What IS worth dying for?

[salinen]

Democracy. Anything else moves towards slavery. This present government, those who coddle the "K" street whores, have choosen to disregard the past generations who died for an ideal. They are persuaded by interest that defile the constitution to preserve their loftiness. It's self interest gone amok.

Two distinct forces are pulling us away from freedom. The PNAC crowd have desires of total world dominance. This would accomplish having control over all the worlds resources. Think of it as a large corporation with designs of crushing all competition.

The other force is religion. Democracy and religion are oil and water. One is dedicated to the free spirit in Man. The other is restrictive and controlling.

Today, those forces that seek to enslave are dominant. It might best be called Authoritarian. It succeeds mightily in an atmosphere of fear and apathy.

Democracy will only flourish when the citizens are smart, tough, and willing to stand up to those who wish to suborinate others.

[liberal N proud]

1. We may have to fight right here for our own liberty

While we are fighting for their liberty over there, we are loosing our own liberty here.

[FtWayneBlue]

2. What is worth killing for?

Nothing - at best.

Possibly responding to an imminent threat to one's life or the life of the powerless - just possibly.


Politics or religion - never.


Revenge - never.

"Let he who is to begin a journey of revenge first dig three graves."



As a side thought - wasn't Hitler credited with inventing preemptive war?

[The Magistrate]

4. Not By Many Millenia, Sir

[The Straight Story]

11. Several things jump to mind

self-defense
defending one's children
defending others in general
freedom

[Deja Q]

3. The citizens only care about that blue-light sale at K-Mart.

Low prices are good.

High prices are not.

Here's one example, for which I was sitting 10 feet away when listening to these dingdongs prattle: People give up their local hairstylist's $20 fee just to drive 15 miles to get the $12 deal at costcutters.

(then they probably whined about poor service... then ask their local hairstylist to go work for costcutters... :eyes: but that's conjecture based on how many people tell me that geek squad is a crap organization and then suggest I ought to go work there because I'll improve their rep! Uh, I charge good money because I'm good. geeksquad charges piss-little and provides so-so service because they're a big corporation and can get away with it and know people are slaves to brand names.)

The middle class is dead. Deservedly so. People want big brand names, regardless of quality. If the name's been around, that's all they care about Not REAL communities.

Sorry to be apathetic. Peoplewatching is a hobby I don't bother with anymore. I've got my own life to take care of and I'm not wasting it on those creeps.

[RB TexLa]

5. My wife's life

Would be the only thing I can think of.

[madmusic]

6. Even Nietzsche thought religion could be healthy for some.

And he was right. It is not religion per se, but phony, organized religion that ruins it for Christians.

Is there anything REAL enough to die for? During the War of Independence, the fight was real. The battle for ideals and freedom was real. That is another reason BushCo's propaganda is so devastating to democracy. Not only is BushCo out to deny everything our Founding Fathers fought, killed and died for, they are sabotaging the reality and passion of that fight.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. My wife. Dying or killing for "democracy" is very un-democratic.

“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy.” - Gandhi

[Coyote_Bandit]

8. Better question

What is worth LIVING for?

Everybody dies. Not everybody truly lives.

[bobbolink]

9. great thought! those of us without homes surely aren't truly living.

Thanks. WEll said. :thumbsup:

[Coyote_Bandit]

13. Living is all about

attitude and willingness to confront challenges.

Lots of people live life to the fullest despite formidable obstacles. I think of a young triple amputee I met in the Dallas airport earlier this year who was going skiing.

It is easy to forget what we have been gifted and to focus on what we lack.

And, yes, sadly I am as guilty as anyone.

[bobbolink]

21. ?????

Was that your way of saying "Sorry to hear you're homeless"?

[Coyote_Bandit]

22. I try to be

grateful for what I have rather than focusing on what I do not have. I am single and long term unemployed (long story) and could rather easily find myself homeless. I remind myself everyday that it is always easier to see obstacles than opportunities. Just how I choose to see the world around me....

[bobbolink]

24. I hope it leaves room for compassion for those of us who are

suffering.

[Coyote_Bandit]

25. Ummmmm

I prefer to be thankful for what I have rather than dwell on what I do not have. I have visual and hearing impairments that limit my day to day activities. But I have all my limbs. I'm in good health. I can reason and communicate. But despite my best efforts I am long-term unemployed. I too could easily find myself homeless.

