How much election fraud will the Republicans do to hold onto Congress?

[Onlooker]

[AX10]

1. It would look to obvious if they steal it.

[magellan]

3. How would it look too obvious?

It looked obvious in '04. But exit polls and so forth can be explained away as we've seen. And you only know for sure how you voted, not how the rest of the country voted.

[mother earth]

11. What? It wasn't obvious in 2004?

They want to stay in power & they will. After the election is what worries me...what's next martial law?

[neoblues]

13. Only being forced to leave incontrovertible evidence...

will give them pause. No degree of the "appearance" of fraud will slow them in any way. They aren't afraid of that and have tossed numerous elections in which the appearance of impropriety has already been very strong. The exit polling of 2004 was just one, and not the strongest, example of this.

Let us not forget either, that they own and control the media--with which they can suppress practically any public reaction, and preceeding that, they own and control (a) key leadership and political positions within and over the Electoral Process in most Elections Boards, (b) key positions of power within and over most of the applicable Law Enforcement agencies (such as the FBI, and local and state police forces), and (c) to a growing extent, the actual Federal (and state) Judges that would hear any such cases.

Besides, much of their 'Fraudulent' practices operate within a grey area in which they succeed in disenfranchising millions but may or may not have broken any laws--and much of this is performed by relatively anonymous individuals who, for the most part, could never be traced after the elections (and would need to be observed and recorded/identified in action during the election).

They are desperate and unscrupulous and also both powerful (well-connected, well-organized, etc), and enabled by great wealth. They will make every possible effort to skew these elections, and with untold millions of dollars behind it, there will be more than sufficient supply of motivated individuals to do it--next to none of whom would give a second thought to breaking the law.

And probably not even last, nor least, the implementation of structural/procedural methods and mechanisms for performing perfectly untraceable fraud in our Electoral System is at an all-time high. It's even been refined and expanded since 2004. No paper trail and techniques by which to prevent detection of any data corruption so as to prevent the possiblity of even being able to call for a recount in those few places where a paper trail exists, means that it can and will happen right under our noses.

Of course the preceding wasn't last, I forgot that even the release of exit polling data and most likely noticably fewer or more secretive exit polling systems will further reduce even the chance of any 'appearance' of fraud. They won't get caught with their pants down like they did in 2004. And as for the final polling numbers the day before the elections--I simply wouldn't be surprised if they haven't found a way to corrupt even most of the standard, common public polling companies... money allows for great corruption.

Was that the last item? Hardly. The American people have become inured, jaded, accustomed to fraud and lies. Release of things like the Downing Street Memo or the fact that it's finally ubiquitously proven that IRAQ had no connection to 9/11 (even by the President's own admission) doesn't stimulate much more than a resounding 'yawn' from the public. They're also accustomed to hearing Democrats "claim" that electoral fraud has occurred, generally when they've just lost. Republicans have no doubt armed their army of celebrity talking heads, news anchors and such, in advance, with carefully designed 'marketing' packages to enable and enhance their ability to belittle, discredit and smear anyone who makes a claim of electoral 'fraud' (thus easily and quickly labelling them as 'conspiracy theorists' and members of the 'tin hat' brigade). No, there's precious little chance that the Public would respond even to "smoking gun" evidence, less chance they'd be confident it was real even if it came to light, and even less chance that any such evidence will be created (so none will be found).

They have the means, motive and opportunity and almost no chance of being caught. They have a history of engaging in fraud. Their motivation for doing so and capability for doing so are both at all-time highs. They simply don't fear and have no cause to fear any "appearance" of fraud (which just gives them the further opportunity to discredit Democrats anyway). Therefore, fraud will be perpetrated.

[Generic Brad]

20. But try they will

This group has absolutely no shame and will make a bald faced attempt to flat out steal the thing just to save their sorry asses.

[Liberal_Dog]

24. Even If It Is Obvious...

the corrupt Media will never report it.

So that will not stop the Repukes.

[OneBlueSky]

40. you think they care if it's obvious? . . .

who's going to call them on it? . . . the Republican Congress? . . . the Republican courts? . . .

that the invastion of Iraq was illegal was pretty obvious -- and they did it anyway . . .

that the tax cuts were giveaways to their millionaire cronies was pretty obvious -- and they did it anyway . . .

that Gore won in 2000 and Kerry in 2004 were pretty obvious -- and they stole the elections anyway . . .

that an illegal or immoral or unethical action is obvious is of no concern to BushCo, because they control everything . . . they'll simply do whatever they wish, let the lefties and bloggers scream their heads off, and just keep on keepin' on . . . laughing all the way to the bank . . .

[KingFlorez]

2. They can't pull it off this time, it would be too obvious

They'd have to cheat in more a lot of places, it would be too obvious.

