast the cockroaches! my styrofoam and twinkies Pyramid to the Sun awaits!

[Selatius]

2. Our interstates might last a century or two, that's it though

Our roads were never nearly as robust as the roads the Romans built. Asphalt doesn't last as long as concrete made with volcanic ash, which is what Romans used.

[TahitiNut]

3. It looks like a shopping list.

[BrotherBuzz]

5. Jinx! LOL

:rofl:

[The Straight Story]

6. It says: "Beware the bush man, vote democrat" (nt)

[Selatius]

9. 35 is a table, and 36 is a couch.

The rest looks like bugs, pineapples, and corn.

12 and 60 look like ice cream cones.

29 looks like a tootsie roll.

[BrotherBuzz]

12. 35 a knock-down cabinet and 36 is a futon

We're going to Ikea!

[bhikkhu]

18. Perhaps a catalog of "marital aids"

[bhikkhu]

20. but seriously, there has been a lot of speculation based upon

similar or identical artistic conventions of a china/olmec connection. Does anyone here have any knowledge of older chinese character styles (grass style or other), to say whether there might be a correspondence?

[Jed Dilligan]

24. Here's a Shang oracle bone

Frankly, I don't see the resemblance beyond "simple line drawings." Shang is very angular, Olmec is organic.

[bhikkhu]

37. True, there doesn't seem to be any resemblance

And I dug up a few more illustrations of Shang and An-Yang inscriptions (in books, so no link), no particular correlations.

Most likely the Shang script is angular for the same reason and old Eurpopean runes - working a straight scratched line into a hard substance is fairly easy, while making a curve is difficult. About the only easy way to form curves is with ink on a smooth surface.

Which is another interesting thing about this find - it is engraved on hard stone, using a script which was very unlikely to be developed for working on stone. Suggesting that the Olmecs may have, like the Mayans and Aztecs, traditionally written on paper.

[TahitiNut]

38. ... or hides.

For hunter-gatherers and herdsmen, hides would be far more of a utilitarian commodity than paper (or even corn husks).

The curvilinear inscriptions also suggests to me a hammer/chisel inscription method rather than an awl or scribing tool. It makes me wonder about other "civil markings" and the common cultural level of symbolic literacy.

I'm almost totally devoid of any studies into archaeology or ancient civilizations. Something akin to Michener's novels is about it. I just wonder about the implications regarding the GENERAL population's familiarity with such disinterred indications of written symbology. It seesm to me that the implied techniques have implications about how such skills are developed for daily use. Some inscription techniques can be easily regarded as closely-held, like in a secret society or priesthood. Others, like hammer/chisel, would seem to indicate something more generally done yielded the tools and skill set. (Maybe I'm just brain-farting.) :shrug:

[Jed Dilligan]

40. Very good point

Historical mesoamericans made paper out of maguey fiber and wrote or painted with brushes and various pigments. The stone carvings resemble brushstrokes, which would indicate a very long tradition of non-durable literature leading up to the stone.

[Taxloss]

36. Stranger things have happened:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4713323.stm

[BrotherBuzz]

4. Cool!

I can't make heads or tails out of it. Shopping list?...:shrug:

[ruiner4u]

7. im worried about number 11...

does this mean they invented pac-man?

[BrotherBuzz]

11. Well, after we find number 11 we'll get an ice cream cone

Check number 12

[hootinholler]

28. Nope, but # 30 does. n/t

[Jed Dilligan]

25. On a global scale, you are probably close.

Chances are this is an accounting of trade goods or goods demanded in tribute.

This is probably the 10th-century BCE version of shopping, when most consumers (rather than producer-consumers) were high-ranking nobles or royalty.

[itsrobert]

32. I can't make heads or tails about the "pictures" but

I recognize those numbers. Very close to how we write our numbers today.

[smirkymonkey]

39. Yes, they must have been incredibly advanced.

Not just because of their numeric system, but also the fact that they could post the link on the internet! Incredible!