Trying to see the best in my own circumstances does not impair my ability to recognize the suffering of those around me - or to work to alleviate it. I resent any suggestion to the contrary.

[Bluerthanblue]

10. good point-

yet, while we all 'die'- I believe the death of our physical bodies is not the 'end' of us- which would mean not everyone truly 'dies' (as in ends eternally).

But I like your positive spin-

[Coyote_Bandit]

12. I've always thought

that it takes a hell of a lot more dedication and commitment to live for something than to die for the very same thing.

Not sure where I picked that up.

Physically, we all die. But, yes, our spirit lives on. That is what I believe.

[Blackthorn]

14. What is worth BEING KILLED for?

Nothing.

[Selatius]

15. Money is definitely worth killing for.

Hey, I'm just delivering a message society keeps delivering to my doorstep. Don't shoot the messenger.

[genie_weenie]

16. I had typed nothing but here are the immortal writings

of Dalton Trumbo...

And all the guys who died all the five million or seven million or ten million who went out and died to make the world safe for democracy to make the world safe for words without meaning how did they feel about it just before they died?

Did anybody ever come back from the dead any single one of the millions who got killed did any one of them ever come back and say by god I'm glad I'm dead because death is always better than dishonor? Did they say I'm glad I died to make the world safe for democracy?

So the words about noble deaths and sacred blood and honor and such are all put into dead lips by grave robbers and fakes who have no right to speak for the dead. If a man says death before dishonor he is either a fool or a liar because he doesn't know what death is.

There's no word worth your life

[TahitiNut]

17. Everyone dies. Few have any choice about when.

And when they do, it's about 'earlier' not 'later.' I have absolutely no fear of dying. I only fear that I waste the gift of the life I have - the chance to make a difference for the better. At the same time, I can only guess at what 'better' might be, so it's not in the result that I can measure my choices but in the heart, the soul, in whatever might pass for conscience.

As I've said before, I'm a subscriber to deontological ethics, not consequentialist ethics. There's a bit of a mind-game 'Catch 22' in this, in that the deontologist acts in the faith that "right thinking, right acting" will have a result - a consequence - a 'better' world. For me, the difference is that a deontologist thinks there might be a God - whatever that is - and the consequentialist knows there's a God, and that he's it. (After all, the ability to foresee the consequences of your choices is an ability of a God, right?)

Let's say I 'chicken out' of "doing the Right Thing" at some moment of time, having a well-grounded fear of losing my life. The question, then, is what will I do with that next second, minute, hour, day, week, month, or year that I got in the "bargain"? Another question might be, what did I do in that thirty seconds before I died instantly of a ruptured artery from that unknown aneurysm in my brain? There are no guarantees, you see.

We go from thinking we're immortal to thinking we have some significant choice in how long we'll live - and we call that "growing up." We invest a great deal in that illusion - we think it's worth it. To whom? Of what possible benefit to anyone or anything is an 'extra' year?

That's where our choices lie ... in "doing the Right Thing" and having faith that whatever inner compass we have that points to "Right Thing North" is in good enough condition, with all the times we batter it, that those choices matter.

So, I guess the real question isn't "what's worth dying for?" but "what's worth living for?" and making choices in that instant called the present (a gift) that capture that worth.

For me, at least. YMMV.

[cigsandcoffee]

18. Freedom.

I'd rather be dead than live without it.

[BeFree]

19. Dying for democracy

It has been said that fighting men died for us - for our right to enjoy this democracy. I do wonder how many, in their last breath, pondered that their death indeed was for our democracy?

If it is true this dying for democracy is a noble cause, and that dying for someone else is a noble cause, isn't working to keep democracy alive just as noble?

In fact, living for democracy may even be more noble than dying for it since once dead you can no longer do anything else for democracy.

All I know is that some people have lived for democracy and it is said that some have died for it.... so democracy it is, because everything else is a form of slavery.

I don't plan on dying for it but I will continue to live for it, eh?

[Land Shark]

20. That sounds like an idea we can all support.

[Dem2theMax]

23. This:

[hpot]

26. My favorite pledge

"I have sworn before the alter of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

Thomas Jefferson