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. No, it wouldn't. With no real oversight they can get away with

whatever they want and an awful lot of Americans will just buy it as is.

[mother earth]

12. They cheated in every state in 2004? This is different how?

[helderheid]

22. there was a 1200% voter turnout in AK in 2004 - that wasn't obvious?

They can steal it and the media they own won't report it.

[LaPera]

46. You have it exactly...

[AtomicKitten]

4. do you seriously think "too obvious" is a deterrent?

I put nothing beyond their capability to rationalize as perfectly fine in that oh so special god-fearing way that they do. Stealing elections is construed as godly work by some of our American Taliban.

[Imagevision]

5. Whatever it takes to get over... it worked for Bush!

[havocmom]

6. They steal it or they go to jail

Cheney as James Cagney in old mob movie

Ye'll never take me alive, Copper!

They will do WHATEVER it takes. Mushroom clouds not off the table in my estimation.

[Balbus]

7. Boogah, boogah! Election fraud! Boogah, boogah!

[BeFree]

17. Boogah!

The idea that the republicans would steal votes is so 20th century, eh?

Just because they have the Means: corruptible voting machines

and the Motive: go to jail if they get investigated

and the Opportunity: dems are looking the other way - totally,

does not mean they will steal our votes. Geee, you'd think, by the "sky is falling" chicken littles here that the republican'ts can't be trusted.

And we know they can be trusted, don't you think, Balbus?

[Balbus]

18. All we do know for sure, is that the ONLY people indicted and

convicted for election fraud in the 2004 elections have been members of the Democratic party. Whether the Republicans have the means, I don't know. But we do know who has done the deed....

on edit: To answer your question, no, no politician can be trusted - no matter the party. But to have people chasing around after silly election-fraud scenarios instead of concentrating on strategizing and getting the Democratic plan out to the voters plays right into the Republican hands.

[BeFree]

21. Yep

Calling out the thieves is playing right into their hands? That way the thieves can, well, uh.... how's that work?

Oh, you mean that by seeing the reality that the pukes own, operate, and finance the machines, that some people might get distracted? Heh, that's like saying the dems are so dumb they can't walk and chew gum at the same time. Now I see what you mean.

Yep, let's not look at what they are doing with the machines, let's look the other way - give them the benefit of doubt they doubtlessly deserve, and stick to chewing gum alone.

I'm with ya Balbus.... all the way!

[Balbus]

23. Which thief? Name me one person of the Republican party

that's been indicted, much less convicted, of election fraud in 2004. Just one...

[BeFree]

30. Not a one. So far.

It is, like they say, a perfect crime. So far.

But given that the perps are in control of the media, the government, and the courts, it should come as no surprise.

But I see your problem. You say that since no one has been convicted you will not pass judgement. That's cool, but not too bright.

In this thread alone are presented facts that would lead most sensible people to the conclusion that something is seriously amiss with the election process.

But belittling the messengers and furthering the myth that there is no harm seems to be the a dwindling prospect in these parts, and one day the prison door will close on someone, somewhere, then you can be rest assured that we are not barking up the wrong tree, eh?

Until then. Happy (paper) trails to you!

[Balbus]

32. Fair enough. Good luck on the search for your bogeyman.

[SoCalDemGrrl]

36. WTF are you talking about??? Did I mistakenly enter Free Republic???

Please name a Democrat who was charged and/or indicted for stealing

votes in the last election.

[Balbus]

41. Sheila Thomas.

Want a few more? Jesse Lewis, Yvette Johnson, Kevin Ellis... And not just charged/indicted - they were convicted.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1557526&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

[rman]

39. Repubs admitted to Florida 2000 fraud,

DU was founded because of the 2000 election fraud - it's the only large conspiracy about which there is consensus among most DUers (though obviously not all, but then again anyone can be a DUer).

[snowbear]

47. BALL-bus

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. It'll be huge! However, keep working to turn out the vote because

the more involved people become and they hear what most ppl think of the junta, then when the landslide 'win' comes it'lll wake some folks up to the election fraud.

Seriously. Happened with Kerry. A lot of people I know were shocked that Kerry lost because everything on the ground said that ** was going down.

[mother earth]

14. Heck, that disbelief is what brought me here. I kept hoping for

justice that never came & yet I am still hopeful by some miracle we are going to get a lead in the House at least, and yes I will continue to work toward that. But why would they give up their dirty tricks or power?

[guinivere]

10. A limited amount of fraud.

They will save the big kaboom to use at a later date.

[Hotler]

15. The neocons are going to take it and not even hide it...

They're preparing right now with; the testing of military weapons on us, internment camps, and this batch of rules over riding the Geneva Convention and anyone charged under terrorist act will face a military tribunal with no rights at all. The neocons have got to go.