[BlueStorm]

33. 13 looks more like a nuclear missile or a fish... n/t

[semillama]

34. Keep in mind we don't have the slightest idea how to read it

Is the image even right side up? and if it is, does it read left to right? right to left? up and down?

Looks like there are three ant-like bugs, off the bat. Plus the ants seem to be in close association with what looks like a tulip-like flower and a beetle (1+2; 23, 24 and 26; 50, 51, and 52). I'm betting that 19 and 35 represents a temple or altar. 7 and 40 are maize. 36 and 43 sort of resemble chacmools to me. There also seem to be sacks (10, 25 and 39). The glyph that looks like it has 3 feathers attached to the bottom also appears three times - 8, 41, 62. 8 and 41 in particular follow the corn glyph. There's at least two fish - 13 and 42. 6, 29 and 37 may be stylized birds, parrots perhaps.

[Taxloss]

35. #8 clearly represents Mighty Cthulu. n/t

[nebenaube]

8. hmmm...

More practical, for instance a farm's map? Identifying plots of various crops relative to the location of tools and seed stock?


Disclaimer: I claim credit when he figures it out...

[Jed Dilligan]

26. Good guess but unlikely

There was no large-scale agriculture. No literate farmers. No single farm operation that could hire highly specialized artisans to draw up plans. The priestly/noble class--this is judging from subsequent traditions, since the Olmecs are largely unknown--would have drawn their support from many, many peasant smallholders. The priests did not manage or operate the farms themselves.

My guess is that this records a transaction (trade or tribute) between two tribes or nations.

[nebenaube]

30. really?

I think you underestimate the people. If they were sophisticated enough to have a noble class structure, they could doodle out a simplistic five acre map on clay to facilitate communication within their community.

[Jed Dilligan]

31. Could you explain "facilitate communication"?

The question is why, not whether or not they could. Anyone "could" do anything; we aren't any smarter than our Neolithic ancestors. Economics determine what techniques are developed and which ones aren't.

Sure, the Olmecs could have drawn a much more than "simplistic" map of many more than five acres. But their system (conjecturing from Maya, Toltec, and Aztec systems) did not require the management of large-scale farms. Peasants worldwide are capable of managing five or many more acres in their heads, without drawing maps or making lists. The Olmec peasant would have farmed as he had for several thousand years before the dawn of cities/states/writing. The same is true in Egypt, where grain is grown on the Nile flood plain exactly as it was even before pharaonic times. The difference for the peasant, when civilization comes, is that some part of his crops are offered to the god/king, thereby enabling a non-productive class to exist.

The priestly/noble, in other words non-productive class of the Olmecs would have been concerned not with farming techniques but with matters of religion, civil engineering, and the state--hence, the probability that the writing, since it seems to show goods, is a record of an inter-state transaction.

[alfredo]

10. Peeps will last 3,000 years.

[Richard D]

13. Please don't tell me . . .

. . . people eat those things?

[Tanuki]

15. They don't just eat them....

they use them in recipes!
http://www.topoimagery.com/peeps/salad.html

[Richard D]

19. I'm speechless.

[NuttyFluffers]

22. don't worry, i'll use them as crown molding on my mausoleum

an eternity of worshipful marshmallow bunnies and peeps. might as well make the archaeologists think they were a symbol of divine protection or something if they're gonna outlast all of us.

[11cents]

14. If we inscribe it on stone -- sure it'll last.

But what did the Olmecs have to say? Anything as good as "Moby Dick?"

[alfredo]

16. There once was an Olmec from Oufuc....

[Swamp Rat]

17. Thanks!!!

:kick:

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

23. It translates as "My Pet Goat"

What goes 'round comes 'round. :shrug:

[mikelewis]

27. LOL

I really did laugh out loud.

[eShirl]

29. "Will anything the U.S. does last 3000 years?"

Plastic is forever.