[Wisconsin Larry]

16. There is absolutely no limit to what they will do and what's even worse,

they will get away with it. Our election system is broken almost beyond repair, especially since no corporate media or politician will take it on. Remember the "legions of lawyers" ready to go into Ohio? But Kerry, for whatever reason, didn't pull the trigger.

From "How to Steal an Election" by Andrew Gumbel,

"A few days before the November 2004 election, Jimmy Carter was asked what would happen if, instead of flying to Zambia or Venezuela or East Timor, his widely respected international election monitoring team was invited to turn its attention to the United States. His answer was stunningly blunt. Not only would the voting system be regarded as a failure, he said, but the shortcomings were so egregious the Carter Center would never agree to monitor an election there in the first place. "We wouldn't think of it," the former president told a radio interviewer. "The American political system wouldn't measure up to any sort of international standards, for several reasons."

What, after all, was to be done with a country whose newest voting machines, unlike Venezuela's, couldn't even perform recounts? A country where candidates, in contrast to the more promising emerging democracies of the Caucasus or the Balkans, were denied equal, unpaid access to the media? There were a number of reasons, in the sharply partisan atmosphere surrounding the Bush-Kerry race, to wonder whether campaign conditions didn't smack more of the Third World than the First. Every day, newspapers recounted stories of registration forms being found in garbage cans, or of voter rolls padded with the names of noncitizens, fictional characters, household pets, and the dearly departed. The Chicago Tribune, a paper that knows its voter fraud, having won a Pulitzer for its work on the infamous Daley machine, found 181,000 dead people on the registration lists of six key battleground states."

[Marr]

19. As much as necessary. I fully expect them to steal the elections again-

because there simply hasn't been much progress on the election fraud issue. I'm expecting the Republicans to sacrifice a few seats here and there in an attempt to maintain appearances, but they will *not* give up control of Congress.

These guys break the law *all the time*- even for little things. We've got a president who comes on national television and *brags* about breaking the law, for Christ sake. They'll definitely break any law necessary to avoid losing power. No doubt in my mind.

[GreenTea]

25. without a doubt massive, the republican don't want to face jail time,

hearings, investigations, impeachment, nor lose their fascist government - they will cheat, and lie to hold the majority - It WILL be massive!!!!

[bonito]

26. Dems will win ether or both houses

That's just my gut feeling.

[longship]

27. They can't rig 60-70 races without being totally exposed.

But that's what they'd have to do.

It ain't gonna work this time. Too many places have Dems counting the vote.

[bonito]

28. I agree

I think we will see filibusters, bush rejecting bills, more executive orders, and come 08, McCain over Clinton.

[GreenTea]

31. Absolutely! The republicans have nothing to lose using fraud, cheating,

and stealing...but everything to gain.

People just don't want to believe...Do they really believe it's going to be fair and square with these republican and their Diebold hackable machines? It's not going to be just like they dream...we are talking about fascist who have been in complete control for six years (and working on this for years and years)...They are going steal and use massive fraud...because the Dem's will kick their ass if they don't.

We have to stop hiding our heads in the sand and expose them before it's too late...too late is November 8th - a day after the elections.

[longship]

33. You still don't get it.

There's probably 75 or more races that they'd have to rig. How are Repukes going to accomplish that without having some pissed-off whistle-blower from Podunk, Indiana calling them out? Next, a hungry Democrat district attorney convenes a grand jury and then, the whole thing's exposed.

No. They can't rig it this time. It's just too damned big.

[GreenTea]

45. No, YOU don't get it! Sadly -

All they need is two minutes with any Diebold machine just one machine and the machine can be hacked...four Phillips screws is ALL it takes and from that same one machine it can change ALL the machines connected in that same series or string of machines, it can reverse the vote count in seconds, with no trace...http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marty-kaplan/how-to-hack-a-diebold-vot_b_26301.html

You think it's going to be a Dem cake walk! Just Rove what wants us Dem's all to think - wants us all to believe the polls and put our faith in our votes and NOT focused on the machines---Oh too many, it can't be done-yes, it can very easily, one at a time and they known for month's exactly which one they'll need...they'll be there...All it takes is gobs of money and the machines and the republicans have unlimited supply of both.
http://digg.com/politics/Video_demonstration_of_Diebold_voting_machine_hack

Diebold has, and will have it's personal in voting locations all across the country as needed, as they have in the past They will be there in precincts where they need to hack...it takes only seconds and they've done all over the country before, each two years they get better at it...NO ONE else is allowed to service, fix or adjust Diebold machines, but Diebold technicians, and when a machine goes down as they always do...ONLY Diebold will allow their authorised people to service it...http://www.bradblog.com/?p=3467
http://context.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2006/03/03/120.html

It is a piece of cake, the republicans along with diebold having been working on this for six years 24/7 with all the money they need to pull it off...Do you ever read? They don't have to hack but maybe ten,,,the Dem's need around 15 seats just to break even...so the have to win all their 204 races plus 15 more to break even and then five or ten more to win the House...the republicans Only need to steal a few to keep the House. http://www.boingboing.net/2006/09/13/princeton_researcher.html

http://www.boingboing.net/2006/09/13/princeton_researcher.html

http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/07/dnc_voting_righ.php

Republican don't give a fuck about being exposed...after the election the spin will be on EVERY media Channel how shocked they are the republicans held the majority...spinning Rove/white House bullshit, how the American people decided to trust Bush & the republican with their safety & terrorism...IT'LL ALL BE BULLSHIT!!! But the massive voting fraud will be all over liberal blogs and radio...but like Ohio and elsewhere it'll be too late as it filter's out the republicans are already in office...They know this...they'll control the media...the media will not report it but as a story of bad losers & sour grapes by the Dem's...Of course there will massive and very OBVIOUS fraud...but it will be too late the next day...Say that there is massive electronic voting fraud (and there will be) what in the fuck could the Dem's do the next day (after the election)? The machines have spoken. No way to get an actual count either way, The republicans know this, are counting this and know there's not a damn thing the Dem's can do about it to prove the unprovable,,,without month's of investigation and years have gone by in Ohio and the republican are still dragging their feet....whatever the machines say it's final and they are so fucking easily hackable.

The republicans have NOTHING to lose by stealing it...even if caught, though there is no way anything can or will be done...So what what are we going to do...kick out every suspected republican out of office...there will be no voting machine proof, just numbers on a memory card, that takes two minutes to hack & change....Oh there will be plenty of screaming and maybe even an investigation...But it'll be too late...The republicans have nothing to lose...they can't win fairly and they know it...You think Rove doesn't know it and has been sitting on his ass for six years...they'll even be better at it in 2008...because the Dem's have their heads up their ass and still don't believe it's possible...Wouldn't you do it if you were a republican?

You don't seem to grasp it...these are truly evil, wicked fascist criminals that are now in power...they are not going just leave their power up to the angry voters. Not a chance, when they can very easily steal it as they have in Florida, Ohio, California, Texas, Georgia, Alaska, Maryland, etc...

[longship]

48. Not all the election commissioners in the country are corrupt Repukes

Not all of them are even Repukes.

Not all the districts and counties use riggable machines--the whole state of CT uses the old-type lever machines which are exceptionally difficult to rig.

We're talking about upwards of eighty races (and more every day) which would have to be rigged.

I'll stand by my claim that if the Repukes try something like you claim some election commissioner with a conscience is going to blow the whistle. All a DA has to do is convene a grand jury and the whole damned thing is going to be exposed. That's precisely what happened in 1972-1974. The grand jury in DC had omnipotent powers; they used them; and Nixon was toast.

All this can happen at a local jurisdiction.

What *we* have to do is to volunteer as poll watchers, poll workers, and get reporters to ground zero of this election with cameras and microphones. The local party organizations have to blanket the precincts with such intense coverage in those pick-up districts that the Repukes will be exposed if they try anything.

Please tone down your paranoia. If you're that worried about this, than I presume that you've already volunteered as a poll worker. BTW, I have.

[gkhouston]

44. I expect them to try. And to be outraged when someone calls

bullshit on the results. R's are very good at outrage.

[RagAss]

29. They control reality.....we control shit......massive fraud - of course

[Swamp Rat]

34. They are going to try to steal the elections again.

More importantly, will they be successful yet again?

[SoCalDemGrrl]

35. They're already covering themselves with phony polls saying that things..

aren't so bad for the GOP.

Im really afraid that with a complicit press they will start putting out spin as we get closer

to November that will allow them to steal it AGAIN.

If the polls show Dems WAY AHEAD, then theft is too transparent.

[farmboxer]

37. Repubs Got Away With It Before And I Suspect They Are Planning

to get away with it again! Gore won! Kerry Won! Sen. Clellan Won!, etc.

Damned Republican manufactured and programmed voting machines need to be destroyed! It is time the MSM reports the fraud that has happened!

Dems can with this election. The only thing i am worried about are the machines!

[rman]

38. As much as they think they need,

but they might not get away with it this time around. If only because they're going to need more fraud now than ever before.

[MODemocrat]

42. Repblicans will do anything it takes to keep their power

We've seen what they'll do in the last two presidential elections; How many times in history has the
presidential candidate received the largest amount of the popular vote, yet wasn't allowed to serve as president? The right wing seemingly have the power, that is, by owning the media, and the corporations
to FIX anything, and they will do it again.:mad: :grr: :thumbsdown:

Oh how I wish for someone like HARRY S Truman!

[bamacrat]

43. If we win control.....

of the House or Senate I'll be pleased, if we win both I'll probably shit myself. I dont like doing that so in other words, we might be screwed.